Protret pvp vialbe in 4.0.6?

[zcks]

As for the Op's question, yes it is viable in some specs of arena due to how hard you can lock down a caster (assuming your partner keeps them perma snared).

However blizzard executive designers like GC, kalgan, Tiggole & Furor have never wanted any other spec then holy to be truely pvp viable as far as paladins are concerned & assuming they can ever find a way to nerf it for pvp without screwing up the tanking aspect of prot rest assured they will.

(I just wish they would apply the same logic to other classes but I guess its what we can expect given the history they had when they played everquest)

[sidorbubber]

You can't rely on stats since Protection Paladins are still very rare in PVP. The stats unfortunately don't hold weight. Here's why;
- Tank pvp is still a niche. Its for those that enjoy it.
- Theres a lot more dps in arena, and healers are almost a necessity.

The only time stats are valid is if theres an even number of each spec. Since theres less prot palas, they can't be taken with weight.

Well you absolutely can't rely on stats by worldofwargraphs because 90 % of teams listed there are actually holy (and sometimes ret) teams with paladin person logged out in PvE tanking spec.

As far as I know there are currently only ONE prot paladin in the world at 2200 + both in 3*3 and 2*2 and bear in mind he used 3 DPS team (protret, unholy DK and feral - Destromath USA server). And they have 48 % winratio atm and most likely they succeeded at the start of the season before feral and necrotic strike nerfs and when all had low resilience.

Also there are pretty few prots around 2000 and plenty of them under 1800. And two months of season already passed btw.

Numbers of pve or so called main specs ifluence arena statistic but doesnt define it. Most people want to play really viable specs. Thats why we had protholy abominations back then all around 2*2 bracket and decent protret representation in S7-S8 arena (and most of them were holy and ret rerollers respectively).

Current prot doesnt pocess a burst (like 17k SotR crit on resilient target max with 30k from DPS classes flying around pretty often and I am not talking about oberbuffed hunters btw), it is slowest spec of all paladins and prot survivability is not godly anymore when so called true DPS classes have 15 % damage reduction passive talent sometimes (SP, new boomkin), better defencive CDs (new sacred shield is better then ardent defender, DK CDs are better by far etc) while wearing full pvp gear which prot just cant afford...

Also I really dont understand interpretation of word "viability" for current prot arena used in threads like this.

I have learned so far that actual arena statistic doesnt define it, also paladin gladiators (not to mention lowly duelists like me) opinion shared during beta and actual season doesnt define it etc...

What does prove prot viability now then? Ability to faceroll 2 baddies at the same time at like 1500 rating? Having fun playing this spec? All specs are perfectly viable then.

[t3hj0j0]

Viable is if it can function at it's role at all/nearly all levels of play. Pret functions at it's roleroviding an alternative dps spec for palys to PvP with. Very few pret's actually exist who are dedicated to pret PvP, thus you don;t see many at high levels.

[Kaladarofsenjin]

vi·a·ble   /ˈvaɪəbəl/ Show Spelled
[vahy-uh-buhl] Show IPA

–adjective
1. capable of living.
2. Physiology .
a. physically fitted to live.
b. (of a fetus) having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.
3. Botany . able to live and grow.
4. vivid; real; stimulating, as to the intellect, imagination, or senses: a period of history that few teachers can make viable for students.
5. practicable; workable: a viable alternative.
6. having the ability to grow, expand, develop, etc.: a new and viable country.

I think we all agree #5 is the most relevant definition. Can prot work in an arena? Sure. Will it work as good as a ret at on demand burst or the insane amount of healing healing and support ret can? Nope. Will you be rediculously hard to kill and have way more hp than all the rest of your teammates? Sure. Will you hit 2200? Highly highly unlikely. Will you hit 2k? Maybe. Will you ever be the focus target of a good team? Nope. Will you have fun? Sure if thats what you like to play.

Point is, prot is nothing like it was at the end of wotlk where with a well timed HoJ HotR Sotr AS you could kill a hpaladin(ah that lols that things like that used to get). But if it's what you enjoy its fine, as far as the term "viable" anything can be "viable" but no one seems to specify as to what? Viable=/=Enjoyable. If you view viable as getting gladiator/duelist, no it is not viable. If you view it as having fun. I'd agree to that.

Now if you were on a big RBG as the flag runner, yes prot is still insanely viable for that.

[calixcloud]

Hi everyone, here in the Pally community.
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents as a Prot Paladin PVPer solely doing PVP a little under the last 2 months.
So far it's been extremely fun, random BG's, and 2's arena teams. Rated BG's have been more of a pain in the ass.
Sort of like the raiding level for PVP, where every player has to be 3000+ pvp with 2000+ arena team rating, and the best player in the class ever.
I'd rather just play and have fun, and try to deal with the bumps in the road.
Anyways, I do want to give my point of view on Prot PVPing, as most people in this discussion thread, don't know many prot pvpers in Cata 4.0.6,
or they used to Prot PVP in previous expansions, patches, and arena seasons.

A lot of my prot pally stats and customizations were based on Taugrimm's website.
He has many extensive videos, detailed posts and analysis, and a plethora of avid Pally PVPers (and teammates of Prot PVPers) who make quite a nice community.

I think the problem that a lot of people have with Prot Pally PVPers, is because they are considered a DPS spec, but they cannot keep up in terms of DPS with other pure DPS PVPers such as rogues, feral druids, DKs, etc. That may be true, but we bring plenty of other attributes to the table which I believe make Prot Paladin in arena 2's or 3's, a capable and viable option. Our DG (Divine Guardian), Hand of Freedom, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, and 3 HOP WOGs, are great for mitigation and mana-free healing. In 2's, I make it a priority to stun and slow down whoever's targeting my teammate, and keep an eye on my teammate at all times, so i can instant wog him often, and when he needs it, Divine Plea (cancel to lose the 50% healing nerf), and then heal my teammate again. I always try to WOG as much as possible early in the match, cause often, the other team doesn't try to tunnel me since I am more difficult to kill.

Usually, if the enemy team attacks me, then we'll survive and be able to mow down one of their players. I'll just pop CDs back to back while I continue to WoG myself, using stuns, rebuke, etc. and my teammate and I should have no problem on them. So of course, the other team rarely goes after me. If this is a problem for you as a prot pally. Make your decision on who to attack with your teammate, and always charge in and attack first, with your teammate behind you. Players will have a tendency to go after you since you're the closer enemy to them.;

My teammates usually consist of a Unholy DK or a Fury Warrior, so it's nice to have a dps teammate who can burst very well. Anyways, the Prot Paladin must mitigate damage to his teammate or to himself, in order to survive a match. Once we get down to 2v1, we'll never lose with my heals and wogs. Anyways, Prot Paladins must understand their dps role is primary, but not exclusive. Sometimes healing your teammate with divine lights, or anything else will help. Our worst problem is when we face 2 casters like a lock/mage, or a combination of the sort. Frost Mage/HPally is damn near impossible, and pretty frustrating.

Anyways, if people understand that having a prot pally as a primary DPSer, but also as a damage mitigating and off-healing teammate, than i think people will be more open to playing with them. Yes it is difficult for Prot Pallys to gear up, and we definitely need to increase our DPS. However, I believe it is a fun and capable class to play as or with.

I only started pvp gearing once cata hit, and I'm currently in all 352's, and the conquest wep/shield.
I'm currently at 3400 Resil, about 8.5% crit, 5% hit.

Since I'm new to this site. I am unable to link my player profile.
Look up CalixHaze at Mal'ganis server and I'd appreciate any input.

As of now, I don't have any other Honor Gears to buy. I am currently waiting until next Tuesday, to get the 2-handed conquest weapon
I'm gonna test out the 2-hand protadin spec (macro 1-hand/shield swap right after an ability use, and can macro switch weapons in the middle of a GCD, so not to use it. Doable, but difficult and must need a lot of practice) If the 2-hand protadin spec is only viable in BG's and not Arena, then I'll probably refund it.
However, since I have no other items to get with honor points, I'm thinking of buying up the rest of my holy pvp set. I currently have the shoulder and legs (I did the double resil boost gearing early with low resil, but it hasn't made much sense lately since my STR is too low when I bump up to 3800 resil (from 3400).

Even though I haven't tried Holy Pally PVP yet, I think it makes a lot of sense if I want to further our 2's group. I can switch from protadin PVPer to HPally PVPer which could definitely mess up some teams that we face on the same day. Also, since I have nothing else to buy, I was thinking I might as well buy up the HPally set, since HPally's are so buff and probably the best single player healers right now. Tell me what you guys think about my Prot Pally, and also my ideas with possibly trying 2H Protadin, and also HPally dual speccing to Prot PVP and Holy PVP. Also, in what other ways can I upgrade my Prot PVP set? I feel like I've hit my gear ceiling, and other than waiting on conquest points, there's not much more for me to do.


Let's Pwn These Ally! Cheers!

[Deleted]

Well I first came across the idea of prot pally pvp at Taugrim's site. I hated needing 14 squillion resi to try and survive four nanoseconds aganst high rated arena players in bgs. I played prot warrior pvp through wotlk and enjoyed the tears of many a rogue immensley.
So far, I bgs at least I'm really loving the pally. I can survive enough to wear anything down and have had some very nice 1 v 1 kills, against some well geared players to boot. I'm in a 3v3 team and will be trying it out very soon....we are MM hunter, me and resto druid. We can't lolburst like the pure dps classes nor do we have stupidlol amounts of cc, but what we are good at I've found is being exceptionally good at frustrating the hell out of the enemy!
Taugrim should derserve a knighthood for his site, has really set me on the right track, well done with that mate!

[t3hj0j0]

I don't like 2 hand weapon swap as much as I did before, just because the CS change. If you lose a GCD swapping weapons, and miss a CS, that's a heavy survivability loss. If you miss with yo sword and board still out, you still have that extra defense in melee, as well as the disarm reduction and the extra stam.
As for whats next gear wise: it's all up to you, if you wanna run with your Fury warrior friend, that holy spec is going to be god like, keeping him alive between his ridiculous burst (seriously... 160k in 6 seconds on my 3k res ass... made me sad). Holy also works (slightly less well) with UH. You are good with your 352 honor gear, conquest gear would just be an upgrade to your damage, resil won;t go up more past where you already are.

[Deleted]

I play with another protection paladin as prot in 2v2, and we're doing fine.
Currently at 2100 rating, with potential for more.
There's only 2 things that consistantly beat us:
Frost mages in any combination give us hell, usually a loss.
Highly offensive disc priests with a good dps that ignores armor a lot. Cannot counterheal them for long. (disc/feral/mut rogue)
Also having problems with affliction/resto shaman.
War/healer, DK/healer etc is basicly free loot.

Don't even think of swapping to a twohand as prot, its terrible.
You buy al litte more crusader strike damage with interrupting your aotoattack, losing lots of your defense, and your second (unreliablye) spell interrupt.

[jearle]

I love this spec and have wrapped myself up in it. Taurgrim has been a great influence and I hope he keeps up the good work.

I have played 2v2 arena with a bursty Frost DK just for points and we have done well over the last 2 weeks with very little gear on my part.

The DPS/Tank/Offheal of the spec is extremely fun and if it comes down to 1v1 I can usually beat the other class outside of a couple of course.

The change to HoP generation hurt a little but compared to the WoG swing timer fix, rebuke going baseline , and the CS buff Im loving Prot PvP at the moment.

BGs are probly the most fun where killing 3 v 1s is pretty common with cooldowns. Or getting laughed at by some melee who attacks me at 40% and ends up dying while I have more life than when they hit me.

[Deleted]

If you look at Paladin repartition (source), you'll see that there are about no Prot Pal above 2k2 rating

[Deleted]

me and my 2s partner play 2 prot pallys for lols really we have a 1700 rating atm and tbh the only team we strugle with is shadow play (lock/sp)

can be a bit difficult getting to them sometimes,so i think its very viable i pvp again but i have always thought it was anyway.

quick edit-a little tip id go for the healing 1 handed pve weapon that a bs can make if u can get it u lose a little in melee dps but gain loads from the spellpower to ur heals and spells u use ie-avengers sheild.

[calixcloud]

About the whole weapon swapping situation.

Isnt' the easiest macro to just have a 1-handed weapon/shield macro w/ crusader strike.
And another macro with 2-handed weapon w/ crusader strike?

I kept thinking that using different weapon swaps for each special actions was too complicated.

I've been testing this out. And it's pretty easy.
My mouse is a Logitech Mx1000. and my mouse wheel clicks left and right.
I made the left click of my mouse wheel the 1-hand/shield crusader strike macro.
I made the right click of my mouse wheel the 2-handed weapon crusader strike macro.

1-hand/shield macro
/equipslot 16 Vicious Gladiator's Hacker
/equipslot 17 Vicious Gladiator's Shield Wall
/cast Crusader Strike

2-handed weapon macro
/equipslot 16 Blade of the Fearless
/cast Crusader Strike


This way I don't have to use any other macros for AS or Shield of the Righteous.
Instead, anytime I'm ready to use my Avenger's Shield, i'll just 1-handed macro crusader strike, next and use it. If i have gained 2 HOPO from 2-handed weapon crusader strike. i'll use my 1-hand/shield weapon crusader strike for the 3rd HOPO. and then I'll use my Shield of the righteous.

But also, if you have high health, and you want to continue to just keep raising your vengeance, you can just continue using the 2-handed weapon crusader strike macro, and continue WOGing.

I'm not sure if it was a good idea for me to post this. Haha.. it just seems way simpler than anything else I read about 1-hand/shield and 2-hand weapon swapping. Especially since we have no other special attack move to use to gain HOPO as Prot/Ret Pallys (Holy can gain HOPO from Holy Shock as well as CS).
Let me know if my idea is too simple or just wrong. Thanks

[Deleted]

Weapon swapping is a no-no if you want to play effectively.
You can swap using /equipslot AFTER an attack, but not before.

/cast crusader strike
/equipslot

...works.
BUT: Every switch, you reset your swing timer. If you're switching constantly, you have near zero auto attacks, leaving the damage gain from crusader strikes pointless.
(tested!)
If you don't switch that often, your not flexible enough to use your shield abilities (mainly avengers shield) outside the usual rotational order, which delays the slow / interrrupt when you highly need it NOW.
In addition, your defense suffers of cause, which hurts alot playing double-tank / tank-dps.
tank-healer is usually bullshit, for you won't be able to down ANY team with a healer on board.
Your healer will get trained and die, and you will die shortly after. (or annoy the other team with beating on you for the remaining 30 minutes, but you don't get anything from it, so don't do that)
Only tank/healer comp i see working is disc / blood-dk (dk has icy chains and desecration if specced right, so melee/healer cant focus the priest very well)

@ tonka: using healing weapons is pointless. As far as i know, word of glory scales with EIGHTER attack or spellpower, using the one that's higher.
Boosting your casttime heals is pointless, and you wil do shitty dps.
Go with regular ret gear and onehand/shield (strenght one), and practice some more... you will be able to do very well agains double meleedps as well as melee/healer comps. Getting over 2k rating is easily possible.
But you will learn to hate frost mages with a passion, believe me. (thay can play like crap, and still beat the shit out of prot/prot)