Wtf rawr?!?

[Simca]

But how usefull is Rawr then if it dousnt take hit into account? I would recon that 11,5% miss chance overvalues INT.

No. You should never GEM for Hit unless matching an amazing socket bonus (10 int or higher). You reforge to meet hit cap. You should be able to reach cap with reforging.

If you can't, Int is more important.

I don't care what my computer says, if it's not logic to me, i won't do it, but if i have a reasonable doubt, I let it decide. Being Hit Capped is a must by all means, and even if people/maths from EJ states that being hit capped is a waste of dps, I don't give a darn about it.

Being hit capped obviously increases DPS (unless you're a feral druid! ), but think about it this way. What if (this isn't true, but pretend it was) 1000 INT gave 1000 DPS on all your spells, but hit rating had a terrible stat conversion so that you need 2000 hit rating for every 1% increased hit.

If that was true, hit would be a terrible stat, worse than everything else by far.

So irrationally and blindly going for hit is never a good idea.

[zephid]

so int is greatly favored over other stats

but then why the fuck is rawr telling me to use HoI over TM

is it the haste use? or the face that mastery sucks ass?

this is just going against my overall logic.

Mastery sucks ass.

[Wonderboy]

RAWR hasn't worked properly since 4.01, it's probably worse in 4.06. Until it is updated (check your individual class and spec) then it will feed you rubbish info.

In the mean time, check out Elitest Jerks who will give you a run down of everything from rotation to stat priority.

[pallyballz]

I normally have the same. But I did what Rawr told me to do (after calculating optimization with at least 16,5% hit). And Rawr told me to go haste. So I did, and lost an average of 3k dps. I went back to crit, and regained my normal dps.

I trust my dps meters more then Rawr atm.

Same here. Rawr told me to make a lot of Crit to Haste changes (which I haven't decided to try or not yet) and some VERY odd gear choices over what I currently have which are obviously better than what it said was better. I just don't trust it too much. I go with logic and my gut.

[Simca]

RAWR hasn't worked properly since 4.01, it's probably worse in 4.06. Until it is updated (check your individual class and spec) then it will feed you rubbish info.

In the mean time, check out Elitest Jerks who will give you a run down of everything from rotation to stat priority.

Depends vastly on the spec. The Mage modules are working okay.

If you feel a certain Rawr module is giving you bad information, make a ticket on the Rawr support system. If you don't let the developers know, it can never improve!

Same here. Rawr told me to make a lot of Crit to Haste changes (which I haven't decided to try or not yet) and some VERY odd gear choices over what I currently have which are obviously better than what it said was better. I just don't trust it too much. I go with logic and my gut.

Looking through Elitist Jerks right now, there is a lot of discussion over there about how Haste may now be better than Crit. It looks like Rawr is probably correct.

Also, even if you traded 1000 Crit for 1000 Haste (which isn't possible), you'd only be looking at, AT MOST a 1000 to 1500 DPS change in either direction. People way overestimate the value of small changes. Changing small things about your gear really doesn't have that large of an effect.

[Nasia]

The best thing you can do is trial and error and use rawr/simucraft to check results. Rawr is not terrible, if it is doing something you don't understand there is almost surely a reason for it. SHould you live by it like its the holy grail? No. But it usually has a method to the madness. Personal trial and error goes along way. SS some combat log sections in crit. Swap to what rawr says haste. Do a mix. Basically with the combined mana reduc changes and the value drop in crit, It makes sense to lean on haste a bit as long as you keep a nice overall balance on your own personal gear set. Thank you to kavan and other awesome ppl who spend a great deal of time on the programs to actually start calculating in the program how much ignite damage your expected to lose.


If you originally had 26% crit unbuffed and 5%haste. And you swap everything over and end up with 14%haste 19% crit, thats probably not the best idea. But find your own balance with what you have available to equip. Trial and error. Check results.

Rawr is actually showing me the jeweled serpent JC trinket is bis over TM, volcano, and HoI. This i scratch my head at but will test it. I wont claim rawr is bad program, it's a decent guide, but no, it's not 100% correct all the time.

[Tigas]

JC trinket better that volcano and HoI? LOL ? wtf...

[Garil]

I think people are taking Rawr and SimC too seriously. I build computer models and simulations for a living (not dps sims ) and if a model gives an unexpected result, we don't just take it at face value. We investigate the issue. Occasionally, the model is accurate and we need to adjust our understanding. Far more often, the model has a flaw or limitation.

[Simca]

The best thing you can do is trial and error and use rawr/simucraft to check results. Rawr is not terrible, if it is doing something you don't understand there is almost surely a reason for it. SHould you live by it like its the holy grail? No. But it usually has a method to the madness. Personal trial and error goes along way. SS some combat log sections in crit. Swap to what rawr says haste. Do a mix. Basically with the combined mana reduc changes and the value drop in crit, It makes sense to lean on haste a bit as long as you keep a nice overall balance on your own personal gear set. Thank you to kavan and other awesome ppl who spend a great deal of time on the programs to actually start calculating in the program how much ignite damage your expected to lose.


If you originally had 26% crit unbuffed and 5%haste. And you swap everything over and end up with 14%haste 19% crit, thats probably not the best idea. But find your own balance with what you have available to equip. Trial and error. Check results.

Rawr is actually showing me the jeweled serpent JC trinket is bis over TM, volcano, and HoI. This i scratch my head at but will test it. I wont claim rawr is bad program, it's a decent guide, but no, it's not 100% correct all the time.

Exactly. Rawr suggests things that may or may not be improvements. If you test something and notice an inaccuracy, you can report it on their website.

I think people are taking Rawr and SimC too seriously. I build computer models and simulations for a living (not dps sims ) and if a model gives an unexpected result, we don't just take it at face value. We investigate the issue. Occasionally, the model is accurate and we need to adjust our understanding. Far more often, the model has a flaw or limitation.

Something tells me the models you build are far more complex than these.

Either way, nobody here has advocated that you do anything other than investigate the results.

[Zoopercat]

AskMrRobot.com should be able to help you, it supports every class and is updated for 4.0.6.

It's a good idea to let a computer help you... if you take every gem, gear, enchant and reforge option in the game, say for a bear druid, there are a quadrillion combinations... weed out a few that don't make sense, and you come up with 2 billion. However, it's good to also do a mental check, 'does this seem right?' Because sometimes... it totally isn't.

Mr. Robot spent all of last week fine-tuning stats from user feedback, with a lot of work on pally and bear tanks. Next up is more work on hunters and warrior tanks (which needs work to properly weight diminishing returns on parry/dodge and increasing value on mastery). If you think Mr. Robot has bad weights, post on the forums, and in the meantime, put in your own weights in the module at the bottom of the tool.

[dokki]

RAWR hasn't worked properly since 4.01, it's probably worse in 4.06. Until it is updated (check your individual class and spec) then it will feed you rubbish info.

In the mean time, check out Elitest Jerks who will give you a run down of everything from rotation to stat priority.

I dont know about that. Even the guys over at EJ are using RawR..if im not mistaken they are suggesting people to use Simcraft/Rawr on their characters.

Also, stat weighing changes with each piece new piece you get so you cant just follow a guide. I was skeptical(sp?) of using Rawr at first since it told me to reforge to 1600haste and 1300 crit, whereas I just stacked crit before. Overrall I saw my dps increase and stay consistent between every attempt..so its been working out for me