i dont see a point why people scream nerf shields, whole tree is balanced around one ability, so if healing meters had not display absorbtion, this topic probably wouldn't exist if you alter shields in any way it will probably hurt disc priest in many ways you people can't even predict yet!i have a feeling majority of "crybabies" here don't even play priest since "im on top of metters now, but i don't wanna be" just isn't in human nature if u ask me. i personally don't want to see shields nerfed since i have a 2x healing spec (holy/disc) both suited for pve where i use one more appropriate for encounters. disc was underachiever before patch and now it shines, deal with it. PW:S is a core disc ability, we spent A LOT (15 or 17) of talent points to boost it to maximum effect, don't believe any other spec invest so many points into just 1 spell/ability and thus it must be good. either make disc tree not so dependant on shield or shut up, nerfing absorbtion or adding an extra CD on existing CD isn't a solution! make love, not troll wars!
And people, imho, missunderstands the role of disc. It's to prevent and absorb damage with shields and to heal. Not ONLY to prevent and absorb damage with PW:S. We got Divine Aegis too. We can reach Inspiration, too. We can heal large ammounts of HP stacking Grace, etc. But all this tools are useless and unused because PW:S is OP.
Last edited by Eldarc; 2011-02-16 at 10:15 AM.
it's all personal preference, believe me i (10 man) heal with shaman/druid or 2x shaman and just spamming bubbles all day isn't getting me nowhere. i have to heal, a lot. im using all spells when situation demands it, i see shields just as extra ability i can use when things get bad. don't know exatcly how things look like in 25mans, but jumping into conclusions with new tier we can/will spamm shields even more is just that, a conclusion. shamans are not shining atm thus i have to give birth to several solutions as a main tank healer and help with raid healing when i can. therefor its personal preference how you play disc, it depends on encounter and raid healing setup. shields are just fine at least in 10 mans
There is a difference between 10 and 25 man raids though. In 10 mans, you have to do other things then just PW:S spam. PW:S only prevents the damage, anything over that has to be healed, thus requiring use of other spells. However, in 25 man, there are 2-3 other raid healers that can "heal" the raid while the Disc priest bubble spams. That is why it was so effective in WotLK, and why it is so effective here in 4.0.6 for 25 mans.
As I have called for, and other people, Blizzarrd needs to ad a DA spell ONLY, not tied to a heal, that will do mitigation, but not have to spam 1 ability for mitigation. The problem is in the math.
5x1.5= 7.5 Sec
125k Mitigation in 7.5 sec
PoH + DA (rounded numbers pre nerf - more like 7k now)
5x10k + 5x2k = 50+10 =60k heal/mitigation in 2.5 sec
130k in 5 Sec. (2 stack DA)
However, shields will last 30 Sec, and DA is only 12.
For sustained AoE, PoH + DA wins, for 30 sec burst AoE, PW:S wins.
I don't heal STUPID, Stupid SHOULD HURT!
Syntyche - Disc Priest
As I've said I don't like to put it in the same terms since what itll cause is the issue including " Shielding tops the meters " or "Shield spamm" is king. I haven't stated that either of doing or not doing is the correct or incorrect way of doing things it's just that this debate probably favors the raiding environment more than other situations. Shield spamming sure is overwhelming and effective, but if we were to nerf it what would we do about the remaining left out terms that exist? Lvling, PvP, mana cost while dungeon lvl'ing at low lvl and many more.
I believe blizzard isn't looking at what current problems are in PvE terms only which people probably seem to stay stuck with but there are many left out sources that probably would get hurt as well.
But in terms of the thread there are several discussions and I'm not favoring one another just trying to get people realize that there is so much more to it than just what we're at and that debates should meet one another and not take ill from another one's post. I don't direct my comments to anyone except that I may answer the arguement.
I probably gone abit off than what I was going to from the start but oh well.
To get back on topic, bubble spamm isn't viable if we're minding the different terms of lvl'ing, low lvl dungeon or low lvl raiding ( yes there are probably twink guilds out there ). But for end game PvE content it certainly become an option with the current changes but I wouldn't really focus this perspective since the patch changes given aren't old enough to actually give a good judgement of the situation.
For the discussion Absorb is not Healing , or " It is too " like I said want in my own personal opinion categorize it differently to face each and another's perspective since there are so many others out there saying there are, yet there aren't. Then if we put it the way: You have bad HPS. Well then look at my absorbtion. Or: Your absorbs suck. Then look at my healing. This way you can add 'em togheter at that point instead of leaving it in a bunch making it harder to judge causing counterarguements saying something completely off leadin astray from the original point.
But that's me, you may differ.
---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 12:53 PM ----------
I heal regular 10-man content on my disc priest typically with a holy paladin and holy priest. Here are some of the factors that hinder my ability to be able to spam shields efficiently and effectively:
- No MTT
- No Innervate (aside from an extremely rare one from our feral tank)
- No Replenishment
- No 4pc T11 set bonus
- Lightweave instead of Darkglow (less net regen)
- Power Torrent instead of Heartsong (less net regen)
- 4 pieces of 'non-spirit' gear, 2 of which are reforged to spirit, 2 to other throughput stats
- Throughput reforged with a bias towards haste, which is lower net HPM than mastery
- Average ilvl 358 (no heroic raid gear). 2201 unbuffed spirit, 13.66 mastery (34%)
Last night I decided to personally test the sustainability and effectiveness of of what shield spamming my gear would allow, being in a 10-man guild with moderate gear (no heroic ) and just about as bad a setup as possible for mana regen (only available external supports were BoM and the holy priest's HoH). I did use spirit consumables along with JoAR and of course IW to make up for some of these shortcomings, and figured to go a little crazy with the shields on fights that held no challenge. Unfortunately my ISP (would you believe I use an archaic EVDO cellular aircard) decided to reinforce the fact that "America's Most Reliable Network" might be "Most" but certainly isn't "Completely" for a reason as it collapsed to an even slower snail's pace for date and then died after we'd completed just a couple of bosses, but we did get two before 'Can you hear me n----'
ODS: I cast PW:S x 107 over a 5:53 ODS fight, an average of 18 shields / minute, so just shy of every other GCD over the course of the encounter. Total shield absorb + glyph heal was 2407426, and across 107 casts that's an average of 22.5k effective healing per cast (not including any DA from glyph crits). Historically healing done was fairly balance across the three healers. In this instance, my shield and shield glyph heals (not including DA from glyph crits) did 37% more healing than all of our holy priest's efforts, and 44.5% more than those of our holy pally. These are both very skilled players - outhealing them by spamming a single button is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Magmaw: I cast PW:S x 85 over a 5:40 fight, an average of 15 shields / minute. Total shield absorb + glyph heal was 2177354, and across 85 casts that's an average of 25.6k effective healing per cast (not including any DA from glyph crits). Shield healing was less in comparison to the other healer's efforts this time, but still was competitive in and of its own.
Mana wasn't trivial to manage by any stretch but neither was it hopeless. With any regen boost, be it Innervate, MT, Replenishment, or finally seeing 4pc bonus, it would become notably easier - and again, I've not prioritized regen on my gear, nor mastery which would increase the HPM and HPS of those shields. The amount of team effort required to maintain damage control with me (semi-intelligently, I like to think) hammering away on shields was laughably lower than a 'well-balanced' approach. Simply put, I would be diminishing our chances of progression by ignoring the impact that proper shield spam can have.
Some are arguing that if you don't like it, don't do it - you don't need to... What you like has to be tempered by what is most effective and how much you want to progress. Most guilds would have taken a good deal longer to get their first LK kill if they'd said to their priest 'nah, just stay holy' or 'just keep as disc but don't worry about blanketing against infest if you don't like that style of play.'
But liking or not liking it is irrelevant as regards Blizzard's likelihood of addressing the feasability of shield spam; for them it's just a matter of whether they wish to maintain or recant their design philosophy as regards healing and their desire to avoid it continuing or reverting to what it became in late WotLK, the spamming of one's highest HPS spell.
---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 01:12 PM ----------
The cost of Power Word: Shield is being increased by 33%. While we wanted Discipline priests to be able to utilize this spell more often and with better results, we also did not want it to be the main spell (and often the only spell) used while in groups. We don’t find this to be a particularly compelling playstyle and have found that it encourages players to avoid using other spells such as Penance. We believe that using a shield in a tight moment is totally appropriate, but we don’t want it to be incredibly efficient to do so with more frequency than that.
Last edited by Bigslick; 2011-02-16 at 06:17 PM.
"Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."
Hope it doesnt fuck pvp
brb, respecing holy
This is warranted. Disc priests shouldn't be able to spam shields. (Although it was nice while it lasted).
Yes,(1) Did or did not the Blizzard developers explicitly state that relying nearly exclusively on one spell for healing was a mistake and not their intended design?
(2) Is or is not using PW:S for nearly every GCD relying nearly exclusively on one spell for healing?
(3) Therefore, is or is not using PW:S for nearly every GCD against the intended design explicitly stated by Blizzard developers?
And that's all there is to it. Blizz doesn't like one button healing. Maybe this will last long enough until we're starting t13 content. Maybe not, and it'll need another knee-jerk hotfix. Who knows?Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
But the point of this thread is now over--Kel
~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~