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  1. #1

    Am I doing something wrong?

    I was wondering if I am doing anything wrong when healing encounters as Holy.
    Most of the times I am second or third on healing while almost completely OOM at the end of the fight or abit before while the other healers are having more mana than I do.
    the raid setup is Resto Druid, Holy Paladin and Holy Priest.

    now, I am pretty sure I am doing good most of the time but I really don't know already..
    here is my WoL I uploaded(keep in mind its my first time using it so I missed some fights)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-mj9uncnew5k6co97/
    We also killed Twilight Ascendant Council but I forgot to enable the combat log ended up quite good with my mana and #1 on healing.
    here is my Armory- http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oomwish/simple

    btw, if you're looking at my Armory, what is the next upgrade I should get with Valor Points?

    I am after a long day and a raid so I am pretty tired.. I am sure I forgot to mention many other things that could help you but I am really confused ;|
    so thanks in advance and sorry if I am not clear..
    Last edited by dennisd; 2011-02-10 at 10:07 PM.

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  2. #2
    I didn't really delve into your logs, but here's a few issues:

    A majority of your healing is from CoH/PoH, but I don't see you spending any time in Chakra: Sanctuary. If your playstyle is to bomb AoE heals, you should be buffing them with the appropriate Chakra state.

    It also looks like you didn't use Lightwell on some of your fights. Lightwell should always be on CD. It's a hugely mana efficient heal and heals for a ridiculous amount over its duration. Don't be afraid to yell at your DPS to get them to use it

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Caetlan View Post
    I didn't really delve into your logs, but here's a few issues:

    A majority of your healing is from CoH/PoH, but I don't see you spending any time in Chakra: Sanctuary. If your playstyle is to bomb AoE heals, you should be buffing them with the appropriate Chakra state.

    It also looks like you didn't use Lightwell on some of your fights. Lightwell should always be on CD. It's a hugely mana efficient heal and heals for a ridiculous amount over its duration. Don't be afraid to yell at your DPS to get them to use it
    About Chakra:Sanctuary.. I just feel more comfortable having Holy Word:Serenity to throw that on people who are at around 70% hp and when there is no AoE damage for a few seconds or when the tank is getting low it helps aswell.
    Is it really better to sit in Sanctuary than Serenity?

    and about Lightwell.. sigh its just funny to see how people don't click on it even when I tell them to click on it all the time or use it in a stupid way, for example in Halfus when he stuns everybody and deals AoE damage I tell them "guys, click on it when you're stunned" and right when I say it EVERYBODY click on the well when they are at 100% HP and not stunned. its just funny
    Last edited by dennisd; 2011-02-10 at 11:36 PM.

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  4. #4
    If your having mana issues then I recommend the following:

    Talents wise you could do with moving a few points around. I recommend moving points out of Tomb of Light and State of Mind and moving them into Blessed resilience and Desperate prayer.

    Sate wise, lower your haste and increase your mastery. I'm not sure if they changed the armory to show your haste value to include haste from talents. But if you have 11% WITHOUT 3/3 darkness then that is far more than you really need when you add the extra 5% spell haste you get in raids. Especially if your having mana issues, haste is only going to make the problem worse. Get more mastery; it's free healing.

    I agree with Caetlan. As a holy priest you really should be hitting the raid with your aoe heals in the correct chakra state.

    And if they are using your lightwell at the wrong times or just arnt doing it at all you will need to educate them. It will benefit them and you in the long run.

    And with regard to your next VP purchase, get the Spirit/mastery ring to replace the therazane ring.

    Hope that helped!
    Last edited by Cephius; 2011-02-10 at 11:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    If your having mana issues then I recommend the following:

    Talents wise you could do with moving a few points around. I recommend moving points out of Tomb of Light and State of Mind and moving them into Blessed resilience and Desperate prayer.

    Sate wise, lower your haste and increase your mastery. I'm not sure if they changed the armory to show your haste value to include haste from talents. But if you have 11% WITHOUT 3/3 darkness then that is far more than you really need when you add the extra 5% spell haste you get in raids. Especially if your having mana issues, haste is only going to make the problem worse. Get more mastery; it's free healing.

    I agree with Caetlan. As a holy priest you really should be hitting the raid with your aoe heals in the correct chakra state.

    And if they are using your lightwell at the wrong times or just arnt doing it at all you will need to educate them. It will benefit them and you in the long run.

    And with regard to your next VP purchase, get the Spirit/mastery ring to replace the therazane ring.

    Hope that helped!
    Thanks for your help, I guess I'll be staying in Chakara:Serenity more.
    and about your talent suggestion, I really don't see a reason to use Desperate Prayer and Blessed resilience, most of the time I am the last to die, so my survivability is not a problem.
    also, I am wondering is it normal to be below Resto Druid's on the healing in 10 man?

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisd View Post
    Thanks for your help, I guess I'll be staying in Chakara:Serenity more.
    and about your talent suggestion, I really don't see a reason to use Desperate Prayer and Blessed resilience, most of the time I am the last to die, so my survivability is not a problem.
    also, I am wondering is it normal to be below Resto Druid's on the healing in 10 man?
    I run with a Holy Pally/Resto druid combo also and seem to usual outheal/least overheal bothm though not by much. We are all equally skilled and I have been running with these two for about 2 years now so we have our healer dynamic perfect (Eg: Calling out when using Hymn to allow druid to innervate, calling out if help is required on the raid or the tank, etc). Though it does depend on the fight/on the day (everyone has their bad days) and I am probably the least geared out of the two (damn you bosses never dropping my pieces!).

    I stay mostly in Chakra Sanctuary (though rarely use the Sanc spell) and I only go Serenity on fights that do not have much AOE healing or I need that quick heal/refreshing renew. Ie: Nefarion phase 2 works out better if I renew us 4 and just keep refreshing it. This probably differs to many priests but it works best for me.

    I can't seem to post links due to it saying that I haven't posted enough times but I was going to post you this weeks parse + my armory so you could have a look over, how many posts does one have to do to be able to?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Corpseflower View Post
    I run with a Holy Pally/Resto druid combo also and seem to usual outheal/least overheal bothm though not by much. We are all equally skilled and I have been running with these two for about 2 years now so we have our healer dynamic perfect (Eg: Calling out when using Hymn to allow druid to innervate, calling out if help is required on the raid or the tank, etc). Though it does depend on the fight/on the day (everyone has their bad days) and I am probably the least geared out of the two (damn you bosses never dropping my pieces!).

    I stay mostly in Chakra Sanctuary (though rarely use the Sanc spell) and I only go Serenity on fights that do not have much AOE healing or I need that quick heal/refreshing renew. Ie: Nefarion phase 2 works out better if I renew us 4 and just keep refreshing it. This probably differs to many priests but it works best for me.

    I can't seem to post links due to it saying that I haven't posted enough times but I was going to post you this weeks parse + my armory so you could have a look over, how many posts does one have to do to be able to?
    You need 10 posts I think, but you can just link it and make a (.) or space in between.

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    What I see from your logs, is that you barely use renew, which is a shame. Use it much more. Almost all encounters have more or less constant movement, it's godlike for those situations so do yourself a favor and learn how to use it properly.

    Another problem is that you have many items that aint reforged into haste. Haste is king in 10 man, while mastery falls behind as you do not have as many targets to heal as in 25 man.

    At the end of the day, it's a playstyle issue I think. You push out a little too much AoE healing whereas you should try to single target heal more.
    I had alot of mana problems before I reforged everything to haste, now, the only time I go oom is on Cho'gall 2 man healing.

  9. #9
    One general remark regarding healing meters: don't stare yourself blind on them. Unlike DPS, your performance isn't best per se, if you top the Healing meters. In fact, you could top the Healing meters and still suck at playing it properly. Healing isn't in the same ballpark as DPS is, and using the healing meters as a gauge of performance requires you to understand how the numbers came to be in the first place - which immediately makes a ranking fairly redundant.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf View Post
    What I see from your logs, is that you barely use renew, which is a shame. Use it much more. Almost all encounters have more or less constant movement, it's godlike for those situations so do yourself a favor and learn how to use it properly.

    Another problem is that you have many items that aint reforged into haste. Haste is king in 10 man, while mastery falls behind as you do not have as many targets to heal as in 25 man.

    At the end of the day, it's a playstyle issue I think. You push out a little too much AoE healing whereas you should try to single target heal more.
    I had alot of mana problems before I reforged everything to haste, now, the only time I go oom is on Cho'gall 2 man healing.
    From the previous comments people told me that I have too much haste so I decided to restore all my mastery that was reforged into haste.. so right now I am confused because you're saying that I should have more haste while others told me to remove haste.

    additionally, by saying I don't use renew enough I don't know what to say about it since I put renew on both of the tanks and I refresh it because I was using Chakara:Serenity so maybe that is why you thought I am not using it enough?

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I'm going to quote myself from other people's posts:


    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    Well with the new changes to Chakra you don't need State of Mind anymore. I suggest taking that out and picking up SoL / Desperate Prayer. DP Heals for a ton now and SoL will be quite useful in 10m.

    Frankly from a brief glance you are doing everything just about right. Tell them that if you get innervate you could probably put out bigger numbers - that's just how it is. Unfortunately Holy Paladins are downright the best 10m healers. Priests really shine in 25s. Don't fret - you look like you're doing great, I just have a few suggestions

    You just need to adjust your spec. Check out mine for a good 4.0.6 spec http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary

    Your glyphs are odd though. You'd put out more #s with Glyph of Lightwell than Flash Heal. Glyph of FH is kind of useless, definitely drop it. You should also pick up the Glyph of Prayer of Mending (replaced Spirit of Redemption as a Major) in place of Inner Fire. It's amazing for dropping on the tank.

    Like the above poster said - Fiend then immediately cast Hymn of Hope - even if you can only get off the "bonus mana" tick it's worth it. You'll get a lot more mana back from fiend that way. Don't spec into Veiled Shadows - you just don't need it and will hardly use it. Also, use Concentration Potions over Mythical Mana - they give you twice the mana and there are PLENTY of opportunities to stop healing & regen with it, as long as you know the encounters well.

    Don't use Mending on "cooldown". Use it when it's not on anyone, times out/ticks out.

    Don't use Sanctuary in 10m. It's just not worth the mana for how little healing it does except on Chimaeron.

    With the new changes to PoH, Renew, Chakra and CoH you should always be in Sanctuary unless you are purely tank healing. Why? For instance, I used to spend 99% of my time in 10s in Serenity for the instant heal and refreshing Renew. Now PoH got a 15% nerf, which means sitting in Sanc will put you back to the same level of PoH as before - it will also buff Renew, which is now a viable spell to be casting and pretty outstanding in 10m attached to Glyph of PoH & EoL. You also gain the shorter cooldown on CoH which is quite invaluable. In which case - you don't need Tome of Light in your spec either. It just isn't necessary, which will give you better throughput talents.

    You can also call out your Paladin: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=4581&e=4869
    If you look at the graph you can see that he was often spiking during non Feud, now, I don't know what your assignments were but this could easily mean he was trying to "pad" - but I don't know.

    Hope this helps and I will be more than willing to clarify anything so ask away


    Edit: Your name is essentially the same as my forum name (old toon name) haha...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    I have to disagree with the above poster. I don't know why people push for the 12.5% haste Renew cap so much. Renew is such an inefficient raid healing spell right now that you don't need to worry about that. You aren't spamming Renew, and if you are using Renew it's on the tank which can be refreshed with Heal so the 5th tick doesn't matter, other than getting it to tick faster, in which case, as much Haste as possible is the ultimate benefit.

    Haste vs. Mastery is really a preference. I find that in 10mans Haste is better, and 25s Mastery is better. Our main progression team is currently 10m so I stack Haste. I have noticed a small increase in my overall healing since swapping all of my Mastery to Haste. It really is personal preference. You can even just have both, but I recommend stacking one way or the other, as it gives you more overall effect. You're a little inconsistent in your gear, which I assume is just an oversight; you reforge Mastery to Haste yet you have a Mastery enchant on your gloves.

    Talents
    Surge of Light is pretty useless right now. In your Valonia log you cast Heal only 8 times without a single proc and Halfus was 6 Heals and no procs. Is that really worth 2 talent points? No. It will be in 4.0.6, but right now it's not.

    Divine Touch & Rapid Renewal. Again, you're taking talent points that you aren't even using. These are pretty useless as well, until 4.0.6 - and even then Rapid Renewal is meh. You almost didn't cast Renew at all in either of those 2 fights. The only 2 fights that I have encountered where Renew is powerful in 10m are Council & Nefarian P1/P2. You should probably drop the Glyph as well.

    I recommend going with something like this since you don't need State of Mind: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfuRRRzrkfzoh

    Yes, DP is weak, but it's a free healthstone and is getting buffed in 4.0.6. It's honestly better than any other talent you're forced to take unless you take 2pts in Divine Touch - which you can. Although Blessed Resilience is 5/10% in the tooltip, it's actually 15/30% because of a hotfix 3-4 weeks ago. It's a great talent to have; use your DP when you have BR if you can :]


    Spell Choice
    Valonia: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ya...?s=2761&e=3131

    This was a 6 minute fight and you only had 108k from Lightwell. This could be a few things:
    1. Are your dps trained to click it?
    2. Are you placing it in an ideal spot? IE, next to melee and within range of the tank, next to ranged
    3. Are you casting it pre-pull & then again during the encounter?

    A single Lightwell can easily pull off 200k healing.

    Sanctuary is garbage for 10mans. Never use it. It pulls of like, 20k healing at best and costs 10k mana. You're much much much much better off dropping every other AoE raid heal you have, PoH, ProM, CoH. In 25s it's "ook" during big stacking high damage intake phases, but it's barely there. Don't use it in 10m, haha.

    Prayer of Mending is very powerful on both of those fights with the AE damage. Some points more than others.

    Anytime a group with 3+ members that need healing - PoH. 1-2, just cast Heal or Greater Heal. You're using Greater Heal a lot and I'm not really sure why. Are you tank healing? If so, your numbers will be skewed from the "norm." If you're raid healing use your main raid healing tools: ProM -> PoH -> CoH. When you take damage, Binding Heal. It gives you the boost to your next PoH / GH. You should really use them on PoH as much as possible, unless the tank is taking spiky damage.

    Holy Word: Serenity is your friend! In 10m there usually isn't much of a need to ever be in Sanctuary - except super high damage phases like Feud on Chimeron. Serenity is one of your highest HPM heal, gives you the crit buff on the target (which, with higher Haste you can get 2 Heal/Gheals off while it's up) and it is instant cast. I've saved a lot of lives with this thing! Use it often! I'm not even the best at remembering to use this, practice makes perfect. :]

    The best advice I can give you, and since you are a raid leader I assume you know this, is to know the fights through and through. Learn the damage patterns outside of the game and then you will know exactly which heal is the most effective for each situation. Be proactive instead if reactive and you will immediately notice an increase in your numbers & survivability of your raid.

    Feel free to ask questions on what I said, I check these forums often. ^_^

    Here's my guild's logs - Starmazin: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/93381/ Armory is in sig


    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    A pure raid healing spec would probably look something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bchZfuMrokrkfzoh:zoa0q (with choice of open glyphs) with the last talent going into whatever you want.

    I have found I barely cast the heals for SoL (only 2 procs on Nef 10m (kill), with 2 procs over 3 fights in 25s) and it's not really worth it in a pure raid healing sense.

    I plan to adjust to this spec.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    "I guess that raid healing spec would make a lot sense for 25 mans. But in 10 mans even when assigned to raid healing you find yourself healing the tanks a lot."

    Yes but Sanc is going to be just as much if not more throughput for tank healing since it's not a big penalty to recast Renew now & you get a bonus 15% healing on it.

    Lemme know if you need anything clarified - I haven't proofed over this for 4.0.6 changes though, but my last 2 are from 4.0.6

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisd View Post
    From the previous comments people told me that I have too much haste so I decided to restore all my mastery that was reforged into haste.. so right now I am confused because you're saying that I should have more haste while others told me to remove haste.

    additionally, by saying I don't use renew enough I don't know what to say about it since I put renew on both of the tanks and I refresh it because I was using Chakara:Serenity so maybe that is why you thought I am not using it enough?
    I'll bet my dignity that the above posters are raiding 25 man, I know for a fact that Cephius is atleast. In 25 man, mastery is very good and hence they recommend that. I only raid 10 man and I know, from trying both full mastery and full haste, that haste gives me so much more than mastery does.

    About Renew; Renew shouldn't only be used on the tanks. You can think of it a little like Rejuvenation if you ever played a druid. You cast it on people that benefit from it, that will be healer, dps or tanks. Don't blanket the raid ofcourse, there is mostly no need, but it's a nice spell to cast around on people who have been taking damage or will take damage. Personally I have Renew and Circle of Healing at the same amount of healing every boss kill which is around 25-30% of my healing.

    For Mazi; SoL procs a lot more now than it did pre 4.0.6. It's worth picking up now.

  13. #13
    Hey Mazi, thanks for your quotes but some of them are outdated and you are sometimes saying that you shouldn't be in serenity and on another quote you say you should etc.
    I'll just recap what everbody told me so tell me if you think its correct,
    I am going full haste,reforge mastery and crit for haste
    Instead of Chakra:Serenity -> Chakra: Sanctuary
    Cast Renew alot more
    Change my talents
    and hmm anything else I should add?

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    I personally think you should stay in Chakra: Serenity but it depends if you have an assigned role in the raid. In our guild we use free assignments cause it leaves room for a lot more freedom than you have if you are assigned to a specific task, and it works great for us. I heal both tanks and raid and we all share the healing equally. If you are assigned to raid healing and you then only heal the raid and make sure they are topped up most of the time, then go Chakra: Sanctuary, but if you are in a fight where there is a chance that you will have to heal the tanks and/or there's a chance someone will go dangerously low, I will anytime recommend you to stay in Chakra: Serenity.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf View Post
    I'll bet my dignity that the above posters are raiding 25 man, I know for a fact that Cephius is atleast. In 25 man, mastery is very good and hence they recommend that. I only raid 10 man and I know, from trying both full mastery and full haste, that haste gives me so much more than mastery does.

    About Renew; Renew shouldn't only be used on the tanks. You can think of it a little like Rejuvenation if you ever played a druid. You cast it on people that benefit from it, that will be healer, dps or tanks. Don't blanket the raid ofcourse, there is mostly no need, but it's a nice spell to cast around on people who have been taking damage or will take damage. Personally I have Renew and Circle of Healing at the same amount of healing every boss kill which is around 25-30% of my healing.

    For Mazi; SoL procs a lot more now than it did pre 4.0.6. It's worth picking up now.
    Renew can be used a lot on the raid in 10m and on single targets in 25s.

    My SoL numbers are from my 25s and 10s this week and I did not get good results at all because I am raid healing and hardly casting those heals. Even on Conclave where I was tank healing I only got 4 procs and 2 of them were useless. It is not really all that viable from a pure raid healing perspective, which is what my post was about.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-11 at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisd View Post
    Hey Mazi, thanks for your quotes but some of them are outdated and you are sometimes saying that you shouldn't be in serenity and on another quote you say you should etc.
    I'll just recap what everbody told me so tell me if you think its correct,
    I am going full haste,reforge mastery and crit for haste
    Instead of Chakra:Serenity -> Chakra: Sanctuary
    Cast Renew alot more
    Change my talents
    and hmm anything else I should add?
    Yes some was out of date. As of 4.0.6 you should always be in Sanc - The mana cost of Renew is not a penalty for recasting on the tank anymore like it was pre-patch. You gain throughput on it by being in Sanc (+15%).

    Yes stack Haste for 10m.

    Renew is your friend now. It has about the same HPM as Heal if it full ticks so use it on those players that don't need healed up immediately.

    Also make sure you are casting Shadow Fiend and then immediately Hymn of Hope - you will get A LOT more mana out of it. Even if you can't fully cast HoH. Also, try out Concentration potions, they give double the mana.
    Last edited by Mazi; 2011-02-11 at 05:57 PM.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf View Post
    I got 42 Surge of Light Procs in Wednesday's raid over 7 boss kills. 42*5765 = 242130/7 = 34590 mana pr kill. Thats 2x fiend ~.
    I'd say that's pretty good.
    How does your overall data look then?

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    7 total procs on 10m Nefarian, Conclave and Al'akir kills.
    2 total procs on 25m Atramedes, Chimaeron, Maloriak kills.
    13 total procs on 25m Halfus, Twins, Council, Cho'gall and Argaloth kills.

    I'm currently the only raiding Holy Priest therefore I'm in charge of the bulk of the raid healing and I'm very rarely single casting. I guess it's just my guild/raid playstyle and healing setup.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Yeah you have a lot less procs. As I wrote I heal both tanks and raid, but I see that from a raid healing PoV it's not gonna be worth it much. I don't know how it works in other guilds generally, it's a long time ago I healed with assignments.

  19. #19
    Another question I am wondering, as a filler should I be casting 'Heal'?

    Shielding your life since 2007 yo

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Yes, you should.

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