So how are you coping with the Mana-tide nerf?

[SuperNick]

Surprisingly haven't found it that bad in 10 normals.. I definitely have to manage my mana on Cho'Gall more, but overall it feels alright so far. I find i'm having to get more LB in during Nefarian so I can walk into p3 with high mana.

I read somewhere it's really hitting the shamans doing 10 heroic.

[Zues]

If you have JoAR and DMC:T, it still stacks pretty well......or so my guildy brags to me

[Valanna]

Your signature spell just got turned from group to raid wide and you're instead finding a petty nerf? Sorry, but the spell just got awesome, don't say that the small mana gain nerf is making you unhappy.

[Jademist]

Its a nerf?

I find it to be a buff...

[FireDraenei]

I think its a great improvement, especially in a 25 with another resto shammy. It has become a great raid buff for casters.

[krillianlol]

Could anyone tell me how they classify "short" buffs? Is stuff like heartsong and the jar of ancient remedies ~500 spirit buff included?

[Jademist]

Could anyone tell me how they classify "short" buffs? Is stuff like heartsong and the jar of ancient remedies ~500 spirit buff included?

I believe short buffs are procced increases to your spirit, or ones activate with trinkets and such.

[Hypernetic]

It's a pretty huge nerf if you were using an on use spirit trinket with MTT pre patch (which you should have been).

The raid wide thing really doesn't matter, you are hitting an extra 2 healers with it who probably didn't need it anyway.

That being said, while I most certainly notice a huge difference in the mana I get back from MTT, I still do alright.

edit: one side benefit to the raid wide thing, which probably only affects a very small portion of 10 man raiders, is that if you have two resto shamans in the raid you can now split them up for HST.

[Whoopsa]

It's a pretty huge nerf if you were using an on use spirit trinket with MTT pre patch (which you should have been).

And if you and your fellow healers were even more on the ball, you told them to wait for their Core of Ripeness and to pop it when they see your macro for MTT. Thankfully half of our healers are pallies, so their loss of mana didn't impact healing much.

[Nifra]

Nerf? I think it's pretty much on the same line as the old mana tide, except, better from a raid point of view!

Stacks with Mana Tide:

T11 Spirit bonus (540)
Heartsong (200)
DMC: Tsunami (400)
Jar of Ancient Remedies (515)
Flasks/Elixirs
Food
Enchants


Does not stack:

Core of Ripeness
Fall of Mortality
Dream Owl
(any other trinket with a +Spirit on-use or random proc)


400% of you spirit, instead of 350%, and nothing stops you from using Core of Ripeness for an example, for an extra 1900~ spirit, even if it won't get the multiply.

Best of all, it's raid-wide so no more fuss who gets to be in group 5 lol (even better - if you run with 2+ resto shamans, you can work out a rotation to benefit the healers)

[Hypernetic]

Nerf? I think it's pretty much on the same line as the old mana tide, except, better from a raid point of view!

Stacks with Mana Tide:

T11 Spirit bonus (540)
Heartsong (200)
DMC: Tsunami (400)
Jar of Ancient Remedies (515)
Flasks/Elixirs
Food
Enchants


Does not stack:

Core of Ripeness
Fall of Mortality
Dream Owl
(any other trinket with a +Spirit on-use or random proc)


400% of you spirit, instead of 300%, and nothing stops you from using Core of Ripeness for an example, for an extra 1900~ spirit, even if it won't get multiply.

Best of all, it's raid-wide so no more fuss who gets to be in group 5 lol (even better - if you run with 2+ resto shamans, you can work out a rotation to benefit the healers)

Add up all of those spirit bonuses you listed. Now look at core of ripeness. Now look back.

Also it was 350% not 300%. All of those things you listed were included before the nerf as well.

I did the math a while ago and figured I was losing about 8-9k spirit when tide was down in whatever my gear was at the time (pretty similar to what it is now). I was hitting way over 20k spirit with on use trinket and FoM proc with tide down. With JoAR and Owl I hit 14k now, MUCH less.

[Nifra]

That was a typo, and maybe I should've specified that I'm not denying that it's a direct nerf, but 2 "nerfed" mana tides is better than 1 old mana tide.

[Hypernetic]

That was a typo, and maybe I should've specified that I'm not denying that it's a direct nerf, but 2 "nerfed" mana tides is better than 1 old mana tide.

Ok, but 2 old mana tides are better than 2 new mana tides.

So they are raid wide, one extra person would be getting the tide now if you have shamans in 2 separate groups. Meh.

[Deleted]

I'm going oom on 10m heroic fights I was managing before with worse gear. Luckily, heroic JoAR dropped so I can actually keep up decently. My HPS has dropped significantly as a result, since I need to be far more careful with how I spend my mana.

Regardless, I'm trying to bench myself as often as possible and let the other healers take care of things. We're just not putting the numbers up there that are needed for progress in 10m atm.

[Creytar]

I havn't felt that I have huge problems with keeping up my mana. I just pop mana tide as often as I can and keep LB'ing in every moment there is time. Use teamwork with your fellow healers, take turns in who should regen some mana and you're fine.

[SuperNick]

It is a nerf. Just because they rolled a small change into it doesn't make it an overall buff. While I am moderately happy to see the totem go raidwide, in a 10 man environment it basically affects nothing. And well, from a 25 man pov, you get to affect possibly one extra healer or now group yourself with tanks for healing stream?

The sad thing is the design was obviously based around use of stacking short-term spirit but Blizzard didn't anticipate it would get that out of control. You can't tell me they just didn't realise it would stack with short-term buffs etc.

This wasn't a "complaint" thread btw, it was as I said just way to see how people are coping with it as I don't think I will be looking to 10 heroics with this char.

[Revelations]

Its a nerf?

I find it to be a buff...

Thing is, in a 25 man raid -before the change-, some of the healers had their Jar on cooldown when I popped the tide, others didn't. Some had heartsong up, others didn't. Some had their cores on cooldown for whatever reason, or did not react fast enough to pop it to gain the full benefit. Now, with the shaman in control, you can make sure every healer get the full benefit of the mana tide.

Currently, my tide gives all healers 15k spirit for the duration, and that's not too bad for those who had Jar on cooldown and so on. For those who popped it together with say Fall of Mortality + Core + + + it may be a nerf... but overall, we might be looking at a slight increase in raid mana gained.

[Deleted]

So your argument is that for bad players it's a buff? Great...

[zshikara]

People will qq about anything. This proves it. Make mana tide awesome and raid wide and someone posts this. Seriously I love the new mana tide. Its about time it got raid wide. And I have 2460 spirit pre buff anyway, so with mana tide down I have like almost 13K spirit. Yeah, I can go from half mana to full in less than its duration (assuming I stop casting).

[SuperNick]

Yes, not having to organise my group to include my healers is truly an awesome change for us. No problems at all. Anti-thinking cap on, warm cup of <insert quote here> and everything is fine. We went from the potential of gaining 80% mana to the maximum of around 30-40% mana in realistic, non-spirit stacked gear. That's a nerf any way you cut it, hence the title of the thread. Obviously from Blizzard's eyes, a needed one. I can only imagine Fall of Mortality + Core of ripeness was bordering insanity in PvP with resto shamans never going OOM.

Also, going from 50% mana to 100% in less than its duration is pure bull. I have 2700 spirit raid buffed and don't see no 50% return, nowhere close.

As I said before anyway, if I wanted to whine I would've made a long post about x problems venting my frustrations. As above, I haven't really noticed the change hugely and didn't find I was pulling my hair out with no mana, but I did notice I couldn't just slack anymore and see my mana go 10% to 100% with full trinket procs + tide.

I like how someone else put it.. We can play well and do well, but we have to play a perfect game every single raid. A few missed LB or a wasted HR and you can be done for sometimes.

edit: some maths and clarification on loss/return here http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=1853