Obtaining Hit Rating Goal

[gualdhar]

The more people post about goblins and worgens 1% haste/crit, the more I think this was the most brilliant Lets-Get-Money-From-Race-Changes ever.

Worked on me.

[latzko]

People are way too obsesed with this question. Dps only increases theoreticaly with INT>HIT. Going for aditional 200int over 200 hit won't increase your DPS by much... I personaly go for hit cap. Before anyone says any shit how I'm stuck with "hit mentality", I'll rather have pretty stable dps then depend on RNG.

[Agallochh]

Worked on me.

My brother bought me mine for xmas

[Meejum]

Well I think I finally found a way to resolve it based on going "side-grade" with a couple blues and carefully planning future upgrades. Added +hit blue PvP gloves that actually have a bit more INT than my previous blue gloves and after I run a few more instances I'll have a headpiece that can replace my current headpiece and it will have enough Hit to allow me to drop the one Hit gem I had to pop in.

So I guess the real answer is that I needed to plan upgrades better and look at what side-grades would compliment new upgrades.

Thanks again to everyone that offered help and advice!

You could drop your therazane ring for the dragonmaw ring, as a side grade. You will lose crit, meh, but gain hit and mastery

[Cluck]

The more people post about goblins and worgens 1% haste/crit, the more I think this was the most brilliant Lets-Get-Money-From-Race-Changes ever.

I was "smart" and worked around that. I just leveled a goblin from 1 to 85 instead.

[andromalia]

People are way too obsesed with this question. Dps only increases theoreticaly with INT>HIT. Going for aditional 200int over 200 hit won't increase your DPS by much... I personaly go for hit cap. Before anyone says any shit how I'm stuck with "hit mentality", I'll rather have pretty stable dps then depend on RNG.

Math is math. You are personally losing dps. The int>hit debate is moot. If you aren't prioritizing int you're doing it wrong. My dps is plenty "stable" without being capped.

[Jmickey]

The more people post about goblins and worgens 1% haste/crit, the more I think this was the most brilliant Lets-Get-Money-From-Race-Changes ever.

Sounds to me like someones jelly :P

I personally just think goblins are awesome, the 1% haste is just an added bonus.

As for the hit thing. It's not RNG, it's math. Int is far and above every stat for us at the moment, simple as that. There is no debate, people are entitled to opinions, but at the end of the day your wrong. Never sacrifice Int for hit unless your ok with doing less DPS than you should be.

[Rexus]

Well I enchanted boots and bracer for 50 hit each and got my hit back to 1690 (16.50%) so still a bit short. We have a raid tonight so I'll see how it goes. But I'm still sitting on my T11 gloves or robes because if I equip either of those I can barely reach 1500 without gemming for it.

16.5% hit isnt perfect but its close enough that the vast majority of your spells will hit. Im running about the same thing right now, but if your really worried about it you could eat hit food for raids..

---------- Post added 2011-02-14 at 11:39 AM ----------

People are way too obsesed with this question. Dps only increases theoreticaly with INT>HIT. Going for aditional 200int over 200 hit won't increase your DPS by much... I personaly go for hit cap. Before anyone says any shit how I'm stuck with "hit mentality", I'll rather have pretty stable dps then depend on RNG.

I think in most cases its a balancing act. You need to be close enough to the cap that most of your spells will hit, but to sacrifice int for hit once NEAR the cap is a bad idea. I do believe there is a thread either on MMO or EJ that talks specifically about not dropping your int for hit.

[gualdhar]

I think in most cases its a balancing act. You need to be close enough to the cap that most of your spells will hit, but to sacrifice int for hit once NEAR the cap is a bad idea. I do believe there is a thread either on MMO or EJ that talks specifically about not dropping your int for hit.

Its actually been beaten to death in both places. The difference is EJ starts passing out infractions like candy whenever anyone brings up a settled discussion and vomits all over the forums with bad info. We try to be nicer and just verbally harass them.

[Killainstnct]

Sounds to me like someones jelly :P

hes just jelly that gnomes no longer have their "I'm the small race" factor :P

on topic: It is really difficult going from the BC/Wrath mentality of 17%hit(used to be 14% with FF/Mis) to realising that hit isn't the be all end all stat that it used to be, but numbers don't lie.

Question though for jmickey, andromalia or gherkin if they do read this again - is there even a point where hit becomes more valuable than int, and if there is - is it possible to simulate where that point is/has that point been found already? (i'd imagine this wouldn't really affect this tier of raiding, but I'm just interested to see if there is such a point)

[Khadjid]

Question though for jmickey, andromalia or gherkin if they do read this again - is there even a point where hit becomes more valuable than int, and if there is - is it possible to simulate where that point is/has that point been found already? (i'd imagine this wouldn't really affect this tier of raiding, but I'm just interested to see if there is such a point)

The question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway.

As long as there's such a thing as reforging, intellect will always be better than hit, but hit will most likely be ahead of your other secondary stats until hit capped. Even if you had come to a point where you were unlucky enough to not have single hit item, you'd still have 15-17 items with other stats that could be sacrificed for hit and with every single item reforged to hit you'd probably be at 10-12% hit chance. I haven't done any testing at that low hit ratings, but chances are you'd have at least 3-4 hit items that would get you above 14-15% hit and at that level I know intellect is better than hit.

[andromalia]

hes just jelly that gnomes no longer have their "I'm the small race" factor :P

on topic: It is really difficult going from the BC/Wrath mentality of 17%hit(used to be 14% with FF/Mis) to realising that hit isn't the be all end all stat that it used to be, but numbers don't lie.

Question though for jmickey, andromalia or gherkin if they do read this again - is there even a point where hit becomes more valuable than int, and if there is - is it possible to simulate where that point is/has that point been found already? (i'd imagine this wouldn't really affect this tier of raiding, but I'm just interested to see if there is such a point)

You can take a simcraft profile and keep knocking off hit and test this for yourself. Use my guide if you need help.

[Falconys]

Since my main is a JC I don't have an issue gemming my gear, but I think not gemming for hit is a bit misleading and possibly an anachronistic view. Partly because I have noticed that some blue sockets seem to have an intellect bonus, and partly because hit is now a blue gem... and there is nothing else in a blue gem for us except hit (spell pen if you PvP, but thats not my flavor anyway). Intellect/Hit hybrid gems would be better of course, but that still leaves you reforging to get hit capped on much of your gear.

As far as not mainitaing the hit cap goes... for me thats not an option because I tend to not notice when things fall off like dropping Immolate because Hand of Gul'dan missed or failing to reapply corruption immediately if it misses. People with better awareness would have less of an issue though.

[Culexus]

People are way too obsesed with this question. Dps only increases theoreticaly with INT>HIT. Going for aditional 200int over 200 hit won't increase your DPS by much... I personaly go for hit cap. Before anyone says any shit how I'm stuck with "hit mentality", I'll rather have pretty stable dps then depend on RNG.

Bolded the word theoretically because its simply wrong. Getting int over hit is in fact and ingame increasing your dps. Period.
Sure (and that was stated a bazillion times in a bazillion threads) if you go for hitcap at the cost of int you will still do competitive dps. All math includes the situation where you miss an important spell because you are not hitcapped and Int is still ahead.
You could also argue you value haste over hit because you like casting fast. That does mean you arent itemising your character to the optimum. See where i try to get?

[grimdok]

Given a PvE 346 blue and a PvE 359 purple, the purple is always going to be better due to the higher int (assuming non-trinket). You should never be using a heroic blue item if you've got a purple for the slot. About the only time you might have to actually run the numbers is with PvP gear; a PvP purple will have higher INT but loses half its secondary stats to resilience.

I follow the conventional wisdom (Int>Hit) and it's done wonders for my personal DPS, and missing a couple times over a several-minutes-long encounter is not going to kill you.

[Jmickey]

Question though for jmickey, andromalia or gherkin if they do read this again - is there even a point where hit becomes more valuable than int, and if there is - is it possible to simulate where that point is/has that point been found already? (i'd imagine this wouldn't really affect this tier of raiding, but I'm just interested to see if there is such a point)

I made a chardev profile with only 300 hit, the way I believe SimulationCraft handles it his by decreasing it by 300 and calculating the DPS loss per point. The scale factors concluded that int, even with the profile reaching 0 hit, was still ahead.

Int: 2.8031
Spellpower: 2.1502
Hit: 2.0123

From this, i would say that there really isn't a point where hit gets better than Int in terms of the DPS gain vs. the DPS loss from reduced hit.

[latzko]

Bolded the word theoretically because its simply wrong. Getting int over hit is in fact and ingame increasing your dps. Period.
Sure (and that was stated a bazillion times in a bazillion threads) if you go for hitcap at the cost of int you will still do competitive dps. All math includes the situation where you miss an important spell because you are not hitcapped and Int is still ahead.
You could also argue you value haste over hit because you like casting fast. That does mean you arent itemising your character to the optimum. See where i try to get?

And have you read the rest of the post? You do understand how they get their simcrafts? You do know game is a different thing then simcraft and math. In the fight, you cast, for example, incinirate 100 times. Now, due to RNG and not being hit capped you might hit all or miss many. If you have like 2% chance to miss and you miss 4-5 times your dps will be less then the guy with hit cap. See where I'm going? In math and sims they do like 10k casts or long fights, where the miss % is really close to your miss %. You see the point of my theoretical statment?

I'm not saying hit cap is omfg-most-imporant stat. I did tests after 4.0.6 to play around with hit when, did 6 tests as destro (3 capped, 3 int focused). While hit capped over 5min fight i did an average 16k dps, with int focused gear (at cost of hit) I had ~15% hit. I did 14.5k dps on one fight, 15.5k 2nd and 16.4k 3rd. You probably know how annoying it is to miss immolate, soulfire or conflagrate... RNG is a bitch, and I simply don't like it.

[Deleted]

i managed to reach 30.01% haste rating and 15.35%hit in half heroic/epic gear...but i had to sacrifice some int, about 150-200....is it worthy to do so?

[Culexus]

And have you read the rest of the post? You do understand how they get their simcrafts? You do know game is a different thing then simcraft and math. In the fight, you cast, for example, incinirate 100 times. Now, due to RNG and not being hit capped you might hit all or miss many. If you have like 2% chance to miss and you miss 4-5 times your dps will be less then the guy with hit cap. See where I'm going? In math and sims they do like 10k casts or long fights, where the miss % is really close to your miss %. You see the point of my theoretical statment?

I'm not saying hit cap is omfg-most-imporant stat. I did tests after 4.0.6 to play around with hit when, did 6 tests as destro (3 capped, 3 int focused). While hit capped over 5min fight i did an average 16k dps, with int focused gear (at cost of hit) I had ~15% hit. I did 14.5k dps on one fight, 15.5k 2nd and 16.4k 3rd. You probably know how annoying it is to miss immolate, soulfire or conflagrate... RNG is a bitch, and I simply don't like it.

As i said if you want it go for hitcap at the cost of int (because you hate missing) and you will do competitive dps. If you are min/maxing you dont do that ... never. Simple as that.

What you are forgetting in your last paragraph is that the differences can come from human error. Aka not always hitting the right spell at the right time and from lag perhaps. We dont know. The fact is when you are gemming full int over hit ALL of your attacks are hitting harder. If you miss that one spell you mentioned you lose some damage. But it is made up with the big number of other spells that did hit and did more damage.

Also the point why hit isnt better than Int anymore isnt because of class mechanics. Its because before you needed to sacrifice much less for getting hitcapped because it is MUCH more hit rating required now regarding item budget points than before.

[andromalia]

And have you read the rest of the post? You do understand how they get their simcrafts? You do know game is a different thing then simcraft and math. In the fight, you cast, for example, incinirate 100 times. Now, due to RNG and not being hit capped you might hit all or miss many. If you have like 2% chance to miss and you miss 4-5 times your dps will be less then the guy with hit cap. See where I'm going? In math and sims they do like 10k casts or long fights, where the miss % is really close to your miss %. You see the point of my theoretical statment?

I'm not saying hit cap is omfg-most-imporant stat. I did tests after 4.0.6 to play around with hit when, did 6 tests as destro (3 capped, 3 int focused). While hit capped over 5min fight i did an average 16k dps, with int focused gear (at cost of hit) I had ~15% hit. I did 14.5k dps on one fight, 15.5k 2nd and 16.4k 3rd. You probably know how annoying it is to miss immolate, soulfire or conflagrate... RNG is a bitch, and I simply don't like it.

None of us are holding a gun to your head forcing you to play correctly. Continue to do what you are doing, even if it is wrong. At the end of the day, none of us really care what you do.

---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 09:56 AM ----------

I made a chardev profile with only 300 hit, the way I believe SimulationCraft handles it his by decreasing it by 300 and calculating the DPS loss per point. The scale factors concluded that int, even with the profile reaching 0 hit, was still ahead.

Int: 2.8031
Spellpower: 2.1502
Hit: 2.0123

From this, i would say that there really isn't a point where hit gets better than Int in terms of the DPS gain vs. the DPS loss from reduced hit.

It's based on the delta that's set but iirc you should be right on as far as the defaults go. I had thought about simming a 0 hit set...looks like you beat me to it.