Poll: How strong is you "faith" in Blizzards ability to design WoW?

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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Do you still think "Blizzard knows best"?

    For a long time while playing WoW, I honestly believed that Blizzard knew their game better than anyone else, especially the community. Ghostcrawlers long insightful posts proved that he had foresight and information we as a community could only dream of. After all, Blizzard was (and still is) capable of accessing a lot more information about the game and its players, despite the community having stepped up the game.

    When Blizzard refused to bow to QQ, then it was often because the designers knew that specific problems would eventually fix themselves eventually or that they were blown out of proportions for other reasons. Sometimes Blizzard could forsee that changes to one class would also effects another classes relative performance or predict certain developments that rendered the complaints obsolete.

    However, around the time of WotLK Beta, my image of the "wise Blizzard crew" slowly begang to melt away amonst the vast number of glaring imbalances and oversights.

    Now with 4.06, these feeling have reached a tipping point. I honestly believe that the "smart" part of the WoW community knows better what is good for the game compared to the designers themselves. The community has a better understanding of game-mechanics, what real issues are and which ones are blown out of proportion. It feels almost like the crew managing this game now is less experienced, foresighting and "wise" than the crew was 4 years ago.

    Do you still have faith in Blizzard, that they know better than everyone else, what is good for their game? (I realize that it is open for debate, what might be considered "good" for WoW)
    Last edited by mmoc433ceb40ad; 2011-02-10 at 02:12 AM.

  2. #2
    I feel like i have no control.. If my class needs a buff or a nerf just adds to the challenge...Personally i dont mind changes(thats a lie sorta ... i just feal i have no control so i have no problem with changes) even if certain classes are broken or just to good i just play the game and enjoy myself ...there is always something new to do

  3. #3
    I've never thought that the designers know more than ALL the players. The vocal minority is generally idiotic in their QQing, and shouldn't be given any attention, but a lot of raiders and competent PvPers know a hell of a lot about this game, and I've seen a lot of ideas that could fix long-standing problems get overlooked by the design team simply because they come from an outside source. It's always seemed to me that boss design, class balance, and overall gameplay are largely dependent on trial and error. While I don't believe that the players would necessarily do a better job (in fact, they wouldn't, it'd be terrible), but no, the designers cannot possibly always be right, and they have proven that throughout the game's history.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    For a long time while playing WoW, I honestly believed that Blizzard knew better than anyone, especially the community, what is good for the game. Ghostcrawlers long posts proved that point, proving he had insight and information we as a community could only dream of. After all, Blizzard was (and still is) capable of accessing a lot more information about the game then the community, although we have certainly stepped up the game.

    When Blizzard refused to bow to QQ, then it was often because they knew the problems would eventually fix themselves (as they sometimes do). Sometimes Blizzard could forsee that changes to one class would also effects another classes relative performance.

    However, around the time of WotLK Beta, my image of the "wise Blizzard crew" slowly begang to melt away amonst the vast number of glaring imbalances.

    Now with 4.06, these feeling have reached a tipping point. I actually honestly believe that the "smart" part of the WoW community knows better what is good for the game than the designers themselves. It feels almost like the crew managing this game now is less experienced, foresighting and "wise" than the crew was 4 years ago.

    Do you still have faith in Blizzard, that they know better than everyone else, what is good for their game? (I realize that it is open for debate, what might be considered "good" for WoW)
    u couldnt say it better....

    i completely agree... when i look around other people with their classes... i just ask.... why?

  5. #5
    Obviously they dont know whats best considering they practically retool every class once a month.

  6. #6
    The problem is those 'smart' players are extremely biased toward their class, level of play, and how they play the game (raids/pvp) and with that tend to very easily overlook aspects of the game that the developers keep in mind. I'm not saying all the players are like that, but most of them definitely are, and any balancing issue that they foresee being able to fix has some other aspect of the game that it would effect that they don't consider because it doesn't effect them.

    There are questionable things that blizzard does, but I honestly can't say that any part of the community is really that more rational in thinking about the game as a whole and would be able to make changes to the game that would be of a greater benefit than the developers could come up with.

  7. #7
    Its because most of the oldschool devs like Tigole and Furor who are gamers by heart, left the WoW team to work on blizz new MMO.

    Thats why most of todays descisions are more based on byrocratic benefits (pleasing X playerbase) rather then whats really balance of ability's/skill.

    There is no "deal with it" factor in WoW, just hope your class is not number 14 red on the World of Nerfcraft roulette table.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Omns131 View Post
    Its because most of the oldschool devs like Tigole and Furor who are gamers by heart, left the WoW team to work on blizz new MMO.
    And people bitched about them constantly when they were around.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Stevegasm's Avatar
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    One of the things that Blizzard does well is not bend to "QQ" quickly. If something comes across as overpowered, they choose to let the game play out a bit to see if players can come up with a counter. It's probably easiest to see this style when it comes to StarCraft II. The reaper rush was a great example. It was overpowered, yes, but they didn't nerf it right away. What they found was that it could be countered, but only by the most skilled players. The balance issue here was that it was an easy opening for Terrans to pull off, but it required a lot of skill to counter for Zerg players. While fine in the higher leagues, this created problems in the lower ones. Which also leads to the fact that Blizzard tries to cater to all levels of play when possible.

    Though, you are right, OP, that the crew now is probably less experienced. Blizzard, I'm sure, has their big guns developing their new MMO, while they have a 'lesser' crew keeping WoW going.

  10. #10
    for the most part.. maybe its the players that don't understand how many different types of players play the game..

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Stevegasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    And people bitched about them constantly when they were around.
    Who could forget Kalgan and the conspiracy theory that warriors will never get nerfed because he plays one.

  12. #12
    I disagree with some of their decisions, but at the end of the day they know a shit load more than I do.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevegasm View Post
    Who could forget Kalgan and the conspiracy theory that warriors will never get nerfed because he plays one.
    Almost every complaint on the forums can be summed up as follows...

    Dear Blizzard,

    Nerf paper. Scissors is fine.

    Love,
    Rock

  14. #14
    You've got to be kidding me with these posts, Blizzard knew best 4 years ago? Back when hybrid classes could only heal or tank, and were completely useless as dps? Or are we talking about BC where Warriors were overpowered in arena and were always in the highest brackets? Perhaps it was when Vanilla raiding required you to have absolutely no life to see new content and for progression. (MC to Naxx, all of it was a pain in the ass, progression meant not going out at night and staying on the computer every hour possible to get passed Grobbulus or Twin emps or attempting C'thun)
    Yes those were the good old days... give me a break.
    Last edited by Zeta1125; 2011-02-10 at 02:36 AM.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by sicness View Post
    The problem is those 'smart' players are extremely biased toward their class, level of play, and how they play the game (raids/pvp) and with that tend to very easily overlook aspects of the game that the developers keep in mind. I'm not saying all the players are like that, but most of them definitely are, and any balancing issue that they foresee being able to fix has some other aspect of the game that it would affect that they don't consider because it doesn't affect them.
    I agree that from a bystander point-of-view, it must seem difficult to wade through the vast amount of comments and QQ on the forums. However, if you spend enough time playing the game and visiting the forums, as you'd expect most CMs and Blizzard employees do, you get a pretty good feeling for what is a sincere comment, and what is trolling/ranting/venting/QQ.

    Take arenajunkies.com for example: While a single poster might have a personal agenda (buff my class), there will be just as many people countering that issue if it becomes a point of debate. Because, believe it or not, most high-rated players want a balanced and fair game for all participants, rather than being overpowered themselves. It's more important to listen to the general "hum" of the community, than it is to listen to individual voices.

    Example 1: There are many posts about Heroics being too hard, and a lot of comments (rarely actual debates) of heroics being easy (people using little/no CC and a lot of AoE). Personal gaming experience coincides with the general opinion that heroics are fairly well-balanced. Hard for some, but easy for competent players. Therefore they fulfill their purpose well. No need for drastic changes.

    Example 2: Warrior burst is too high was a frequent complaint during the first few weeks of the game. However, Warrior PvE damage was low and arena representation was declining. Ergo, Warrior burst QQ was partially due to a lot of people having low amounts of resilience early on in the game. This was something Resilience would partially fix. Additionally it would have made sense to remove Recklessness or move damage from abilities to white-damage/DoTs. Instead, Warriors got some totally unwarranted mobility nerf.

    Most of the intelligible posters on various forums agreed on this. And then there's the PTR to test out these changes too. But instead Blizzard had plans of their own...and these plans just made no sense to anyone.
    Last edited by mmoc433ceb40ad; 2011-02-10 at 02:38 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta1125 View Post
    You've got to be kidding me with these posts, Blizzard knew best 4 years ago? Back when hybrid classes could only heal or tank, and where completely useless as dps? Or are we talking about BC where Warriors were overpowered in arena and were always in the highest brackets? Perhaps it was when Vanilla raiding required you to have absolutely no life to see new content and for progression. (MC to Naxx, all of it was a pain in the ass, progression meant not going out at night and staying on the computer every our possible to get passed Grobbulus or Twin emps or attempting C'thun)
    Yes those were the good old days... give me a break.

    This man speaks the truth...

    You can't relish on the nostalgia, and call it great. It really wasn't. It was a shit game, with a couple of good perks. Yes, the community was probably better, but you can't expect 12 million players to all act civil and helpful.

    That's what you get for playing a MMORPG.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Juri's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I'm not a wrath baby who crys that things are to hard.

    I may get annoyed at the decisions they make but ya know what? this isn't a singleplayer game they have to staisfy MILLIONS of players and that's just never going to happen.

    Classes get nerfed people cry

    Classes get buffed people cry

    Dungeons are hard people cry

    Dungeons are easy people cry

    Welfare epics are handed out people cry

    It's a never ending cycle blizz will never be 100% spot on and I doubt anyone here could please MILLIONS Of people all at once.

    /Thread

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    For a long time while playing WoW, I honestly believed that Blizzard knew their game better than anyone else, especially the community. Ghostcrawlers long insightful posts proved that he had foresight and information we as a community could only dream of. After all, Blizzard was (and still is) capable of accessing a lot more information about the game and its players, despite the community having stepped up the game.

    When Blizzard refused to bow to QQ, then it was often because the designers knew that specific problems would eventually fix themselves eventually or that they were blown out of proportions for other reasons. Sometimes Blizzard could forsee that changes to one class would also effects another classes relative performance or predict certain developments that rendered the complaints obsolete.

    However, around the time of WotLK Beta, my image of the "wise Blizzard crew" slowly begang to melt away amonst the vast number of glaring imbalances and oversights.

    Now with 4.06, these feeling have reached a tipping point. I honestly believe that the "smart" part of the WoW community knows better what is good for the game compared to the designers themselves. The community has a better understanding of game-mechanics, what real issues are and which ones are blown out of proportion. It feels almost like the crew managing this game now is less experienced, foresighting and "wise" than the crew was 4 years ago.

    Do you still have faith in Blizzard, that they know better than everyone else, what is good for their game? (I realize that it is open for debate, what might be considered "good" for WoW)
    WoW has died since TBC to me, I'm waiting for Diablo 3. Might quit wow and join RIFT for something new :S

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer
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    Played WC III and the CM's there were nice and were able to take "threatening jokes" and the develops listened to feedbacks on balances and such.

    Now with WoW I think they became "assholes" since they are making tons of money. You can easily get banned on the forums, the CM's sometimes do not give you a good answer on changes, and the balance team *cough* GC just randomly changes mechanics that has been fine for years.

    I have no idea where this game is going but, im going to just take long breaks till content patches roll out as there isn't a point on doing hard modes. The gear you get in hard mode may make the next content easier but like always, that hard mode gear will be replaced.

    In Warcraft III your hard work I guess getting the icons and a good w/l ratio kept you motivated to play. In WoW I guess if your not into achievements or did everything it gets boring idk,

  20. #20
    I honestly think that the game is very balanced atm. Few problems.

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