Stop crying about Aimed Shot?

[Koumaru]

Yes, because that comparison clearly makes sense.

That's the point. It's the exact same logic you clung to when you blew up in the OP about how ridiculous it is that MM hunters would expect not to frequently use their "signature" ability (Aimed Shot) in a dps rotation. You stated that such a claim would be analogous to a SV hunter whining about having to use Explosive Shot to dps.

Well guess what "signature" ability BM gets at level 10...

Stop trying to use a casted shot during a mobile phase? Use AS/CS when you have to move. Sorry to break it to you, but not every boss fight will have ideal conditions for the optimal DPS rotation/priority shots.

Well aren't you an adorable out-of-context quoter! *pat pat*

Learn to aspect of the fox..... tough concept isn't it?

Yeah, because that really helps you use Aimed Shot while moving. Try it out.

I so totally wasn't replying to a post wherein a guy was suggesting using Aspect of the Fox to overcome the issue of Aimed Shot being unusable while moving. But thanks for the info about using Arcane and Cobra during movement phases! I so totally didn't know that already, either!

Where are you getting this information, straight from your butt? The math I have seen shows Survival BARELY below Marks in terms of single target DPS. For fights with AoE, Survival actually pulls ahead. Next tier of raiding might be different, but as it stands now, Survival is viable and provides competitive DPS.

Yes, SV is situationally competitive in AoE encounters. It's also close to MM in high-movement fights (but still below it). I'd like to see that "math [you] have seen" that shows SV close on the heels of MM, however. My claim about their relative performance must come from my butt (which apparently must be where the ElitistJerks and Femaledwarf servers are located -- I should see a proctologist), but your similarly unsubstantiated one should be taken as gospel!

You are the best troll ever. Will you be my friend? I have candy!

---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 07:30 PM ----------

Here is proof, folks! On a non-movement boss fight without adds, a survival hunter is theoretically lower than MM.

Next step: Find that fight in current raiding-tier. I'll be over here raising a kid while you look.

Note that entry labeled "Hunter_MM_T11_372_Arcane." That's the simulated dps output of a Marksmanship hunter using Arcane Shot as a focus dump and saving Aimed Shot for "Fire!" procs only. The "old" MM rotation pre-4.0.6. This rotation suffers no dps loss during movement beyond the AP drop from switching to AotF (a penalty shared equally with SV).

On movement fights, the optimal dps of a top-geared MM hunter falls somewhere between that number and the "Hunter_MM_T11_372" value at the top of the list.

Note the presence of "Hunter_SV_T11_372" some ~3000 dps down the list.

[Bootycus]

I find it kind of funny that in order to be a good "Marksman" you need to have AIMED precision in all of your SHOTs. Instead we have a bunch of people complaining here that we have to stop to cast our signature ability in MARKSMANship. If you want to spam instant casts, stay SV, if you want to be a MARKSMAN, play MARKSMANSHIP.

[Agroculture]

So, as a frost mage, where were your shields?

What does that have to do with anything?Some idiot said that 70k burst in one global (hardcast aimed+chimera fire at the same global) was not possible on 3k+ resilience,I provided a screenshot (not mine btw,I play Rogue,it was posted yesterday in the PvP forum),said idiot went away and now we get other Defenders of the Stoopid to question it.

[Tunak]

Aimed Shots critting 41k to a mage with 3110 resilience is not OP at all, and shooting 30k Chimerashot crit instantly after AS aint OP either. I mean its only 71k burst dmg. Seriously, why do these people even cry?



U c what I did there?

That's a HUGE over-exaggeration.

[Warlight]

"If you don't like MM. Then get out of it."

[darkwarrior42]

@OP: I eagerly await the thread in which you assert that Pyroblast is changed such that it should be hardcast for fire mages. Why do I await this?

The truly ridiculous thing about this complaint is that the ability is the CORE ABILITY learned when picking up Marks. It's like arguing that Explosive Shot does too much damage for Survival and should barely be used. This is completely ridiculous. I honestly have no other words for this outside of ridiculous.

Pyroblast is the CORE ABILITY learned when picking up Fire. Therefore, it should be hardcast, right?

Edit: For the record, I have no issue with aimed shot on my hunter. The only thing I would like to know is whether this is what Blizzard intended us to be doing or not.

Normally, I would say that the reduction in the cast time means that this is intended, but given Blizzard's absolutely horrendous track record in balancing changes I'm not so sure. Specifically, their almost chronic inability to see the consequences of their changes beyond their explicit intent gives me pause. I would not be at all surprised to learn that they changed the cast time for lower levels so you had something to do with aimed shot before you get the Master Marksman talent, buffed the damage thinking to give Marksmanship a bit of a buff through Aimed Shot procs, and completely failed to consider the ramifications of Marksmen hardcasting the spell.

Yes, it should have been blatantly obvious. At least one of the hotfixes they pushed since the patch was to fix a bug they'd been told about for weeks on the PTR. Divine Plea went live the first time with a 20% penalty, and then we found out we weren't supposed to be casting it without making a decision, as if 20% was actually going to stop us. I could cite a thousand other examples that all say the same thing: when Blizzard implements a change, they have a very specific viewpoint in mind, and often completely fail to take other viewpoints or possibilities into consideration.

[flovust]

Guys guys... dont forget... fury warriors that can still kill someone in 2gcd!

[5648945621]

Maybe because it does too much damage? Whats so absurd about complaining about that? MM burst is retarded now.

[Psilar]

@OP: I eagerly await the thread in which you assert that Pyroblast is changed such that it should be hardcast for fire mages. Why do I await this?



Pyroblast is the CORE ABILITY learned when picking up Fire. Therefore, it should be hardcast, right?

Edit: For the record, I have no issue with aimed shot on my hunter. The only thing I would like to know is whether this is what Blizzard intended us to be doing or not.

Normally, I would say that the reduction in the cast time means that this is intended, but given Blizzard's absolutely horrendous track record in balancing changes I'm not so sure. Specifically, their almost chronic inability to see the consequences of their changes beyond their explicit intent gives me pause. I would not be at all surprised to learn that they changed the cast time for lower levels so you had something to do with aimed shot before you get the Master Marksman talent, buffed the damage thinking to give Marksmanship a bit of a buff through Aimed Shot procs, and completely failed to consider the ramifications of Marksmen hardcasting the spell.

Yes, it should have been blatantly obvious. At least one of the hotfixes they pushed since the patch was to fix a bug they'd been told about for weeks on the PTR. Divine Plea went live the first time with a 20% penalty, and then we found out we weren't supposed to be casting it without making a decision, as if 20% was actually going to stop us. I could cite a thousand other examples that all say the same thing: when Blizzard implements a change, they have a very specific viewpoint in mind, and often completely fail to take other viewpoints or possibilities into consideration.

First intelligent post in this thread that hits on the core issues. With talents that make AiS instant and Chimaera...and neither being used in the rotation sounds broken. I'm thinking this was an oversight. Low lvl MM is kinda spammy towards Arcane shot, and the change to cast time was probably meant to fix this. Well at least I hear the dps between the 2 rotations is fairly close, albeit one being more complex. I would stick with the instant Aimed, and SS/CS rotation...but that's just a hunch.

[Deleted]

How are you going to make a proc that takes 5 stacks of a buff that has a 60% chance of proccing off ONE of our attacks work in a rotation?

[Goretex]

"If you don't like MM. Then get out of it."

Think I might.

[Deleted]

I want the old aimed shot back I could 1-shot most mages back in vanilla (with no resillience)

But that's just me being nostalgic

If you wanna change something because it's OP, go to the official forums and make some constructive feedback, and don't just moan. Bashiok will find you!

Hahahahaha. I love people who are bad at lying. Resilience in Vanilla, made my day.

[Dunee]

the annoying part is we get a 1 2 1 2 kind of rotation where chimera shot only is worth casting for refreshing serpent sting once there is 2sec left.. the fact that we hit for shitloads is cool and all.. but it feels clunky as hell..
I would love if they dumped the cast time of aimed shot a bit, together with the dmg, and upped chimera in return

[Marthisdil]

Hahahahaha. I love people who are bad at lying. Resilience in Vanilla, made my day.

Hahahahaha. I love people who are morons. Here's his quote:

"I want the old aimed shot back I could 1-shot most mages back in vanilla (with no resillience)"

He is stating the following:

1) He wants the old Aimed Shot back
2) He could 1-shot most mages back in vanilla
3) He stated there was no resilience back in vanilla

Please go back to school.

[Deleted]

Hahahahaha. I love people who are morons. Here's his quote:

"I want the old aimed shot back I could 1-shot most mages back in vanilla (with no resillience)"

He is stating the following:

1) He wants the old Aimed Shot back
2) He could 1-shot most mages back in vanilla
3) He stated there was no resilience back in vanilla

Please go back to school.

Sorry, cba to go to the same school as you apparently went to. Deciphering fucktarded post is not a fun subject to study.

[Blacklisted]

I still don't get this.. you guys are crying about a lack of mobility, have you completely forgotten how we used to be? Were you guys complaining about SS as well? Aspect of the fox made it A LOT easier, yes, but we did fine without it back in the days!

back in the day we didnt have focus so u didnt have to use steady shot for pvp, unless u was in a bg and could get in a rotation like a pve boss. marksman is just lame, disable your account like all the hunters are doing right now. they will never get hunters right.

[harky]

That's a HUGE over-exaggeration.

That isn't an exaggeration at all. My Aimed Shot pushes 65k crit. 3110 Resil is ~34% damage reduction so a 31k Crit isn't even the top end. Similarly my Chimera crits for ~45k which means 30k is pretty close. So yes, a 71k burst on 3.1k Resil is possible and not exaggerated. My DK is my main for PVP and with 3.7k Resil I've been hit for bursts of ~60k from Hunters.

No one else is putting out this kind of burst. Yes, that includes Fury. They can do similar burst perhaps once every 2-3 minutes and you can prevent it with dispels. Hunters? Well, just hope you're not in line of site for more than ~1.7 seconds because we can throw out that burst every 9-10 seconds without much problem. If we actually set up an Aimed -> Aimed! -> CS we can drop many classes from 80%. Anyone not in Resil? Have fun getting crit for 50k even by Hunters in blues. We're a lot like Warlocks in mid-Wrath who could global players in PVP gear. Hunters were weak in PVP, but this isn't the answer.

[Koen]

Because you have no other option as a hunter but to roll Marksmanship and hard cast Aimed Shots? My head just exploded.

Not trying to troll you here but if your head exploded already by that comment then I believe you haven't been along this community for long enough yet.