Healing Spell Priority

[Perversion]

First off, im looking for tips and opinions for 10m raids because im having some issues with situational spell priority. In 25s, from what i see from wowlogs, theyre are usually 2 holy pallies to depend on each other for a more relaxed heal assignment. 10s, however, im with a resto shaman and holy priest. I understand that im the main source of tank heals, but im quite good at hitting the raid as well. I guess my first question is how much attention should the other healers pay to the tanks on a regular basis? i sometimes think to myself "maybe if the others hit the tanks a bit more, i could relax a bit more and fall into a good priority rotation?". instead, i find myself using Flash of Light way more than people tell me im supposed to. Id like to fall into a nice Divine Light groove with the basic priorty heals behind it, but i seem to just spam FoL whenever it starts getting rough. Tho it is a beefy spell, the mana cost quickly becomes too great to spam and im yellin out for innervates....not good.

Light of Dawn is my next issue. i have no complaints with the way its supposed to work, but 3 things: 1.) somehow standing 10 yrds away, facing my targets to hit, it hit none of them, 2.) it many times shoots out sideways, or my new fav since the patch, right underground beneath my feet, and 3.) its hopeful success vs. a guaranteed WoG hit, possibly using 0 holy power and hitting it again. i heal at least 12k to 14k on a dmg heavy boss fight without using LoD and rarely using Holy Radiance out of fear of going oom quicker than i already seem to do.

I guess my other question seems to be where is FoL best used and what to do immediately after, keeping in mind its time to pop Divine Plea after spamming expensive spells for 30 secs. Should i strictly just stay on tanks and only spot heal? Im at Cho'gall now and im going oom when hes at 41%....Please shoot me any tips you guys may have for situational priority. Thanx

[Simca]

Hi Perversion!

I run a semi-similar 10-man setup to you - 2 Holy Paladins and 1 Holy Priest. I am one of the Holy Paladins (of course). I try to raid-heal as often as I can, but the important thing is to make sure your Beacon is always hitting two people if at all possible. As for Flash of Light, try to cut back on its usage as much as possible. I think you'll find a lot of it can be done with just Holy Shock, Holy Light, Word of Glory, and Divine Light. Flash of Light should be a last resort.

As for Light of Dawn, it is okay for now to stay away from it until a patch improves it for us. As for Holy Radiance, it is a very, very important spell. I'd use it whenever 5 or more people are going to be close to together.

An important concept that a lot of Holy Paladins don't seem to grasp is the concept "Always Cast Something". If nobody is taking any damage, keep casting Holy Lights, Holy Shocks, and Judgements. This will help you regen mana and keep your mastery shields up, along with keeping your Holy Power saved up for a rainy day.

- Simca

[Maricius]

Or better yet instead of overhealing just to keep a shield on 2k up you could meele the boss and gain tons of mana

[RoboA]

simca please explain why constantly casting will help mana. I raid with a holy paladin myself and i dont see how casting increase my mana regen (except for holy shocks for stacking HP).

[Deleted]

simca please explain why constantly casting will help mana. I raid with a holy paladin myself and i dont see how casting increase my mana regen (except for holy shocks for stacking HP).

Casting Holy Shock will grant Holy Power
Casting Judgement will give mana
Casting Holy Light costs very little mana, and gives Mastery Shield. Also with the spell doing not that much healing, and having a 2 second cast (approx with raid buffs), then it very rarely goes to Overhealing because of Tanks taking melee swings etc.

It usually better to be casting something than nothing at all. If Holy Light will go 95% to overheal or something silly (very rarely this happens though) then it isn't difficult to cancel the cast with 0.2 seconds left and then recast it. Quite a few paladins i know (myself included) make sure we are constantly casting something and then will just cancel and recast if it will go mostly to overheal..

I understand that im the main source of tank heals, but im quite good at hitting the raid as well. I guess my first question is how much attention should the other healers pay to the tanks on a regular basis?

Beacon of Light is actually a very good way to tank heal. It is quite easy to spot heal the raid whilst 50% of that healing goes the tank. Yes you will still need to cast Holy Lights/Holy Shocks/WoG on the tank, but it is better from a mana and healing PoV if you can heal the tank as much as possible using BoL.

[RoboA]

Thanks Ishau for the explanation, thats basicly how i heal when there is "down" time on bosses. Just wanted to know if there was some kind of extra mana benefit that i had completly overlooked

[Maricius]

Keep 3 hp whit holy shock and then auto attack the boss spamming holy light when no one is taking dmg is pointless and waste instead of gaining the mana you get from auto hits... if you then suddenly need to heal you have 25k wg and a 10k holy shock and hopefully a 0.9 sec caster after that... spamming holy light is stupid and pointless if it aint needed.

[Inkompetent]

As the lone hpala in my 10-man raids, usually with either a druid and a shaman, or two shamans as other healers, I'm also the obvious tank healer. Most often it's one shaman on one tank, and me on one tank.

Depending on fight I either beacon the shaman's tank to let him raid-heal more and focus healing on my assigned tank, or I beacon my tank and heal the raid as much as I can. Holy Shock and Word of Glory almost exclusively on raid, Divine Light on the tank when needed (to help build Holy Power), and Holy Light where it's needed.

Method of healing pretty much depends on expected tank damage vs raid damage. With the druid active I get quite a lot more spare time on the raid as well thanks to HoTs.

[Deleted]

Beacon of Light is actually a very good way to tank heal. It is quite easy to spot heal the raid whilst 50% of that healing goes the tank. Yes you will still need to cast Holy Lights/Holy Shocks/WoG on the tank, but it is better from a mana and healing PoV if you can heal the tank as much as possible using BoL.

This is exactly the opposite of what I do and imagine is best when the tank is beaconed.
I only cast Divine Lights on the tank. And holy light, hs and wog I reserve for the raid.
This way I can make use of tower of radiance for exta holy power. Holy shock generates holy power no matter on who I cast it so I prefer to cast it on a non-beacon target as it procs beacon on tank.
I only lose the beacon heal from divine light this way but I gain beacon heals from holy light, hs and wog, and I gain holy power generation from tor.
I think it is comparable with the way I (and I think most holy paladins) heal a 5 man heroic.
Please explain to me how you get to a completely different rotation of these specific spells.

[Inkompetent]

Considering the mana cost on Divine Light I'd prefer to get as much out of it as possible. Full effect on the tank, and some Holy Power, seems like quite a good deal to me, since the tank usually takes damage in much larger chunks than the rest of the raid does (and is higher priority).

[Deleted]

Please explain to me how you get to a completely different rotation of these specific spells.

I never said i didn't cast Divine Light on the Beacon Target. I just didn't include the full details.

I think for the most part though you simply just miss-understood what i said, though that might be my fault with wording.

Just ignore my previous post and i'll word it better.

My healing style, is BoL on tank, and i constantly cast Holy Light, Word of Glory, Holy Shock on the raid, 50% of that goes towards keeping the tank up. There will still be times that i need to cast Holy Lights/Shocks/WoG on the tank because there will be occasions where the Tank is the only one taking damage, or needing the extra heals. I didn't mean that the only person i cast those spells on was the Beacon target, i simpley meant that at times or low raid damage, you will still need to heal the tank that way..

As for Divine Light, it all depends on the situation. Sometimes it will be worth more when cast on the Beacon Target for the extra holy power. Sometimes it'll be worth more in terms of HPS if you cast it on a raid member who is quite low in health. Its all situational. Saying that you only cast Divine Lights on the tank is a very bad move, as quite often the extra Holy Power generation just isn't worth it.



Also

I think it is comparable with the way I (and I think most holy paladins) heal a 5 man heroic.

5 man heroics aren't usually what we are talking about. You could easily run all heroics never casting a Divine Light. The first thing the OP said was

im looking for tips and opinions for 10m raids because im having some issues with situational spell priority

therefore you should assume that the vast majority is talking about 10 man raids, and not 5 man heroics.

[Deleted]

Saying that you only cast Divine Lights on the tank is a very bad move, as quite often the extra Holy Power generation just isn't worth it.

Also
5 man heroics aren't usually what we are talking about. You could easily run all heroics never casting a Divine Light. The first thing the OP said was therefore you should assume that the vast majority is talking about 10 man raids, and not 5 man heroics.

Ok that cleared some things up but you have misread me aswell with above quotes. I was talking about my ideal rotation as well, so divine light will be used on the raid when nessecary. our priorities seem to be quite different nonetheless.
I know we are talking about raids; me mentioning a heroic was to make a comparison for easier understanding but I guess it worked out the opposite.

btw if i'd never use divine light in heroic pugs or bad guild runs the party wouldnt last long. Wildy underestimating heroics isnt helping anyone.

Basically my intention with my question was a constructive and not a critical one: I want to understand other holy pala's reasoning as I need to up my game. I'm not healing as much as I feel I should.

---------- Post added 2011-02-12 at 04:20 PM ----------

Considering the mana cost on Divine Light I'd prefer to get as much out of it as possible. Full effect on the tank, and some Holy Power, seems like quite a good deal to me, since the tank usually takes damage in much larger chunks than the rest of the raid does (and is higher priority).

When you are on tank duty and tank is beaconed, do you get more out of divine light by getting 1 holy power and a bit of spike damage control or by the 50% extra heal from beacon? Is that a matter of preference or are there some hard numbers on it?
Again on tank duty; when is it better to beacon the other tank and when to beacon your own tank.

[Perversion]

Hey guys, im really diggin the feedback, but id like to clarify a few things. First and foremost im definitely ALWAYS beaconing the tank and using my holy shock. its easily the best way to get Holy Power for my WoG. I definitely keep conviction up 3x throughout the fights. Id like to say im using Holy Light more as you say, but its just too weak of a spell thats too slow in times of need. My post is about 2 things really. 1.) what spell do i fall back on when its time to get dirty, and 2.) should raid healz be keeping an eye on tanks as well. Unfortunately, Simca, our raid heals are extremely different. im sure if i had 2 holy pallies, this post wouldnt exist, lol!! Believe me when i say that im easily going thru the motions of casting the tried and true spells when its an easy fight, but in fights like Cho'gall, where theres just dmg flyin at all times, i keep finding myself left with FoL as the only thing quick enough to save people from death. (maybe i need to find better raid healers?) I wasnt clear in my earlier post....this isnt really about tanks as opposed to tanks + raid. I definitely spot heal the raid, but i may go overboard using the most inefficient spell possible. I do try to use HR at times, but no way can i use it throughout an entire fight, until 4 set maybe. Elemental Monstrosity, for example... P3 when a player gets down to 10% really quickly, i think to myself "Oh god, hes gonna die!!" and i instinctively cast 3 FoL to get them up to par. in that situation, whats a better way to save a life? thats where im stuck. In rough situations, what spell is best to fall back on. Holy Shock, HL arent big enough to heal them thru the next inc dmg and only wastes GCD's to do minimal heals, whereas FoL get the job done....Like I said, if i had 2 holy pallies, wed be jammin, but i have a resto shaman and holy priest to depend on. I guess i just find myself doing too much.

[Simca]

1. The thing is that FoL will save you temporarily, sure. However, 10 seconds later, you'll be struggling on mana and people will still have low HP. In the situation you purposed, the best way to save a life is usually Flash of Light --> Divine Light --> Holy Light.

2. Your other healers' classes don't sound like what is limiting their ability, no offense to them. It sounds like a classic case of "I'm doing poorly so I'm going to blame my class/Blizzard", which happens very, very, very often. Despite what people on these forums will tell you, the healing classes are reasonably balanced. Yes, it's probably harder to do well as a Resto Shaman compared to a Holy Priest, but honestly, the difference is not larger than 10%, maybe 20% ABSOLUTE max. People blame their class for their own shortcomings because it is easy to blame somebody else rather than try to improve their-selves. We are all human after all, and all make lots of mistakes.


There's definitely a lot of self-training involved in stopping yourself from just spam-healing everyone to full because you'll end up OOM that way.

As for my earlier comment, spam healing with Holy Light is always a good idea. You keep up Mastery shields, you keep up Conviction, you keep up Heartsong or Power Torrent. If you're 100% sure the Holy Light cast will go to waste (and Heartsong is still on ICD, etc.), then jump cancel at the last second, like Ishau suggests.

[Perversion]

Simca, I agree with you 100%. i didnt mean to come off sounding like im blaming the other healers. I apologize for that. I think for the most part healers are balanced and nerfs go out to balance when needed. I could just be like a majority of others and start flappin my gums about nerfs and whatnot, but id much rather spend my time trying to get better. The statement you made about FoL>DL>HL was exactly what i came here looking for. I cant find any decent 10m raid stats to base what people are doing in big heal situations and you just helped me a bunch. Ill try to give HL more of a chance, but honestly, it scares me to rely on a long cast for such a small amount, but i understand the mastery reasoning posted above as well. Since LoD no longer hits the beacon, i may give that up almost altogether, and ill definitely you advice on HR use. I can easily unlearn my spamming of FoL, as i always knew it was wrong to use so much in the first place. Simca, youre a life savor, and if theres anything else you can add in tricky siuational healspots it'd be much appreciated.

Thanx to all who posted and plz feel free to post any additions you might think can help me more.

-Perv-

[Simca]

No worries, I wasn't implying you were blaming the other healers. I was implying that the other healers may be blaming their class for their shortcomings.

Something would have to be very wrong for me to imply a poster on these forums was a bad player.

[Firecrest]

The statement you made about FoL>DL>HL was exactly what i came here looking for.

You are coming at healing from a DPS perspective. This will do you much more harm than good. Words like "rotation" and "priority" are not terms that should be used in any sort of healing discussion. Healing is about using the right tool for the right job. Without context, no one can ever tell you what spell you should be using.

Beyond that, FoL is useless outside of Chimerion. Seriously. Remove it from your bars otherwise. I can kind of see where Simca was coming from with this "FoL>DL>HL" nonsense, but it's not what you came here looking for and you've clearly taken it too much to heart. Besides FoL being garbage, you've left out HS and WoG from a discussion about quick healing.

Look. Bottom line. HL heals a little and DL heals a lot. One is used when a person needs a little and one is used when they need a lot. I'm sure you can figure out which goes where.

[Deleted]

You have to take into question the GCD on abilities. You just can't spare using a GCD on lets say, HS, WoG or Judgement during periods of intensive damage on tanks (Halfus). Those 1.5 seconds of not being able to cast anything can seriously risk you of losing a tank. I for one during the first minutes of Halfus, I practically do continuous chains of Divine Lights or Holy Lights on both tanks not wasting a single GCD on instants, except LoH seeing how it ignores the GCD now.

[Simca]

You have to take into question the GCD on abilities. You just can't spare using a GCD on lets say, HS, WoG or Judgement during periods of intensive damage on tanks (Halfus). Those 1.5 seconds of not being able to cast anything can seriously risk you of losing a tank. I for one during the first minutes of Halfus, I practically do continuous chains of Divine Lights or Holy Lights on both tanks not wasting a single GCD on instants, except LoH seeing how it ignores the GCD now.

It's true. I sometimes do the same thing (ignoring non-HLs/DLs), but I am trying to cut back on doing that. I feel that even sneaking a few Holy Shocks in will seriously help when the time does come to move so I can Holy Shock --> Word of Glory.

[Perversion]

Yeah, i agree with you guys. as i said b4, i made this post with full assumption that the basics of healing (HS and WoG) were understood. this isnt a post about general healing. its more of a post about what to do when things are rough and FoL being a baddie. Trust me, I know how to heal properly and im just looking for some insight on what others are doing that i might be missing. HS, WoG, DL, Beacon.....i want everyone to assume before posting that i know all the basics and am just looking for situational tips, not general tips. I faught Cho'gall again tonite and did much, much better manawise, so im definitely soaking up the info youre all posting. I only used FoL once or twice to save a life, but went back to DL and HL immediately after, which was my biggest problem. It wont even matter in a year when holy pallies have 45% crit again lol