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  1. #1

    4.06 Ret BiS Gear

    ***Disclaimer***
    This list is strictly targeted for those out there that have neither the time, patience or mathematical ability to dig through 45 plus pages of ej discussion. I want this to help the regular raiding Ret and give him or her something easy to go back to and reference.


    Helm
    Reinforced Sapphirium Helmet

    Neck
    Caelestrasz's Will
    Rage of Ages
    If the opportunity presents itself to pick up Rage of Ages I would not hesitate, I imagine for most people getting such a high level tanking kneck would be rather difficult.

    Shoulders
    Pauldrons of the Great Ettin

    Back
    Glittering Epidermis

    Chest
    Reinforced Sapphirium Battleplate

    Bracers
    Bracers of the Mat'redor

    Gloves
    Reinforced Sapphirium Gauntlets

    Belt
    Belt of Absolute Zero

    Legs
    Reinforced Sapphirium Legplates

    Boots
    Massacre Treads

    Rings
    Ring of Rivalry
    Looking for ring debate as this tooltip is wrong compared to what is in the actual game. If anyone can point me to a comparable Throne ring link it would be greatly appreciated.

    Dargonax's Signet

    Trinkets
    Heart of Rage
    Crushing Weight
    *Thanks to Kisko for all the work on the trinkets. ~http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...timation-4.0.6

    Relic
    Relic of Aggramar

    Weapon
    Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood

    **Updated 2/28**
    Cleaned up formatting per the Ret communities wishes and trinket changes.
    Last edited by Jämeson; 2011-02-28 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Trinkets/formatting

  2. #2
    Also, great for pissing off your deathknight tanks.
    I Lold at this XD

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jämeson View Post
    Dragon Bone Warhelm
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=65038
    Yes, this is technically a tank helm but the amount of mastery and strength on it are unmatched with any pure dps helm.
    Heroic tier helm have 42 more Str even when matched with socket bonus and more stats too.

    Gloves
    Gravitational Pull
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=65119
    Same, tier gloves have 59 more Str.

    Trinket 2
    Crushing Weight
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=65118
    Words BiS and Crushing Weight shouldn't appear at the same page, ever.

    You saying that you readed EJ, but somehow you missed Tol Barad trinket, but included crappy haste trinket instead? Weird.

    So I sat down today and did some serious number crunching with Red's spreadsheet over at EJ and after a memorable amount of hours and getting absolutely nothing done at work today here are my results.
    Appreciate the effort, but you probably better off doing work next time. =)

    Also, It's kind of obvious in light of the recent changes, but 4-piece is the way to go now, all current theorycrafting agrees on this. So ...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisko View Post
    Same, tier gloves have 59 more Str.
    I have to comment on this because I also argued this with Requital the other night until I did the math myself. If you can use the expertise on the gloves they come out very slightly on top of tier despite the strength loss due to Haste being worth so little. But again, the difference is very minimal I just had to say something because "omg but 59 strength" was my reaction too lol.
    Last edited by Rlyskilled; 2011-02-11 at 06:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rlyskilled View Post
    I have to comment on this because I also argued this with Requital the other night until I did the math myself. If you can use the expertise on the gloves they come out very slightly on top of tier despite the strength loss due to Haste being worth so little. But again, the difference is very minimal I just had to say something because "omg but 59 strength" was my reaction too lol.
    Have you accounted for a benefit of 4-piece bonus, which, by recent spreadsheet, can be as high as +4%?

    H: Gravitational Pull: 207 STR * 2.32 + 401 Crit/Mast * 0.96 = 865.2
    H: Tier: 266 STR * 2.32 + 362 Hast/Mast * 0.83 = 917.58

    You can't beat 59 Str deficit. If tier gloves allow you to get 4-piece bonus, you can add up to 800 dps on top of it.
    I just can't see a point of arguing here. Who was for tier gloves anyway, you or him?

    Oh, and haste is not "worth so little". It's still 67% or so of Mastery weight and should be judged accordingly.

  6. #6
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    Crushing Weight should never be used over License to Slay/Heart of Rage. You should reforge around it as haste is so much lower than other stats now.
    Also, Ashkandi should be better than Akirus due to it's 3.8 speed, and the crit is fine as mastery and crit will scale off each other nicely.
    As well as what other posters said, 4 piece is definately worth using, with shoulders as the non-tier item.

  7. #7
    Also, according to a post by chippy (and verified by Exemplar), Fury of Angerforge is quite good especially when stacked with Avenging Wrath + Zealotry (and Guardian of the Ancient Kings when they sink up). Throw hero and a golemblood potion in that mix and you will do some crazy damage. I replaced my normal Heart of Rage with it and I'm not regretting it.

    That said, License to Slay and Heart of Rage are still both very good.

  8. #8
    Wow this BiS list is quite frankly very flawed.

    You chose Rage of Ages over Caelestrasz's Will, the tanking neck from Sinestra with an extra socket. It's just way superior when you reforge off dodge, due to having 54 more strength than heroic Rage of Ages. 54 strength >>>>> 88 rating stats.

    Heroic Ashkandi is a lot better than Heroic Akirus, due to the 3.8 speed. Stats are almost identical, because crit and mastery are very close to each other and you can reforge some of the crit to mastery anyway.

    BiS trinkets right now are DMC:H and Heroic Heart of Rage. Crushing weight is not very good now, due to having a haste proc (worst stat) that we cannot just reforge off.

    Also, using 4Piece bonus will definately trump using bad offpieces like the tanking helm and the haste gloves.

    Our BiS list looks more like this:

    http://chardev.org/?profile=41467

    The only thing im up in the air about is the belt. Belt of Absolute Zero from Maloriak is likely slightly better (don't have excel on this computer so can't check spreadsheet atm), due to having a socket bonus and not having haste on it, so you can swap that out at your own discretion.

    edit: revised the list with a proper gem and better reforging
    Last edited by Mew; 2011-02-11 at 12:02 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    http://chardev.org/?profile=39430

    The only thing im up in the air about is the belt. Belt of Absolute Zero from Maloriak is likely slightly better (don't have excel on this computer so can't check spreadsheet atm), due to having a socket bonus and not having haste on it, so you can swap that out at your own discretion.
    Very well thought-out list I should say.

    Are you sure there is no way to utilize extra 20 hit from matching chest socket by using different reforging scheme?

    Also worth pointing out that for classes with expertise/hit bonuses list and reforging will be a bit different.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisko View Post
    Very well thought-out list I should say.

    Are you sure there is no way to utilize extra 20 hit from matching chest socket by using different reforging scheme?

    Also worth pointing out that for classes with expertise/hit bonuses list and reforging will be a bit different.
    Oh yea that is indeed an error, the socket in chest should be etched str/hit. Actually I didn't make this chardev, it was someone elses that I glanced over to check for flaws, but I seem to miss that detail. Also reforging was done by someone else, so it should be possible to sqeeze out a slightly better option with hit rating, ill try do that later to make a perfect one.

    edit: just made one with Maloriak belt and the new gem, so it should reflect pretty much the optimal Setup for currently availible items

    http://chardev.org/?profile=41467
    Last edited by Mew; 2011-02-11 at 12:01 PM.

  11. #11
    i thought ring of rivalry hc having mastery instead of exp was a chardev bug?
    edit: hmm wowhead say the same thing as chardev. strange, is this the only item that has different stats normal vs hc?
    Last edited by Agathon; 2011-02-11 at 01:38 PM.

  12. #12
    Thank you for the discussion, I did f up on my spreadsheet. I assumed +Str. stats would be the same on all gear as it typically is and prioritized mine with Mastery>crit>ect. That being the case than I am definitely wrong on avoiding the set pieces, baring the lackluster(imo) 4 piece anyways. I am still up in arms with trinkets though...for LtS for example.
    Let's say I do not need hit, why would I want it? - I am not looking for a omg u r stoopid remark on this just some discussion about it. The trinket conversations on EJ are incredibly buried and hard for a lot of people to find and understand.

    The Tol Barad trinket came in dead last when I ran it in my spreadsheet, probably from me not using strength as the main factor as stated above. I personally try to avoid on use trinkets anyways.

    Same with Caelestrasz's Will, the dodge caused it to be skipped now that I look at it.

    Aga you are right on ring of rivalry, in game right now it is showing up not having any mastery at all.

    Thank you to whichever mod added in the wowhead links, I greatly appreciate it. Looks like most are 359 versions though. Going to update this again later today, please keep the discussions coming. I still think having a post where these items are easily seen for people is a great idea so please keep it bumped if you can.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-11 at 02:09 PM ----------

    Thank you Hitsurugi for doing that, I did this on my blackberry yesterday so it wasn't as clean as I wanted. Copy and pasting on a phone makes me want to murder someone.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jämeson View Post
    Thank you for the discussion, I did f up on my spreadsheet. I assumed +Str. stats would be the same on all gear as it typically is and prioritized mine with Mastery>crit>ect. That being the case than I am definitely wrong on avoiding the set pieces, baring the lackluster(imo) 4 piece anyways. I am still up in arms with trinkets though...for LtS for example.
    Let's say I do not need hit, why would I want it? - I am not looking for a omg u r stoopid remark on this just some discussion about it. The trinket conversations on EJ are incredibly buried and hard for a lot of people to find and understand.
    The reason is because with reforging in the picture, it doesn't really matter if it has hit or expertise or mastery, because once you cap the two cappable stats, everything else will turn into (in the majority of cases) our most attractive secondary stat (mastery).

    What that means when determining an items value, is that unless there simply is no way to get rid of excess hit or expertise in your finished gearset, Hit and Expertise is simply valued as Mastery.

    So LtS would be 321 Mastery rating and 380 strength proc for comparison.

    However with current itemization and Glyph of Seal of Truth being as good as it is, we are likely to run into overcapping expertise if we don't pick and choose the correct gear pieces once we hit heroic content. If you have more expertise than what is in my chardev set (say if you use the normal version ring of rivalry, or the floating web valor cloak) you won't be able to reforge off the expertise and this results in wasted stats overall. But with hit rating we don't have this issue.

    The Tol Barad trinket came in dead last when I ran it in my spreadsheet, probably from me not using strength as the main factor as stated above. I personally try to avoid on use trinkets anyways.
    The reason why the tolbarad trinket is not very good, despite having our two most desirable stats, is because the strength proc is underbudget. It is lacking over 100 strength to be on par with other 359 trinkets, thats why it ranks a lot lower than what you would otherwise expect, and is on par with 349 blue trinkets.

    Hope that made sense

    Edit: and please change the OP to reflect that our BiS weapon is Ashkandi and not Akirus. This is complete misinformation, because weapon speed actually does matter for our dps. Last time I check the spreadsheet, hc Ashkandi was over 400 dps better than hc Akirus.
    Last edited by Mew; 2011-02-11 at 02:36 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jämeson View Post
    Thank you Hitsurugi for doing that, I did this on my blackberry yesterday so it wasn't as clean as I wanted. Copy and pasting on a phone makes me want to murder someone.
    No problem. Fridays are terribly slow for me. Send me a PM if you need it updated at all. I have a definite interest in this, and I'll need to take a look at it once I get home.

    If you can keep it updated, I can toss a link to this thread in to the "Helpful Topics" sticky too.

  15. #15
    Much appreciated, I think I am going to throw up gems and enchants when I get a chance later on there. Thanks Mew also.

  16. #16
    No need to test Fury of Angerforge , at the moment it is BiS for 359 trinkets. However in terms of heroic trinkets I believe HoR is ahead.

    Ronark had posted a bis somehwere around page 28 on EJ for normal modes. The discussion on trinkets starts there as well.

  17. #17
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    Looks like you're totally on to updating this. Adding this to the "Helpful Topics" sticky.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisko View Post
    Have you accounted for a benefit of 4-piece bonus, which, by recent spreadsheet, can be as high as +4%?
    Nah I wasn't counting any sort of tier bonus I was just pointing out that stats vs stats the offset gloves are very very slightly better. Not by any means far and away better. Again, the 4set obviously makes the tier gloves superior I was just comparing the gloves themselves due to the fact that the strength loss was mentioned, and while strength is bloody important I feel it's also important for people to not only look at strength but other stats when gearing as well. That's all I wanted to say, no need to get all uptight on me. =]

    It was me who was for the tier gloves but that really doesn't matter.

    Good list.

    Edit: Lol I didn't even notice you claimed the AC gloves had crit and mastery. Nope.
    Last edited by Rlyskilled; 2011-02-11 at 05:12 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Grz View Post
    No need to test Fury of Angerforge , at the moment it is BiS for 359 trinkets. However in terms of heroic trinkets I believe HoR is ahead.

    Ronark had posted a bis somehwere around page 28 on EJ for normal modes. The discussion on trinkets starts there as well.
    Actually, Fury of Angerforge is thought to be even better than 372 trinkets (including H HoR). There's a quote from chippydip over at EJ on page 24:

    Quote Originally Posted by chippydip
    In a fight where Fury can be used with cooldowns efficiently it seems like its probably better than the 372 trinkets which means it may top Hurricane as well (and certainly any "use" trinkets in the next tier would best it).
    It definitely takes some practice to line the cooldowns up, but as I've seen this raid week after a little practice it's pretty easy to do and the results are excellent. Granted, I don't have H HoR to test against, but the issue with proc trinkets like HoR is that their chance to proc has been reduced drastically (I believe it's 10%ish). There was another topic here that showed HoR not proccing (multiple times) until over 70 seconds into the fight. That's a really long time.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisko View Post
    Have you accounted for a benefit of 4-piece bonus, which, by recent spreadsheet, can be as high as +4%?

    H: Gravitational Pull: 207 STR * 2.32 + 401 Crit/Mast * 0.96 = 865.2
    H: Tier: 266 STR * 2.32 + 362 Hast/Mast * 0.83 = 917.58

    You can't beat 59 Str deficit. If tier gloves allow you to get 4-piece bonus, you can add up to 800 dps on top of it.
    I just can't see a point of arguing here. Who was for tier gloves anyway, you or him?

    Oh, and haste is not "worth so little". It's still 67% or so of Mastery weight and should be judged accordingly.
    You have the stats wrong which is why you have a lower overall value the Gloves do not have Crit/Mastery they have Expertise and Mastery.

    H: Gravitational Pull
    207 Str * 2.32 = 480.24
    Mastery 276 * .99 = 273.24
    Expertise 125 * 1.34 = 167.50
    Value = 920.98

    H: Reinforced Sapphirium Gauntlets
    266 Str * 2.32 = 617.12
    Mastery 171 * .99 = 169.29
    Haste 191 * .67 = 127.97
    Value = 914.38

    Point for point the Gloves are better then offset shoulders because of the high amount of secondary stats but this is only the case if you can use all of the expertise and there is no reforging.

    H: Pauldrons of the Great Ettin
    Str 266 * 2.32 = 617.12
    Mastery 171 * .99 = 169.29
    Crit 191 * .94 = 179.54
    Value = 965.95

    H: Reinforced Sapphirium Pauldrons
    Str 266 * 2.32 = 617.12
    Haste 191 * .67 = 127.97
    Hit 171 * 1.75 = 299.25
    Value = 1044.34

    Important things to note, IF you can make use of the Tier Shoulders 100% the Gloves from AC are better then Tier Gloves. However if you can not make use of all of the Hit without reforging the value drops at a trmendous rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisko View Post
    Oh, and haste is not "worth so little". It's still 67% or so of Mastery weight and should be judged accordingly.
    Saying that is like saying Mastery pre 4.0.6 was ok to use because it was still 60% of Crit. Low value secondary stats are reforged off and shouldn't be kept it is worth so little.
    Last edited by Requital; 2011-02-11 at 05:13 PM.
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