Blizzard, no direction of what they want the fury spec to be?

[HolgerDK]

IMO they have switched scaling too well with ArP to (maybe) scaling too well with mastery.

Just like when they did -10% damage on TG nerf and then in the same breath changed Imp. berserker stance from +10% AP to +20% STR.
That gave us 4 times as much AP from Imp. Berserkerstance than before and made us scale even better, even though Blizzard thought we scaled to much with gear than before the TG nerf.

That didnt really improve my confidence in their ability to balance warriors.

[Bucky Mclachlan]

One thing confused me in a blue they made a day or two ago discussing the position of warriors in raids and one of their arguments for why they were happy where warrior dps are right now was because "they will scale well".

This is largely because of our mastery I'd assume but it just made me wonder, wasn't the big reason behind rage normalisation and the removal of arp to stop scaling getting out of control? I thought their design intent was to prevent us from being crap in the first tier and godly in the last and keep us being competitive throughout? It seems as if they've shifted our scaling from one form to another and to admit that makes it appear like this was their design intent.

Their intent is to make you think they are competent enough to balance this game. The truth is that it's all smoke and mirrors and easy to see through.

[Aurora]

Their intent is to make you think they are competent enough to balance this game. The truth is that it's all smoke and mirrors and easy to see through.

Would appear so.

My reading into it was their initial cata stats were built relatively sustainably for the expansion with scaling in mind. The problem for us here was our damage was quite poor, the problem for them was everybody was ignoring mastery; their "new" stat and something they seem quite keen to make desirable for everybody. So they buffed that to a level that is probably beyond sustainable in future tiers in order to get us using it now, and essentially they've built a platform around this mastery where they'll continuously have to nerf it each tier to stop us getting out of control particularly in PvP.

Another thing they said pre-cata was they wanted to make haste more desirable for us and yet while making drastic action to do this for mastery they seem happy for haste to not be a worthwhile stat still.

[Aurora]

That sounds right for me... It was too painful to play Fury anymore... On top of feeling like I'm useless to the raid (any other DPS class offers something, CC/Threat Drop). A warrior has its mobility and its interrupts.. and in most cases the mobility isn't really helping it too much (Ranged DPS don't need mobility to close gaps) and almost every class and the tank can interrupt anyways, hell Enhancement Shamans are the kings of that. But what happens whenever we switch targets too fast and pull threat? Well we either die or give a healer or tank a headache. Every class I know has something to either minimize the damage or reduce their threat or negate threat altogether or something!

Anyways, I've gone Prot. Not only has the Fury Rotation gotten continously clunky, its extreme dependence on Hit depresses me now. I just can't enjoy that kind of PVE. Cleaving the crap out of stuff with Whirlwind was FUN in Wrath. It felt like our /thing/. Why bring a fury warrior? Well if there's more than 1 mob in the fight they're gonna wreck shit!

Now it's: Why bring a warrior?
I dunno, they do good dps?
Ok but why not bring a rogue?
Good point.

Exactly it, I loved how whirlwind and cleave worked in wrath. Sure we suffered on single target bosses and couldn't aoe but when it came to packs we were unquestionably kings, we had our niche and it was a niche that nobody could touch. There were bosses where as a raid leader you would want to go out of your way to ensure you had some fury warriors in there, like on the valks at LK. Getting them bunched together and absolutely nothing could wreck them as quickly as a fury warrior could.

It's sad that I can't think of anything that we're the masters of anymore. DKs have us beat for damage, shaman are better intteruptors, they all have better survival, we don't have anywhere near the utility other classes have. The only thing we seem to be unthoucable at is having the highest threat.

Personally I'd love if blizzard backtracked and built our rotation around whirlwind again and re-established our niche again. It'd tackle the problems of mastery scaling by removing raging blow and fury's niche in fell swoop.

[Bucky Mclachlan]

Would appear so.

My reading into it was their initial cata stats were built relatively sustainably for the expansion with scaling in mind. The problem for us here was our damage was quite poor, the problem for them was everybody was ignoring mastery; their "new" stat and something they seem quite keen to make desirable for everybody. So they buffed that to a level that is probably beyond sustainable in future tiers in order to get us using it now, and essentially they've built a platform around this mastery where they'll continuously have to nerf it each tier to stop us getting out of control particularly in PvP.

Another thing they said pre-cata was they wanted to make haste more desirable for us and yet while making drastic action to do this for mastery they seem happy for haste to not be a worthwhile stat still.

Truthfully, warrior were pretty terrible before the 4.0.6 patch, they were barely above hunters as far as 1800+ arena goes, and anything below that doesn't represent players playing at their best and is hardly a good place to look out for balancing. They aren't going to be any better after patch, arms is downright unplayable in 2400+ arena, fury is a gimmick spec that is easily overcome and all in all, rather clunky to play in pvp.

[petninja]

It's sad that I can't think of anything that we're the masters of anymore. DKs have us beat for damage, shaman are better intteruptors, they all have better survival, we don't have anywhere near the utility other classes have. The only thing we seem to be unthoucable at is having the highest threat.

Don't forget forum QQ. Warriors totally imba there.

[wind]

after six long years... thes changes made me reroll to a rogue. I LOVED being a warrior and its not the same class. Maybe i'll come back when blizz stops using us as ragdolls.

clearly you never played shaman.

[Deleted]

clearly you never played shaman.

I have alternated maining a warrior and a shaman ... years of goddamn grief...so I too feel your pain.

Actually I played a lock in vanilla which was roflcakes before the TBC godmode.

Actually, I think Arms should be redesigned as a 'field commander' type tree, with utility, control and buffs. Makes it more of a disciplined warrior than lolstorming with a 2handed weapon.

[Aurora]

Personally I think Arms was fine being seen as a PvP spec with situational AoE and/or bleed use in PvE. I know some people would like to see arms competitive in PvE but given how incompetent blizzard are I think they should be grateful to be useful in any capacity in the game. I thought arms was perfect before 4.0.6, competitive in arena and the dominant warrior pvp spec, it had its place in the game.

[Aurora]

At the very least from the look of the 4.1 changes Warrior dps are getting far more attention than any others, seems at least they're acknowledging our class is a wretched mess.

[Uricidea]

The state of the Warrior class is indeed a mess. But not from any incompetence (That comment above was laughable) on BLizzards part, but from the communities expectations. It is basically "If we can't be OP wreckers, we are broken". Sitting around blaming Blizz because we're not face-roll easy topping the meters like we were in Wrath is pathetic.

I have one 'Toon @ 85; a Warrior. I have played since BC. I spec Arms/Prot and everything is fine. I have never been benched because of DPS or the lack of. I save my cool downs until Aggro is firmly established. I target the correct mob. I interrupt at the appropriate moments. It's all good. You guy just don't remember what is was like before Wrath, or you don't care to.

GO back to the dummies and find a rotation that smooths out your DPS. Look at your Talent Trees to see how you can spec. for more utility (yes even at the expense of some DPS). The Direction of Fury Warrior is turning out to be "Crybaby" if you ask me.

[Aurora]

Personally I think we have a good reason to QQ. Fury I think "should" be seen as a high damage spec and should be one of the hardest hitters in the game. Why? Because fury has very little else to bring to a raid in terms of utility, the only other "special" thing we used to do with our niche of 3/4 targets which was also taken away. It left us in a position of being undesirable for raids which is something Blizz obviously noticed with the new raid cooldown.

Other things people are "crying" about like rage problems, annoying RNG for enrages impacting our rotation, weak AoE, no CC, no threat drop are all legitimate complaints but they're freaking annoying shit other classes don't have to deal with.

[Uricidea]

Every time I challenge you guys you say the same thing. RNG, Weak AoE, No CC... Yet you rule out taking any utility talents because it'll weaken your DPS. Self Fulfilling Prophesy. You don't think an Arms rotation has those faults? We are based around Proc's and CS just like Fury. Yet it seems fair that Fury should do that much more Damage than Arms. Come on....

What do you suppose an Arms Warrior has over Fury? Bladestorm? That's just as likely to get me killed as anything. Troggs, that's the only thing I can use Bladestorm on. I have suggested Fury guys try out putting some points into Utility talents. I offered Gag Order as one Idea, but was shouted down for even considering it. "It would be a 5 to 7% reduction in DPS". Get your stuff in order rather than mope over your wish list.

[Rosham]

Because your suggestions were useless for raiding, we showed you that with that fact that raid bosses aren't effected by Silence, you have hunters who can use traps from ranged, meaning Piercing Howl is out, and there isn't much else.

Arms is proc based yes, but one of those procs happens every 6 seconds so long as Rend is up, hardly unpredictable, and CS isn't exactly on that long a CD even if you get some bad RNG luck. We aren't talking about the damage output, most agree that we can output some serious damage, but the way in which we do so is a complete mess. Having a 2 button rotation if you get crap RNG isn't exactly fun or engaging, most Furies would just like a rotation which can be relied upon to always have something to do, which currently it doesn't have. Arms has Slam to use as a filler if everything else is on CD or not proc'd yet, Fury doesn't, and is badly lacking that aspect.

The enrage mechanic is, in my opinion, a bad joke which needs removing and just let RB be used 100% of the time, or get rid of it and bring something else back. You say people forget what it was like back before LK, most people would love it to go back to what it was in TBC to a certain extent, it would at least mean we would have a reliable number of buttons to press all the time, unlike now.

And most people's arguments about Fury being higher than Arms in PVE is because Arms has ALWAYS had its ability to rule fairly supreme in PVP (apart from in like one arena seaon), where as if you make Arms the best spec for both PVE and PVP, you have a useless tree sat right in the middle of the warrior talent page. If Blizzard stopped trying to make everything work everywhere the game would likely be much better off. I couldn't careless if Arms became the PVE spec and Fury the PVP one, but trying to pretend they can make both work in either setting is what causes huge issue, and quite often gets people's backs up.

And on top of all that, Blizzard threw in SMF and TG into one tree, which has just caused a headache for most minmaxing raiders. Trying to keep both up to date with weapons in case Blizzard suddenly decides to slap one or the other with a nerf isn't much fun either (you would have thought they would have learnt from Frost in the DK tree which has been plagued by these problems all of LK, and now seems to be re-occurring in Cata).

[cardlol]

I played fury all through BC as well as Wrath and enjoyed myself pretty much the entire time. Transitioning into Cataclysm, I went with my usual route and started to gear up my fury set, but after a mind numbing amount of nerf bats and hot fixes I've shelved my fury spec to instead play protection. It's just not even fun to play fury anymore and with the charge/intercept nerf, even arms has lost most of it's luster..