Thread: BOOM, nerfed.

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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallon View Post
    You chose to roll a hybrid and hybrid you will remain. If nerfing a class for someone else's buff makes it OP feels unfair, it also feels unfair for pures to have hybrids not only beating them but even being on par with them.
    Blizzard hasn't held that view on hybrids since the end of Burning Crusade.

  2. #102
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    my boomkin and spriest taking a hit. Shadowpriest = OP? lol.

    For once we get a gift, and they take it away. Remember when spriest weren't considered for raids Classic/BC, when smitespec > shadowi n BC, PVPwise all BC- mid LK, no aoe until LK, our dps when TOC just came out... Whatever, spriest is a against all odds spec, or against all stigma and nerf spec. Our dps is earned and thorougly managed (multidotting/swp,vt always up on all targets). I only know 2 instances where our dps was amazing, LK fight (mindsear works on the ghosts, no else could do that, so why were people hating on us bc our dmg was so high on LK) and 4.0.6 pre-hotfix.

    I find using an spriest rewarding over my mage which (seriously) isn't that hard at all to pull high numbers, I even went arcane in 4.0.3 for a challenge. I haven't played my lock in cata so I can't say anything.

    Side note: 25 to 15%? WTF while locks still hold 25% shadow mastery. Aren't we suppose to be the true "shadow masters". I'd rather have base dot dmg reduced like what they did with aff locks.

    Then again, whatever, we're spriests. We've been dealing with nerfs and "underppoweredness" for a long time, but I'll still stand by this spec. /rant

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Once again, I refer to heroic content because that is where the best players generally are. If blizzard balanced their games around the average players it would be horribly balanced, as classes that were more difficult to play would be super imbalanced when played by an exceptional player. Case in point? Hunters in arena. Your average hunter isnt very good at arena, but an exceptional hunter is downright scary... but it is also extremely difficult to play that well, there is a large gap between the top and the average.

    Imagine if Starcraft 2 was balanced around the average gold player instead of the top players. The same thing applies here.

    Anyway, in regards to you admitting you are in fact trolling, I prefer to just make the trolls look foolish than try to troll. You made my job pretty easy tonight.
    As an answer why you want blizzard to "balance" around best content is.. 10% will ever see that content? That is 90% of the P A Y I N G people should not be balanced at? Strange...

    Your example with Star Craft is poo. SC is considered as an eSport where WoW, luckely, is not. Balancing is slightly different. Last but not least. SC balance aroudnd 'fixed' units possiblities not a player who can have a zillion possiblities, talents, gear etc. and on top of that .. pvp.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    yep, all the ferals are rerolling huntards now. fotm ftw.
    Actually just started going into PvP with my Feral, abandoning the Hunter I used to play. Now a fulltime Feral (Was already specced into Tank and OS Healer for PvE, so I didn't have the queue times my hunter was having ^_^)

  5. #105
    The shadow priest buff/nerf cycle:
    Being underpowered for 6 months in ToC, no problem.
    Being overpowered for 2 days, hotfix nerfed.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucapa View Post
    The shadow priest buff/nerf cycle:
    Being underpowered for 6 months in ToC, no problem.
    Being overpowered for 2 days, hotfix nerfed.
    ^This. So, fucking, hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Eminus View Post
    As an answer why you want blizzard to "balance" around best content is.. 10% will ever see that content? That is 90% of the P A Y I N G people should not be balanced at? Strange...

    Your example with Star Craft is poo. SC is considered as an eSport where WoW, luckely, is not. Balancing is slightly different. Last but not least. SC balance aroudnd 'fixed' units possiblities not a player who can have a zillion possiblities, talents, gear etc. and on top of that .. pvp.
    You dont seem to understand... you arent balancing around the content you are balancing around the players. Lets use a pug heroic 5 man group for an example. Take any great DPS and put them with the subpar DPS, and it would appear you have to nerf the class the great player is playing purely because hes actually playing well.

    Keeping that example in mind, where can you turn to look at a whole group of really solid players? You look at the people doing the hardest content. When they try to balance arena, they dont balance around the worst %, they balance around the top % (anything from looking at what compositions the top % use to how strong each individual class is). Its not the content, its the source of essentially guaranteed high quality players.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    If spriests were OP then why do hunters go untouched?
    There nerfing Aimed shot..

  9. #109
    It's actually ~8% nerf. L2math.

    10k DPS pre Shadow benefit = 12.5k DPS with 25% specialization = 11.5k DPS with 15% specialization = 8% nerf.

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucapa View Post
    The shadow priest buff/nerf cycle:
    Being underpowered for 6 months in ToC, no problem.
    Being overpowered for 2 days, hotfix nerfed.
    what I said in a rant, you summed it up perfectly. touche

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Heilige View Post
    It's actually ~8% nerf. L2math.

    10k DPS pre Shadow benefit = 12.5k DPS with 25% specialization = 11.5k DPS with 15% specialization = 8% nerf.
    And that would be fine except that all testing i have done and reports from other players indicate that its more like a 10-15% overall loss in dps. Personally my dps seems to be back around where it was before the buff we supposedly needed.

    I am very sceptical that blizzard researched and analyzed all the dps data and concieved and implemented a reasonable fix within 3 days time. They sure can't fix anything else that fast.

    The very fact that the original patch was a somewhat logical buff to specific spells and the nerf is just a blanket % reduction to the entire shadow tree just does not seem well thought out.

    Priests were rolling with numerous bugs since cata dropped and it took months to fix it, then only 3 days to slap down a global dps nerf undoing the rather needed mind sear buff along the way.

    Waiting on the blue post that says "Whoops we accidentally nerfed shadow power to 5% instead of 15%. ETA of fix 6 months <3 ghostcrawler..."

    Don't get me wrong we needed a nerf... well mindblast sure did... but this is too much.

    L2not believe anything blizz says.

  12. #112
    Guys, lets organize a protest in front of Blizzard's headquarter.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    http://stateofdps.com/index.php?raid...s=200&spec=dps
    25 man heroic content, shadow priest ranks:
    BWD
    -----------
    3rd
    2nd
    2nd
    5th
    4th
    2nd

    BoT
    -----------------
    7th
    3rd
    5th

    Not a single fight are we #1 in (these are averages from RECENT logs from post patch too). Overall we are ranked "2nd", however with the nerf it looks to be a flat 8% decrease in damage. Which lowers us from "2nd" all the way down to 8th.

    Potential post patch ranks (assuming it really is an 8% flat decrease in damage)
    BWD
    -----------
    7th
    5th
    11th
    12th
    9th
    2nd

    BoT
    ------------
    14th
    6th
    8th

    Yay for being back to middle of the pack again.
    I'm looking at the same site you are, at it's telling me that Spriests will be in 5th place in overall and in the excluding Halfus column. This does not account for the fact that several of the specs (Unholy, Balance) you will fall below ALSO got hotfix nerfs.

    I'm going to be honest with you "Yay for being back to middle of the pack again." Tells me you have no idea what class balance is, you're SUPPOSED to be in the middle of the pack, if you're not then you need an adjustment. Blizzard rarely bothers to balance within 10% accuracy any way (IE pick the highest and the lowest comparable specs they will rarely be within 10% of each other on the same boss). If you only get a 8% nerf you're not going to fall to the bottom, the bottom is quite a bit farther away than that before Blizzard bothers to make an adjustment. According to the website YOU provided it would take a 20% nerf to bring Spriests below Elemental Shaman (a hybrid spell DPS spec just like shadow). The sky is not falling.
    Last edited by Fornaw; 2011-02-13 at 08:06 AM.
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    I pity people who have gotten so insensate to disrespect and abuse from repetition that they have elevated being jaded to a virtue.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornaw View Post
    I'm looking at the same site you are, at it's telling me that Spriests will be in 5th place in overall and in the excluding Halfus column. This does not account for the fact that several of the specs (Unholy, Balance) you will fall below ALSO got hotfix nerfs.

    I'm going to be honest with you "Yay for being back to middle of the pack again." Tells me you have no idea what class balance is, you're SUPPOSED to be in the middle of the pack, if you're not then you need an adjustment. Blizzard rarely bothers to balance within 10% accuracy any way (IE pick the highest and the lowest comparable specs they will rarely be within 10% of each other on the same boss). If you only get a 8% nerf you're not going to fall to the bottom, the bottom is quite a bit farther away than that before Blizzard bothers to make an adjustment. According to the website YOU provided it would take a 20% nerf to bring Spriests below Elemental Shaman (a hybrid spell DPS spec just like shadow). The sky is not falling.
    and therein lies the flaw of your argument. Those numbers are based around having Dark Intent. not all spriests have dark intent. Nerfing our flat dps screws up alot of other aspects of the game , like mind sear going back to uselessness, pvp , leveling , 10man content where people do not have warlocks. Shadow did not need a nerf. Dark Intent needed to not increase periodic damage of the recipient. If that change was implemented THEN and only then can we check the numbers to see if shadow needed a nerf. This change is just plain laziness on the part of the balancing department.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornaw View Post
    I'm looking at the same site you are, at it's telling me that Spriests will be in 5th place in overall and in the excluding Halfus column. This does not account for the fact that several of the specs (Unholy, Balance) you will fall below ALSO got hotfix nerfs.

    I'm going to be honest with you "Yay for being back to middle of the pack again." Tells me you have no idea what class balance is, you're SUPPOSED to be in the middle of the pack, if you're not then you need an adjustment. Blizzard rarely bothers to balance within 10% accuracy any way (IE pick the highest and the lowest comparable specs they will rarely be within 10% of each other on the same boss). If you only get a 8% nerf you're not going to fall to the bottom, the bottom is quite a bit farther away than that before Blizzard bothers to make an adjustment. According to the website YOU provided it would take a 20% nerf to bring Spriests below Elemental Shaman (a hybrid spell DPS spec just like shadow). The sky is not falling.
    Without DI, shadow priests are a smidgen higher than elemental shaman (within about 100dps). Why does a hybrid spell dps spec have to be ~10% behind a pure dps (or way more than 10% in the case of fire mages/warlocks)? Why does everybody continue to insist on this hybrid tax? Why cant they all be close? Why is it wrong for a shadow priest to be #2 dps? Am I not a DPS when I am shadow?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by jonish View Post
    and therein lies the flaw of your argument. Those numbers are based around having Dark Intent. not all spriests have dark intent. Nerfing our flat dps screws up alot of other aspects of the game , like mind sear going back to uselessness, pvp , leveling , 10man content where people do not have warlocks. Shadow did not need a nerf. Dark Intent needed to not increase periodic damage of the recipient. If that change was implemented THEN and only then can we check the numbers to see if shadow needed a nerf. This change is just plain laziness on the part of the balancing department.
    Without Dark Intent you should still be above Elemental, where you would stand in comparison to Balance is hard to say since they got their own hotfix. In general it looks like Shadow nerfed and without Dark Intent may be 1 or 2 percent below the hybrid average after the nerfs to DKs and Balance druids shake out. Blizzard has never cared about 1 or 2 percent, I highly doubt a guild which doesn't raid with a Warlock at all cares about 1 or 2 percent either.[COLOR="red"]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    Without DI, shadow priests are a smidgen higher than elemental shaman (within about 100dps). Why does a hybrid spell dps spec have to be ~10% behind a pure dps (or way more than 10% in the case of fire mages/warlocks)? Why does everybody continue to insist on this hybrid tax? Why cant they all be close? Why is it wrong for a shadow priest to be #2 dps? Am I not a DPS when I am shadow?
    A separate issue, and one I don't really disagree on. Personally I've always thought that placement on a DPS meter should be as close to a skill ranking as possible, this of course requires removing hybrid tax and making significant adjustments to the skill caps of various specs. However as long as Blizzard insists on a hybrid tax and as long as they are too lazy (or perhaps greedy) to adjust skillcaps it's best to compare yourself to the most apt specs when judging the fairness of a nerf. The most apt specs for a Spriest are Elemental Shaman and Balance Druids. On some fights you should also be able to compare to melee hybrids.

    Keep in mind that in the current game there are a fair few specs which look at Shadow, with or without DI, and see a spec that they cannot really compete with. That's not class balance. Then the question becomes what is to be done; does Shadow need a nerf or do those specs need a buff? In this case it would appear Blizzard decided to nerf Shadow and not to buff the others. It's one thing to debate the merits of the various design issues and intents which make only a handful of specs true competitors with each other. It's another thing to complain about "unfair" nerfs which put you in line with your competition as outlined by Blizzard.
    Last edited by Fornaw; 2011-02-13 at 08:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I pity people who have gotten so insensate to disrespect and abuse from repetition that they have elevated being jaded to a virtue.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornaw View Post
    Without Dark Intent you should still be above Elemental, where you would stand in comparison to Balance is hard to say since they got their own hotfix. In general it looks like Shadow nerfed and without Dark Intent may be 1 or 2 percent below the hybrid average after the nerfs to DKs and Balance druids shake out. Blizzard has never cared about 1 or 2 percent, I highly doubt a guild which doesn't raid with a Warlock at all cares about 1 or 2 percent either.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-13 at 08:45 AM ----------



    A separate issue, and one I don't really disagree on. Personally I've always thought that placement on a DPS meter should be as close to a skill ranking as possible, this of course requires removing hybrid tax and making significant adjustments to the skill caps of various specs. However as long as Blizzard insists on a hybrid tax and as long as they are too lazy (or perhaps greedy) to adjust skillcaps it's best to compare yourself to the most apt specs when judging the fairness of a nerf. The most apt specs for a Spriest are Elemental Shaman and Balance Druids. On some fights you should also be able to compare to melee hybrids.
    I thought blizzard was doing away with the hybrid tax though with that whole "bring the player not the class" methodology though... this being further emphasized when buffs became more homogenized resulting in hybrids bringing even less of a unique role to a raid.

    It just doesnt make sense to me, moreso it doesnt make sense why everybody was saying "yea you deserve the nerf because you were destroying damage meters" when the reality is we were just competing at the top among several different classes. Moonkins, dks, mages and warlocks were all right up there with us, with hunters/rogues/warriors a bit behind, and if SP doesnt have DI on them, then the first 4 are all ahead and the priest is with the hunters/rogues/warriors.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    I thought blizzard was doing away with the hybrid tax though with that whole "bring the player not the class" methodology though... this being further emphasized when buffs became more homogenized resulting in hybrids bringing even less of a unique role to a raid.

    It just doesnt make sense to me, moreso it doesnt make sense why everybody was saying "yea you deserve the nerf because you were destroying damage meters" when the reality is we were just competing at the top among several different classes. Moonkins, dks, mages and warlocks were all right up there with us, with hunters/rogues/warriors a bit behind, and if SP doesnt have DI on them, then the first 4 are all ahead and the priest is with the hunters/rogues/warriors.
    Meanwhile Mookins, DKs, Hunters and Warriors all got adjustments as well. Given that you group yourself with everyone else that got a hotfix, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to get a hotfix. "Bring the Player" was a WotLK invention, the further buff homogenization of Cataclysm was simply a response to an effort in Cataclysm to make 10 mans a more legitimate form of raid, not an excuse to do away with the hybrid tax.

    The proof that a hybrid tax still exists is inference of course. Most hybrids were below most pures prior to 4.06. The hybrids who were sitting equal to pures had downward damage adjustments, the pures who were sitting amongst the hybrids had upward damage adjustments. The net result makes it hard to believe Blizzard isn't still intending for mages, warlocks, hunters and rogues to do more damage than everyone else.
    Last edited by Fornaw; 2011-02-13 at 09:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I pity people who have gotten so insensate to disrespect and abuse from repetition that they have elevated being jaded to a virtue.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer View Post
    If spriests were OP then why do hunters go untouched?
    Way reading skills you show here...

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Way reading skills you show here...
    I agree, my reading skills are quite good. You should examine yours though, as the post actually says that they will LOOK INTO nerfing aimed shot and buffing someplace else to compensate. Net result of a nerf with a buff to compensate? Essentially going untouched. Regardless, I have been proven (or rather, showed myself through further examination) later on in this thread that hunters are not the endall dps.

    Good to know people can continue to try and harp on me for that one post though.

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