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  1. #61
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzijderv View Post
    hmm im still hella confused, lets try this another way.

    i myself am a scientist, everything i have learned about life (im a molecular life scientist) leads me to believe there is no higher power. from that deffinition i would be an atheist. however should there ever come a plausible theory (more plausible then for instance evolution) i would exept that theory and the accompanying higher power. where does that put me on gnostic agnostic scales?
    That makes you a very good scientist, and for now, an atheist. Science adjusts its views based on what is observed. If some proof appeared for the existance of God, it would be silly of any atheist to not start believing.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  2. #62
    the problem is that people DO NOT BELIEVE but don't want to be part of "those people" that all their pseudochristian family looks down on

    it's basically a case of "being one of the majority" or not

    real christians are dumb as shit, you have to be, just like we'd think a kid who believe azeroth and the titans were real is dumb.

    the average christian just goes with the flow, refuses to step on toes or be part of the minority, but is no more christian than me or anyone else who thinks it's all a joke

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    I'ma gonna stop you there Lysah and say that I respect you, but I think it's within everybody's right to consider themselves whatever they'd like to when it comes to matters of faith, regardless of the semantic-correctness of their use of any language.
    And if they consider themself agnostic as a term to tell people they don't believe in God, they are wrong. It's akin to telling people I'm a democrat because I don't like Sarah Palin. It's just not at all accurate.

    You're basically saying we can invent terms for what we believe in, regardless of what those terms actually mean, as long as WE know what it means, deep down inside.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    I'ma gonna stop you there Lysah and say that I respect you, but I think it's within everybody's right to consider themselves whatever they'd like to when it comes to matters of faith, regardless of the semantic-correctness of their use of any language.
    Which is just being ignorant of definitions, to be honest. I could do the same thing and go "Instead of saying scissors, I'm going to call it a cow, because I can call it what I like and no one can stop me".
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm View Post
    That's antitheism (which, by the way, is still atheism due to the lack of being a theist).
    Antithesim is a sub division of atheism. Go back and read the entirety of my post, it explains why you're categories are completely wrong.

  6. #66
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryostasis View Post
    Well, depending on whether you think that "higher" power interferes in man's life or not, if you think it does, you would be a deist.
    I'm glad that someone brought this up. In my original post I was going to define theist as "Someone who believes in the existance of God(s), and believes that those God(s) interfere with human relations". But I thought that people would start arguing over that and get away from the original point.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    I'ma gonna stop you there Lysah and say that I respect you, but I think it's within everybody's right to consider themselves whatever they'd like to when it comes to matters of faith, regardless of the semantic-correctness of their use of any language.
    They can think what they like, it doesn't make it right though.

    Just because it's a "matter of faith" doesn't mean it has protection from criticism. It would be like me claiming to be the King of England. I could claim it all I like, and get really upset about it when people question me, but at the end of the day, I still wouldn't be the King of England.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    look, how i learned it is: Theists believe in a god. Atheist believe there is NO god. agnostics don't believe in either, but in fact assume that it's not possible to prove that a god does (not) exist. they can be both theistic or atheistic.

    i personally don't believe in a god. i do believe, however, that there is something higher above us. what, that i don't know. the only thing i know (and not even for sure) is that ,somewhere out there, there is something interfering with every day life in a way incomprehensible for any normal human being.
    So, you're a deist. You have no religious doctrine.

    Atheists are "without" religion. Not accepting a god is a merely a consequence of not being a valid theory/proof for its existence.

  9. #69
    I don't believe in religious bullcraps but at the same time i'm not 100% confident that doesn't exists a super-entity whatever ...
    Everything works so much fine and in total balance that i can't be really sure that this odd (0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000....1%) random chance happened

    Thus i define myself an Agnostic. I don't know so i don't really care. But i still get really mad at religious tards

    Human written books hardly are the truth, wake up!

    (i'm more interested in why caverns man were painting aliens all over the world tbh)
    Last edited by Masyws; 2011-02-12 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #70
    This sounds like a hostile takeover of ideologies to me. You believe or know god exists, you are theist. You believe or know god doesn't exist, you are an atheist. You don't know either way, you are an atheist? If the opposite of theism is atheism, that they have to be opposites, there has to be a position that doesn't know either way that is theistic but that isn't true.

  11. #71
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitPrime View Post
    Antithesim is a sub division of atheism.
    Which is exactly what I said. All antitheists are atheists, but not all atheists are antitheists.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitPrime View Post
    Go back and read the entirety of my post, it explains why you're categories are completely wrong.
    I did read the entirety of your post, and it's total rubbish. To use a political example, just because I don't support the Republicans, doesn't mean I do support the Democrats. Just because I don't believe God exists, doesn't mean I do believe God doesn't exist.

    To an "agnostic" (agnostic atheist): Does he? No. Could he? Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by barrinmw View Post
    This sounds like a hostile takeover of ideologies to me. You believe or know god exists, you are theist. You believe or know god doesn't exist, you are an atheist. You don't know either way, you are an atheist? If the opposite of theism is atheism, that they have to be opposites, there has to be a position that doesn't know either way that is theistic but that isn't true.
    They aren't opposites, for this very reason.

    Theism is believing in a God.
    Atheism is NOT disbelieving in a God. It's not believing in theism.

    | | <- this is theism
    Everything else out here is atheism. This includes agnostics who don't believe in God. You are theistic or you are not. If you are not, you are atheistic, regardless of how loudly you scream at people that you're agnostic and not atheist. If you really want to tell people you're agnostic and not atheist, what you're telling them is that you believe in God, you just can't prove it. At least, that's what you're telling people who understand these definitions.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
    I can't say, with 100% confidence, that I believe God exists, thus I'm not a theist. Yet I also can't say, with 100% confidence, that I believe God doesn't exist, thus I'm not an atheist. It follows then, that I possess no knowledge about the existence of God. Thus, agnostic.

    Your title is right however, agnosticism is not a system of belief, it is more of a lack of a system of belief
    Bingo. I don't believe God exists but there is no way for me to be 100% sure in this, and so, I consider myself to be agnostic.

  14. #74
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrinmw View Post
    You believe or know god doesn't exist, you are an atheist.
    This isn't quite right. There is no way to "believe" God doesn't exist. You can't believe in a nothing. You can "know" God doesn't exist, which would make you a gnostic atheist. If you reject theistic claims, you're an atheist. Whether you're an agnostic or a gnostic atheist is up to you, and what you're willing to claim about God.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Masyws View Post
    I don't believe in religious bullcraps but at the same time i'm not 100% confident that doesn't exists a super-entity whatever ...
    Everything works so much fine and in total balance that i can't be really sure that this odd (0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000....1%) random chance happened

    Thus i define myself an Agnostic. I don't know so i don't really care. But i still get really mad at religious tards
    Here we have real agnosticism. To be theist or atheist or any resulting sub division of the two is to accept an idea or belief which rejects the other. To be agnostic is to accept that either way is possible and realize no absolute conclusion can be drawn. It is not to lean to one side or the other but to remain securely in the middle (which is difficult because of human nature).

  16. #76
    Brewmaster Xheoul's Avatar
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    I consider myself agnostic and when people ask me about my beliefs I tell them just that. If they don't know what agnosticism is I explain my stance on it. I'm not so passionate about it to tell them I am an agnostic theist. I dont need to be throwing words around like the most knowledgeable person out there in a casual conversation, actual debates are a different story. And to tell people they dont "know" about something like religion which is based on faith or the lack of it, is pretty dumb, to be quite honest.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    This includes agnostics who don't believe in God.
    This draws a definite conclusion and so can not be an agnostic belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm View Post
    This isn't quite right. There is no way to "believe" God doesn't exist. You can't believe in a nothing. You can "know" God doesn't exist, which would make you a gnostic atheist. If you reject theistic claims, you're an atheist. Whether you're an agnostic or a gnostic atheist is up to you, and what you're willing to claim about God.
    If you can know God doesn't exist, you can believe God doesn't exist. Again, you can not reject theism and still be agnostic just as you can not reject atheism and still be agnostic.
    Last edited by RabbitPrime; 2011-02-12 at 06:48 PM.

  18. #78
    Warchief Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masyws View Post
    I don't believe in religious bullcraps but at the same time i'm not 100% confident that doesn't exists a super-entity whatever ...
    Everything works so much fine and in total balance that i can't be really sure that this odd (0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000....1%) random chance happened

    Thus i define myself an Agnostic. I don't know so i don't really care. But i still get really mad at religious tards
    Right there, in the first six words of your post, you have defined yourself as an atheist. Whether you can prove God exists or not is irrelevant to being a theist/atheist. You don't accept theistic claims, thus making you an atheist.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitPrime View Post
    Here we have real agnosticism. To be theist or atheist or any resulting sub division of the two is to accept an idea or belief which rejects the other. To be agnostic is to accept that either way is possible and realize no absolute conclusion can be drawn. It is not to lean to one side or the other but to remain securely in the middle (which is difficult because of human nature).
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitPrime View Post
    If you can know God doesn't exist, you can believe God doesn't exist. Again, you can not reject theism and still be agnostic just as you can not reject atheism and still be agnostic.
    Sorry, "reject" atheism? Now you've REALLY proven you've got no clue what you're talking about. Atheism is an absence, a nothing. It's not a concept, or an idea, or a belief. It's the absence of belief. You just lost.
    Last edited by Sarcasm; 2011-02-12 at 06:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BattlemasterSkarab View Post
    GOD's ARMAGEDDON and DOOM'S DAY!!!!!!.... Imagine that...
    4 apocalyptic horsemen
    Sky turned red
    Sun turned black
    All WoW servers down

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm View Post
    This isn't quite right. There is no way to "believe" God doesn't exist. You can't believe in a nothing. You can "know" God doesn't exist, which would make you a gnostic atheist. If you reject theistic claims, you're an atheist. Whether you're an agnostic or a gnostic atheist is up to you, and what you're willing to claim about God.
    You have it all wrong, it is in fact only possible to believe in something to not exist, not to know it. There is zero evidence for an ether but no self respecting physicist would say he knows it doesn't exist, they just ignore it since it doesn't seem to have any effect. But you can believe that something doesn't exist. On the other end of the spectrum, it is impossible to know that God exists because it is not possible to prove it.

  20. #80
    Agnostics are worse than Christians. At least Christians can say what they believe, Agnostics are just losers that are too stupid to decide.

    Personally, I'm a poly-atheist; I don't believe in any gods at all.
    "Certainly no one who is not a desirable parent should be permitted to produce progeny." - Tesla knew WoW was coming.
    (these two are in order of posting)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chockolate View Post
    Derp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chockolate View Post
    I was actually expecting more people to agree with me. It seems like these forums are a place where young adults can show their debating skills.


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