LF Ret BiS list

[Hyc]

. Also from the numbers I've seen crit and haste are so equal that it wouldn't matter which one you got of the two.

recheck your numbers haste is a is far inferior to Crit. Crit and Mastery are close, but mastery is slightly better.

[Deleted]

the discussion was on the 10% CS damage boost from prot T11 and weathernot the prot bonus would alone be more of a dps upgrade than the 4piece ret would be. Stop mixing in raidbuffs and such cuz by that point we'd mix in 1200str pots, heroism/timewarp/bloodlust and things like that. I was talking about the raw damage from crusader strike would surpass the 4piece ret t11 once you can get 18 crusader strikes per minute.

And i have no clue what do do with the links you provided.

The only place where miniscule dps difference like that provided by different setbonuses would matter is in raids. All current dps theorycraft is done for raiding. No one gives a flying pancake about dummy damage, because no one raids the dummies, and dummies drops no loot. You with me?

Now, the spreadsheets I linked to you, is proper math. All the half-assed calculations you are trying to do, has already been done. And they have been done by people who are actually phenomenal at math, and knows their way around simulations and coding.

How does this apply to you? First step is to realize, that your calculations are not just wrong, they are also fruitless. You are very lucky that other people has spent many many hours already, mathing out our statweights, scalings, priorities and set bonuses. This is what you find in the spreadsheets I linked. Plug in your gear, and it will tell you all the numbers you need to know, all the advanced legwork has been sorted for you. It's there, you just have to use it.

You are very welcome.

This is pretty mean too. - Simca

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The only place where miniscule dps difference like that provided by different setbonuses would matter is in raids. All current dps theorycraft is done for raiding. No one gives a flying pancake about dummy damage, because no one raids the dummies, and dummies drops no loot. You with me?

Now, the spreadsheets I linked to you, is proper math. All the half-assed calculations you are trying to do, has already been done. And they have been done by people who are actually phenomenal at math, and knows their way around simulations and coding.

How does this apply to you? First step is to realize, that your calculations are not just wrong, they are also fruitless. You are very lucky that other people has spent many many hours already, mathing out our statweights, scalings, priorities and set bonuses. This is what you find in the spreadsheets I linked. Plug in your gear, and it will tell you all the numbers you need to know, all the advanced legwork has been sorted for you. It's there, you just have to use it.

You are very welcome.

First of all, I never claimed to be right. I had no idea that the calculations had been done, so sorry for not being aware of that. What program are you supposed to open the files you linked with? i looked at the original website and it said Excal, my Excal10 wont work with it and I've tried everything else i got.

---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 02:21 AM ----------

kk got it now, thanks

[Badpaladin]

You don't even need a spreadsheet, just find out how many TV's you would have gained over the course of a fight, put that in terms of a percentage and add that on to your total percent of damage dealt. To compare the prot bonus, simply multiply your original CS's percentage by 1.1. The TV's will always come out higher, especially when you adjust the % gain from prot 2pc for the missed DPS stats.

It's incredibly napkin-y, but you don't need a spreadsheet in cases like this. A difference of over 2% is very easily noticed by doing rough math.

[Requital]

TV doesn't work on nef?

The Heroic Nef encounter gives you a buff that you stack, This is why guilds were killing it with Druids the amount of damage they can do. The buff gains based on stack.



So you can see here with my stack of Stolen Power 106 out of 150 possible I would have a 1590% Damage buff on my next attack that consumes: Rage, Energy, Runes or Mana so yes this does not include Holy Power. So basically we can use Exorcism ( casted if no aow is up ) Judgement laughable damage or Hammer of Wrath if AW is up. Note on the Hammer of Wrath if you have the Glyph that removes mana cost fro HoW it won't work either.

So there you have it we have Crusader Strike until Blizzard fixes it.

---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 06:37 AM ----------

It's solid, but not vast. It should range around 1.1ish%, at least it did the last time myself and Requital were arguing over it.

That 1.1% was based off of PTR numbers and that was 5% not 10% the 1.1% came from the came from the CS bonus from PvP gloves.

[Badpaladin]

Jut picking a random top parse:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9236&e=9789

CS would jump from 13.3 to 14.63, a 1.33% increase ignoring stats and general distribution of damage. To see anything more than 3.5%, what the 4pc is valued at, you'd need 25% or more of your total damage to be CS.

[Dieselpower]

Listing all gear(without resilience) usable by a paladin, warrior, or DK constitutes a BiS list? Am I missing something?

You don't like stat weight filtering?

[Zipas]

guess ill help myself then

im comparing normal version items since its more relevant to me.

Reinforced Sapphirium Chestguard
Reinforced Sapphirium Handguards

Strength (341 + 253) @ 232 = 137808
Mastery (208 + 149) @ 99 = 35343
Crit (67 + 59) @ 94 = 11844
Total = 184995

Reinforced Sapphirium Battleplate
Reinforced Sapphirium Gauntlets

Strength (301 + 233) @ 232 = 123888
Mastery (149) @ 99 = 14751
Crit (228) @ 94 = 21432
Haste (188 + 169) @ 67 = 23919
Total = 183990

[Prentice]

guess ill help myself then

im comparing normal version items since its more relevant to me.

Reinforced Sapphirium Chestguard
Reinforced Sapphirium Handguards

Strength (341 + 253) @ 232 = 137808
Mastery (208 + 149) @ 99 = 35343
Crit (67 + 59) @ 94 = 11844
Total = 184995

Reinforced Sapphirium Battleplate
Reinforced Sapphirium Gauntlets

Strength (301 + 233) @ 232 = 123888
Mastery (149) @ 99 = 14751
Crit (228) @ 94 = 21432
Haste (188 + 169) @ 67 = 23919
Total = 183990

So you went out of your way to forge to desirable stats on the prot gear, but couldn't do the same for the ret tier?? Trying to be cute and bending the rules to meet your desires is never the right way to go about things. You and I both know that the ret pieces are still superior if you change the stats up to what they should be. Don't play games. And the superiority of the 4T11 bonus has already been clarified. Weaker two pieces of gear and weaker bonus is not desirable. Nice try though.

Strength (301 + 233) @ 232 = 123888
Mastery (149 + 75) @ 99 = 22176
Crit (228 + 67) @ 94 = 27730
Haste (113 + 101) @ 67 = 14338
Total = 188132

[Zipas]

Haste (217) @ 67 = 14539

you didnt reforge in your comparison too i guess i was too much into copying

[Prentice]

you didnt reforge in your comparison too i guess i was too much into copying

In the previous comparison I made, it wasn't necessary to reforge. The ret gear was dominant either way. I suppose the mistake was an innocent one. I am so used to seeing people trying to be creative even at the risk of presenting bogus information that I often times shoot first and fail to ask the questions entirely.

[Ritalynn]

google is hard, go to elitistjerks.

Reading the forum rules is hard. Go to the forum guidelines. - Hitsurugi

---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 02:50 PM ----------

You should add a forum guideline that says type questions into google for easy answers. <-----

Make it in bold imo.

[Liminal]

PvP Relic or Valor Point Relic?


PvP
154 str @232 35728
76 crit @94 7144
total: 42872


PvE
147 @232 34104
72 crit @94 6768
72 exp @??
Total: 40872 + ?? exp


I'm assuming PvE is a clear winner?

[Fektoer]

I'm assuming PvE is a clear winner?

Obviously.

[Verdris]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me that PvP gear isn't viable in PvE, notwithstanding PvE set bonuses. By using Vicious gloves, I get+5% CS damage. By pairing that with Vicious legs, I get +70STR, nearly the equivalent of 2 extra red gems. Not to mention that individually the stats on these items outperform stats on 359 raid epics. The Vicious Glad's Girdle of Cruelty also outperforms the rep epic.

Someone help. My paladin looks ridiculous but her DPS is amazing. What do?

---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 08:06 PM ----------

4set tier 11 paladin isnt a dps increase, all it does is increasing your total damage done.

Honestly I stopped reading right there. (total damage done)/(length of fight) = rate of damage done, or damage per unit time, say, seconds. You know. DPS?

[Prentice]

-If the PvP 2set bonus breaks your 2T11 or 4T11 bonus, it isn't worth it.
-If you don't have 4T11 already, but have 2pc PvP and 2T11 you should definitely go with it
-If you have 4T11, the best non-heroic off-set piece is the PvP hands.

As for the belt, I am inclined to disagree with your assessment.

Redcape values:
Weapon Speed 188250
Weapon DPS 862
Strength 227
Hit rating 174
Exp rating 134
Crit rating 96
Haste rating 80
Mastery rating 101

Using Redcape's current values:
Belt of the Ferocious Wolf
+233 Strength@ 227 = 54056
149 Critical Strike Rating @ 96 = 14304
169 Mastery Rating @ 101 = 17069
Total = 85429

Vicious Gladiator's Girdle of Cruelty
248 Strength @ 227 = 56296
159 Critical Strike Rating @ 96 = 15264
Total = 71560

The complete loss of a stat makes the PvP belt vastly inferior to the Hyjal rep belt. Its not even close. Even if you did a bit of reforging, the dps lost from the PvP belt is very significant.

[Requital]

The new values coming up with our secondary stats really hurt the use of PvP gear which is good from the raiding stand point.

---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 10:52 PM ----------

PvP Relic or Valor Point Relic?


PvP
154 str @232 35728
76 crit @94 7144
total: 42872


PvE
147 @232 34104
72 crit @94 6768
72 exp @??
Total: 40872 + ?? exp


I'm assuming PvE is a clear winner?

Not really, It depends what your expertise is already at and how much you can get rid of.

[Verdris]

-If the PvP 2set bonus breaks your 2T11 or 4T11 bonus, it isn't worth it.
-If you don't have 4T11 already, but have 2pc PvP and 2T11 you should definitely go with it
-If you have 4T11, the best non-heroic off-set piece is the PvP hands.
~lolmath~

Thanks for you analysis of the belt, I've switched back to the Rep item.