MM and movement

[Jeheil]

Its all very well this simulcraft melarkie and shooting at a target dummy that doesnt move and is over 80% but im wondering if this 'hard' cast AiS is a false dawn. I seem to need to move a fair bit and I wonder if once you factor in movement then this excitement over the Aimed MM may all fizzle out.....and the QQ oh my Lordy we is shizz at deeps may begin.

I think we need to discern if MM with Arcane Focus dump will be > Survival in many cases.... as Aimed Focus dump will not be used for enough of the fight.

Now firstly, I qualify things by saying im no spring chicken anymore and I probably cant pull of perfect rotations etc, I do try not to move and try to be situationaly aware / aspect dance.

But lets look at our 3 Raiding domains.

There is ALOT of movement out there in raid land, 3 or 4 bosses in Black Rock and similar in TB. I mean this is the expansion that if nothing else was sponosred by void zones, electricity and standing in fire.

BR
Magmaw...i tend to be on well/add duty so surely SV will be the one here.
Omnitron...lots of movement in general and again ranged on add duty for toxes adds....move to puddle of pew pew....spread out for litghning....
Artemedes....moving here when he flies and dodging sound....so will MM with AS > SV ?
Maloriak...SV for adds I suspect
Chimer...this one is lovely pew pew MM Aimed I suspect
Nef...not there yet.

TB
Harf-arse - Reasonable amount of repositioning, getting out of fire, knockbacks, I would imagine a fair amount of Arcane focus dumping needed here
The two dragons - Lots of movement here in not phase 1, some movement in phase 1 to dodge purple shizz and stack for buff
Council - Lots of movement again, wind, grounding...however burst phase at end should very much suit Aimed
Cho'gall - Again 50% movement I think, chasing adds, grouping up, praying, interupting.

Conclave
3 Genies - Should be ok for Aimed....movement not to bad, killing adds will now need single targetting...but that should be ok
Al-Jizerah - LOTS AND LOTS of movement in phase 1, phase 2 should be friendly to aimed, phase 3 alot of movement

So in summary....with aspect dancing we became a very versitile on the hoof dps class, our dps has been high coz we do it on the move, I hate to be the one to pee on the happy-fire....but the false god of aimed shot isnt as sexy as it looks. Simulcraft, FD, Target dummies dont move, they dont make you move and they dont knock you down.

I suspect it will be SV for adds fights, MM by small amount > SV on movement fights and MM by heaps on the 1 or 2 standy still fights.

Now gear/gemming/regorging may be quite different between the two specs as well.....so thay could mean gimping SV a fair whack further unless you have 2 gear sets.

[Ezethal]

Yeah I feel like MM will def suffer for movement fights
Blizz needs to make Aimed Shot castable while moving in Aspect of the Fox

[Bellatrex-Saga]

jeheil... i was thinking the same thing too - i think all the rejoicing over aimed shot hard cast might be a big premature... i dont see how it can be accomplished in a vast majority of fights

[NeVeRLiFt]

Yeah I feel like MM will def suffer for movement fights
Blizz needs to make Aimed Shot castable while moving in Aspect of the Fox

Thats would be amazing for PvP...

[Tyronbiggum]

All the points you bring up are valid. I agree 100% but I have 1 issue that maybe someone whose raided with the new MM can answer. Our only shot that we need to stand completely still to fire in MM is AiS obviously. If you can apsect dance for on the move SS thats great but I'm sure majority of the time we will want to be in Hawk. I am speaking out of school here but I don't see how taking the time (2.4-2.9seconds) whatever the casttime is now without any sort of haste increase will be that difficult. I am currently at council/ Chimeron/ and Al and I am not disagreeing that dps will most likely drop from moving but it seems like there will obviously be points in which you can fire off a hardcasted AiS and then continue to move. Again I haven't been in raid since the new MM but thats just my guess.

Has anyone raided with the new MM that can help me out?

[Deleted]

Good hunters stutter step and disengage to move around before this patch.

Good hunters stutter step and disengage to move around after this patch.

I think its a small price to pay for a single cast that hits like a TRUCK. You'll be laughing in pvp when your buffed AiS crits take off 1/3rd of a person's health, for example.

[Soisoisoi]

Good hunters stutter step and disengage to move around before this patch.

Hahaha, nice joke :')

That was a joke, right? "Hunter" and "good" in the same sentence..? D:


All jokes aside, this is kinda true, on fights with movement Disengage should really help. I'm surprised AiS isn't on AotF, though. They should just put all the moves onto it and make AotH a lot better so you really do have to choose.

[Jeheil]

With you Tyron. So take Council...as that is where you are, in phase 1, where you deeps one (and help burst the shield) other than being waterlogged or carrying the fire/ice bug (and the odd knock back from the boss) one will be able to sit in hawk and hard cast.....now phase 2....your pretty much goosed....as for at least 50% of the fight you will either be chasing a cloud or a grounding or chasing the target (that is in turn chasing the tank). In phase 3 our hardcast Aimed Shot will be teh sex (as long as your raid kites the boss in a banana shape so all deeps can indeed deeps).

Chimeron is also easy for Aim....however Al is terrible in phase 1 (where u need most deeps), magmaw, halfass etc are horrible too.

Aspect dancing is a skill to learn...before you learn it..it eats up concentration....and if u macro it...you can easily by accident have no aspect as if you cast the apsect shift while something is 'happening' you end up with no aspect......

My point is....by the time we factor in say 50% movement....our sting dropping off multi targets....no aoe....the this mew oh my look on this target dummy im better than my old SV....is pants.

With SV, its more forgiving, I could pretty much do close (im not very good and I live too far away from the interwebs for good ping) to my optimum rotation.....with MM I think this is less likely....as a result.....SV or a less forgiving Arcane dumping MM may bring more consistent Deeps.

Heres my wager though. By the end of the month the hunter community will be sad panda's as in your average 10 man....for teams in the 9/12 to Heroic progress area (where most raiding guilds are now)...your average recount on non stand still like a rock fights will be

DK
Druid
Mage
or Lock
Hunter by a good % or 2
Tank
Tank
Healzx3

---------- Post added 2011-02-09 at 02:03 PM ----------

You can of course mitigate the movement with stutter step and disengage....however you cant do either in many cases.

On the drakes in TB....in the void zone you need to group up with ranged to absorb meteor strike and when the VZ appears you need to move ASAP out of it.....you cant be fiddle farting about....if you do....you cause your healer to heal you more than you should. As guilds progress minimising raid damage is very important.

On Al'Jizera...you need to strafe with the whirlwinds and then avoid wind buffets....not something overly suited to stutter stepping or disengage.

So yes a good hunter can out dps an average hunter....who in turn renders a better dps than a bad hunter....but this will be true naked...unspec'd and level 1. And is over no any real contribution to any conversation...its very much a epeen comment.

[XAmsterdamX]

Good hunters stutter step and disengage to move around before this patch.

Good hunters stutter step and disengage to move around after this patch.

When you cast AiS (or SS) you need to stand still for 2.4 seconds so you can't really stutter-step, at least not as we did before.

More likely in fights where we move around a lot we'll switch to AotF and use an AS/CS rotation.

[Tyronbiggum]

Thanks for the in depth description Jeheil.

Much appreciated