Need Expert Druid Tank Advice Please.

[Stevoman]

oh, so what works when you and your healers are undergeared doesn't work better when you and your healers are better geared? Your logic is infallible good sir

Question: Why hasn't Sejta gemmed differently now that they are no longer below expected gear level (as he's wearing all BiS as are the vast majority of his healers)?

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying and he is 100% correct.
http://theincbear.com/agility-stamina-breakdown/
You go survivability because you need at least a 525k survivability cap so you don't get blown up by a bad RNG melee swing from heroic Nefarian. Even geared the way he is, Sejta is still below the recommended 525k survivability cap for Nefarian (he has 523k in his gear), and Rawr correctly shows this by suggesting he gem full stamina. Unless you're tanking heroic Nefarian and need a 525k survival soft cap (highly doubtful), then you should go mitigation.

Seriously, run a simulator before shooting your mouth off, because you just look like a fool who's ignoring the theorycrafting.

Edit: Bheta, I plugged you into Rawr and it suggests enchanting armor on your back/gloves, and gemming agility/agility+stam/agility+dodge. This will decrease your total health by ~6k, but will also decrease the damage you take by ~500 per boss swing (assuming reg 10m Atramedes, which is what I assume you are progressing on at 6/12). Which means if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds, you've already saved your healers a ton of mana and lowered their blood pressure substantially.

[Jodah]

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying and he is 100% correct.
http://theincbear.com/agility-stamina-breakdown/
You go survivability because you need at least a 525k survivability cap so you don't get blown up by a bad RNG melee swing from heroic Nefarian. Even geared the way he is, Sejta is still below the recommended 525k survivability cap for Nefarian (he has 523k in his gear), and Rawr correctly shows this by suggesting he gem full stamina. Unless you're tanking heroic Nefarian and need a 525k survival soft cap (highly doubtful), then you should go mitigation.

Seriously, run a simulator before shooting your mouth off, because you just look like a fool who's ignoring the theorycrafting.

Edit: Bheta, I plugged you into Rawr and it suggests enchanting armor on your back/gloves, and gemming agility/agility+stam/agility+dodge. This will decrease your total health by ~6k, but will also decrease the damage you take by ~500 per boss swing (assuming reg 10m Atramedes, which is what I assume you are progressing on at 6/12). Which means if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds, you've already saved your healers a ton of mana and lowered their blood pressure substantially.

Thank you much sir. I'm not that great at running simulators couldn't exactly back up what I had said but I'm pretty good at understanding the theories and reasons. Your explanation was much better than my own

[mlc]

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying and he is 100% correct.
http://theincbear.com/agility-stamina-breakdown/
You go survivability because you need at least a 525k survivability cap so you don't get blown up by a bad RNG melee swing from heroic Nefarian. Even geared the way he is, Sejta is still below the recommended 525k survivability cap for Nefarian (he has 523k in his gear), and Rawr correctly shows this by suggesting he gem full stamina. Unless you're tanking heroic Nefarian and need a 525k survival soft cap (highly doubtful), then you should go mitigation.

Seriously, run a simulator before shooting your mouth off, because you just look like a fool who's ignoring the theorycrafting.

Edit: Bheta, I plugged you into Rawr and it suggests enchanting armor on your back/gloves, and gemming agility/agility+stam/agility+dodge. This will decrease your total health by ~6k, but will also decrease the damage you take by ~500 per boss swing (assuming reg 10m Atramedes, which is what I assume you are progressing on at 6/12). Which means if the fight lasts longer than 12 seconds, you've already saved your healers a ton of mana and lowered their blood pressure substantially.

This. As well as running with amazing healers that's able to manage their mana and amazing dps that's able to take minimal raid damage.

The suggestion to gem for agility/dodge is targeted towards an average bear, and an average bear is assumed to be running with average healers and average dps's, who aren't as good at mana management and dodging raid damage, respectively.

If the OP is running with amazing healers and amazing dps then by all means gem/enchant/gear for stamina since your healers can manage to keep you up and heal the unavoidable raid damage without going OOM mid fight. But since your healers are complaining that you take too much damage then I'd assume that they aren't that good. So you should gem/enchant/gear for agility/dodge to minimize your damage taken.

[mascaron]

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying and he is 100% correct.
http://theincbear.com/agility-stamina-breakdown/
You go survivability because you need at least a 525k survivability cap so you don't get blown up by a bad RNG melee swing from heroic Nefarian. Even geared the way he is, Sejta is still below the recommended 525k survivability cap for Nefarian (he has 523k in his gear), and Rawr correctly shows this by suggesting he gem full stamina. Unless you're tanking heroic Nefarian and need a 525k survival soft cap (highly doubtful), then you should go mitigation.

Seriously, run a simulator before shooting your mouth off, because you just look like a fool who's ignoring the theorycrafting

Weird, he never gemmed agi before that point either. I wonder why that is? inb4 "cuz his healers are amazing and his dps dont stand in things so his healers can be more amazing!" ah crap already been said. Too bad your simulator doesn't take into account every single person in your raid and how much they are likely to mess up... making that point completely irrelevant.

You're looking like a fool who's ignoring the world around them and getting tunnel vision while looking @ theorycrafting.

[mlc]

Weird, he never gemmed agi before that point either. I wonder why that is? inb4 "cuz his healers are amazing and his dps dont stand in things so his healers can be more amazing!" ah crap already been said. Too bad your simulator doesn't take into account every single person in your raid and how much they are likely to mess up... making that point completely irrelevant.

You're looking like a fool who's ignoring the world around them and getting tunnel vision while looking @ theorycrafting.

Before that point he gemmed stamina to maximize his survival cap since he doesn't know what he's walking into.

[Kagonos]

Weird, he never gemmed agi before that point either. I wonder why that is? inb4 "cuz his healers are amazing and his dps dont stand in things so his healers can be more amazing!" ah crap already been said. Too bad your simulator doesn't take into account every single person in your raid and how much they are likely to mess up... making that point completely irrelevant.

You're looking like a fool who's ignoring the world around them and getting tunnel vision while looking @ theorycrafting.

While we're on the subject of ignoring things and looking like a fool, here's what was actually stated:

"You go survivability because you need at least a 525k survivability cap so you don't get blown up by a bad RNG melee swing from heroic Nefarian. Even geared the way he is, Sejta is still below the recommended 525k survivability cap for Nefarian (he has 523k in his gear), and Rawr correctly shows this by suggesting he gem full stamina. Unless you're tanking heroic Nefarian and need a 525k survival soft cap (highly doubtful), then you should go mitigation."

Do you see what he did there? More importantly what he DIDN'T do there? He didn't mention anyone's healers. He pointed out WHY sejta is gemming pure stam. Maybe he could have gone a step further and explained what a "525k survivability cap" meant, but I think he's got sound logic. And, once again, we need to point out to certain people that it is not helpful to recommend that we look up a druid in a top guild who is doing heroic end bosses. IT'S NOT FUCKING RELEVANT TO A GUY WHO IS 6/12 NORMAL.

To reiterate several posters: gems should be agi or agi/stam for reds, agi/stam or stam for blues and dodge/stam or dodge/agi for yelllows. Reforging should be: dodge>mastery>crit/(expertise)>hit>haste. Target gear with mastery/crit and reforge the crit to dodge. Otherwise reforge the stat that's lowest on the priority list above to the highest stat from the same list.

[Deleted]

Maybe you should take a look @ Sejta ( http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sejta/advanced ) He's Paragon's main tank and I think he knows what he is doing .

Ofc he does , for progression in heroics mode while being decked in epix and as such his base stats (dodge , armor etc) are way higher as most of us at our level. he also wouldn't think a second on reforging regemming and reenchanting his gear depending on what he is tanking.
We shouldn't compare ourselfs to him and blindly follow what ever it is he is doing but gem , chant and reforge according to our progress.

[Stevoman]

Do you see what he did there? More importantly what he DIDN'T do there? He didn't mention anyone's healers. He pointed out WHY sejta is gemming pure stam. Maybe he could have gone a step further and explained what a "525k survivability cap" meant, but I think he's got sound logic.

Sorry, I should have expanded on that.

Rawr's survivability cap is how much unmitigated damage you can take wtihout heals before you die. Reg Nefarian hits for something like 120k every 2 seconds. With a 525k survivability cap, that means you can soak up 5 melee swings on reg without any heals before you die, or in other words you can last ~10 seconds without heals, dodges, or SD procs. I'm not sure what Nefarian hits for on heroic, but from what I've heard, it's safe to say much harder than 120k. And that doesn't even take into account the fire breaths. Sejta gems for pure survivability so he cake take more than two melee hits without getting gibbed. Think 25m TOGC Gromak before outgearing the fight. The OP is not taking anywhere near that much damage, and will not for quite some time.