1. #1
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Solid Advice for a Priest guildie

    Last week I had this holy priest join our guild because I said we could really use a priest for raid heroic modes etc, we currently have myself (pala), resto druid and shaman healing. Anyway we bring in this priest and he's doing like 6k HPS on most encounters, and we're saying "you cant be serious?". He did push 7k.... but that was making him oom. Now sure this in my view is just a bad player, so anyway we gkick him and a casual priest in our guild who is pretty new to priests said he'd like to help us out, he geared up in full heroic gear and a few epics to help him for raids in a matter of days. So we said, sure we'll test you tonight on a few encounters, he pushed around 6k also, and I'm thinking "wtf?" The resto druid is doing about 11k hps, myself anywhere around 12k or so and the shammy about 9-10k. Last I heard priests are doing huge amounts around 12k+.

    Is there a way I can help this priest out instead of saying "lol you suck", because I'm sure he'd like to get better as he geared up just to help us out come heroic raids. As far as I hear from members, he's doing excellent healing in 5man hcs, but in the raid tonight I was not impressed.

    Anyway what I'm asking is there any good website maybe or something he could really get a good look at that would help him? I know EJ is there and this place, but is there any really special resource you guys use as a holy/disc priest? Or some solid advice I could give him without saying "lawl l2p".

    Log from Magmaw 10N:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7/?s=645&e=935

    Log for Omni10N (think he went disc for this one)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1378&e=1732
    Last edited by Azshira; 2011-02-09 at 11:47 PM.
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  2. #2
    Log parses would help in order to see what he's doing. As to a good resource for discussion and information for holy / disc priests, there's a pretty obscure one I stumbled across here.

  3. #3
    Posting a parse would help a ton with people helping you here at MMO. Honestly there isn't a "best" answer to every situation to help an under-performing priest.

  4. #4
    If you have logs, posting a link here would be a quick way for someone here to see if he's using the wrong spells.

    Edit: Of course 2 people would post the exact same thing as me while I'm typing.

  5. #5
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Ah yes that would be good I'll add them into my OP 1 mo

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-09 at 11:48 PM ----------

    Done, added into my 1st post. Im clueless about priests, other than shadow.
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  6. #6
    Ask him to take renew off of his bars and see what happens...


    Tell him to use prayer of mending on cooldown, circle of healing whenever more than 2 people have taken damage, and use prayer of healing when magmaw does his lava spew.

    For disc, he needs to be using penance ALOT more as well as a couple of poh for both the heal and the nice DA bubbles.
    Last edited by cotton; 2011-02-09 at 11:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Tell him to forget EVERYTHING he learned in LK, because that seems to me like the mindless dumb LK spellspam.

    Holy: Unless the fight is aoe-heavy, he/she should be in Chakra:Serenity. Keep a renew ticking on the tank(s) and just refresh it with a heal. Use the holy word, use PoM on cooldown as long as 2+ players are taking damage, same applies to CoH. Use PoH when 3 or more players are taking damage. Try not to use flash heal at all unless necessary and don't use the Holy Word: sanctuary (aoe heal) in 10man raids, there are really too few situations where it's worth the manacost. Renew and the Holy word: Serenity spell (and shield if necessary) are your friends when moving around. PoM/CoH aswell unless they're one cooldown. However renew-blanketing the entire raid like that is plain stupid, make him never do that again.

    Discipline: Use shields, spam penance, use inner focus wisely and use Prayer of Healing when it is efficient. Really can't say that Discipline has too many good spell options. The shield and penance are nice, and then the normal heals are a fair bit worse. Don't spam shields like mad, you'll go OOM very fast unless you have 2 shamans, priests and a few druids backing you up with MTTs/Innervates/Hymns
    Last edited by Archicortex; 2011-02-10 at 12:13 AM. Reason: typos

  8. #8
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Thank you I'll pass those suggestions on
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  9. #9
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't think many of the above suggestions were good.

    First of all, let me tell you that a priest at his gear level might be able to push 10k on heavy AoE healing fights, but generally priests HPS is not that high compared to other classes, however, they push out more healing.

    The problem in the log (only looking at Magmaw), is that he's using Renew for almost 70% of his spells.
    It should be between 25-30%, so he is basically not doing anything but pushing Renew. He needs to use Circle of Healing, Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending and Heal a whole lot more.

    I'll show my own guilds log as example - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-np...s=9694&e=10010.
    Magmaw is a very AoE healing intensive fight as you know I'm sure, so here I tend to use more AoE heals than I use single target heals like Heal and Renew. As you can see, the end HPS output ends up being only almost 8k, where of I was topping at 12k solid effective at the best point of the fight. He needs to pick his spells better, 'cause this is a classic case of lack of engagement. He needs to be more invested in what's good and whats not, that seems to be the lacking part here.

    As it was mentioned earlier that he needs to use PoM on cooldown - it's not true. Using PoM on cooldown will in 95% of cases just result in overhealing and therefor a waste of mana.

    Hope this was helpful.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Funny how it's always "friends" or "guildies" of priests asking for advice .
    Anyway, from the Magmaw log: He's relying way to much on Renew. It's a good spell, but he's been using it wrong. Tell him to just keep it up on the tanks, and otherwise cast it if he has no other option (should be rare). He might have to consider the use of Divine Touch because of this. It also looks like he hasn't used Binding Heal once, which is a great spell on Magmaw (at least on 10 man). As a general remark to your raid, USE THE LIGHTWELL!
    Retired Holy Priest
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  11. #11
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Funny how it's always "friends" or "guildies" of priests asking for advice .!
    I actually am his friend and guildie lol ^^

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 01:29 AM ----------

    Thanks for additional advice
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  12. #12
    Renew is good to cast on people who are stable, but low on health. It's a great spell to cast while moving. Magmaw is a good example of a fight that Renew sees some use since people will typically be damaged while you're running from point A to point B. That said, I really don't think Renew should be higher than 15-20% of his breakdown. PoH is definitely your bread and butter for dealing with raid damage but with the recent CoH buff it should be used whenever possible if people have taken damage.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...?s=6218&e=6635
    That's my breakdown for our most recent Magmaw kill, and one of the most ridiculous nights I've ever raided.

    Also, in raids, I spend the vast majority of my time in Chaka: Sanctuary. Chimaeron is an exception, and Blue phase Maloriak sometimes if I'm not Discipline for that fight (I think that one is fun and plays to Disc's strengths).

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Funny how it's always "friends" or "guildies" of priests asking for advice .
    I usually check when these posts are made. These posters frequent other class forums and post about their class, so it's fairly easy to tell who they really mean (and it's actually the truth most of the time!).
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  14. #14
    Field Marshal ibprofin's Avatar
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    From what I've experienced trying to heal as holy is... difficult, mainly cause I'm MS shadow.

    OT: Just tell them to read the holy guide on this website, its really in-depth and very useful. Also don't forget for disc absorbs aren't counted in the logs. If they read the guide and still don't know what do to, then they're just bad.

    Also are you having 4 people heal in a 10 man raid? Because if you are then he probably has nothing to heal at all, and just sits there and over heals. 3 healers pulling 10-12k hps in a 10m is more than enough. I'd wager to say the dps/tanks are doing something wrong if you're still dying.
    Last edited by ibprofin; 2011-02-10 at 07:41 AM. Reason: spelling
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  15. #15
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibprofin View Post
    Also are you having 4 people heal in a 10 man raid? Because if you are then he probably has nothing to heal at all, and just sits there and over heals. 3 healers pulling 10-12k hps in a 10m is more than enough. I'd wager to say the dps/tanks are doing something wrong if you're still dying.
    3 in normal mode, its usually: myself (pala), resto druid and resto shammy, but we'd really love a priest for hardmodes so we'd like to gear one up and get him used to the encounters. I hear a lot of talk about some fights requiring 4 healers (hc mode) so that's my reasoning and also shamans are the weakest healers at the moment, but our shammy is pummeling this priest, so that's why I thought I'd come and see if any advice for him I could give.
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  16. #16
    TBH it comes down to the encounter.

    Personally I have no need to show my e-peen on HPS sniping. I rather toss some renews then use PoH when only parts of a group takes damage.

    That said, Holy Priests have no problems crushing the other healers when the raid actually needs healing, on most encounters it's not really needed, OR it's only needed for parts of the fight like on Monstrosity P3.

  17. #17
    Tell him to sort his glyphs too - he's glyphed for pw:s in his holy spec, which is crazy.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    Posting a parse would help a ton with people helping you here at MMO. Honestly there isn't a "best" answer to every situation to help an under-performing priest.
    Careful, this one is known to give shotty advice. Hi Spiritus [COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 04:25 PM ----------



    Ok, well honestly here I think what you have is someone who has done very little research on healing priests. I mean come on... he doesnt use penance once when he is disc on omnotron. Renew is he favorite spell. Sorry, this isnt Woltk where blanket renews = win. Also.... I think hes in Atonement spec for disc lol. Which if he is, he cast 1 smite the entire time.

    He cast on omnotron:

    1 flash heal
    1 greater heal
    1 heal
    0 prayer of mending
    0 penance

    Tell him to quit blanket shielding and renewing! Use other spells for god sakes. Might be better off scraping him and looking for a replacement. These logs are very very sad.
    Last edited by kynd; 2011-02-10 at 04:30 PM.

  19. #19
    Quickly skimmed through a few replies so I might be repeating some others already mentioned:

    Forget about renew. Use PoH on aoe-heavy fights (Magmaw is a great example). PoH gives you much higher HPM than renew if the whole groups is taking damage. Your PoH should weigh 20-30% in the healing meter and renew shouldn't be more than 5%.

    If you are holy, stay in Sanctuary for 15% buff on aoe heals and 8sec CoH. Serenity is basically meaningless in raid, as you are not very likely to be healing tanks anyway.

    Prior to 4.06, holy priest is the best in aoe heal and there is no reason it can't pull more HPS than Druids or Shamans.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsevit View Post

    Forget about renew. Use PoH on aoe-heavy fights (Magmaw is a great example). PoH gives you much higher HPM than renew if the whole groups is taking damage. Your PoH should weigh 20-30% in the healing meter and renew shouldn't be more than 5%.

    If you are holy, stay in Sanctuary for 15% buff on aoe heals and 8sec CoH. Serenity is basically meaningless in raid, as you are not very likely to be healing tanks anyway.
    This is really the worst advice I've seen in a long time. I don't know how it is in 25 man, but for 10 man, Serenity is a must. Also, forget about Renew? I'm really trying to be nice, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

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