1. #1

    Mana problems with smite healing

    Hello.

    I play a Holy MS and PVP Disc OS. I love my holy healing and don't want to let it go... however i'm getting tired of losing pug BGs because the people I get grouped with have had their will broken (regardless of faction) due to countless loss after loss.

    I'm thinking of changing my pvp disc spec to a pve disc spec. I have used the non-attonement healing spec and have enjoyed it pretty well.

    From what I've read though, with an attonement build I should replace my "heal autoattack" with smite during slow points in fights. When I do this I run out of mana pretty quickly (not instantly mind you but really fast. I looked at the mana consumption of smite vs heal and smite has a much larger mana cost. My smites also are a lot faster than my "heal" spell so it just compounds.

    What am I doing wrong?

    I heal raids as holy. that will never change. This is in regards to heroics.

    I should clarify. I was using the EJ attonement build with one or two adjustments.
    Last edited by Honen; 2011-02-15 at 01:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten eternalwhitemoon's Avatar
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    Are you using Archangel as often as you can?

  3. #3
    do u have talented archangel?

  4. #4
    Either when my mana is around 50% or when i need burst healing. I've been trying to hold onto it for spikes but usually it gets used around 50%

  5. #5
    I couldn't find any talents similar to the resto druids Fury of Stormrage -but then again I guess since the Priest version is a party healing effect (100% damage done is a heal) so I guess having it be 100% mana free would be too much, but weird there is no 25% less mana to cast or similar, I guess you have to use the Evangelism/Archangel to regen mana.


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  6. #6
    The Patient Wicaeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honen View Post
    Either when my mana is around 50% or when i need burst healing. I've been trying to hold onto it for spikes but usually it gets used around 50%
    I'd say use it more since you get a lot of mana returned when you use Archangel.

  7. #7
    there are a lot of factors to disc healing . . . are you shielding the tank for your mana returns? are you burning archangel on cd? are you using your shadowfiend? are you pausing your smites when there is little to no healing needed?
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  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten eternalwhitemoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honen View Post
    Either when my mana is around 50% or when i need burst healing. I've been trying to hold onto it for spikes but usually it gets used around 50%
    Archangel should be burned on CD for the mana return, along with taking advantage of Rapture procs when you can.

    Archangel only restores 1% of your mana each time you use it, so if you use it when you need the mana, you're using it too late. Using it on cooldown, though, makes that 1% add up really quickly.

    Also, PI is awesome for burst healing, so you're not completely without cooldowns.
    Last edited by eternalwhitemoon; 2011-02-15 at 01:08 AM.

  9. #9
    Use Archangel every CD, the 5% mana given from this spell is accounted for with the design of the disc spec, without using it each CD, you'll run into mana issues rather fast.
    Also, cast a shield every 12 sec, just for Rapture.

    Smite should only be about 350 more mana than heal with 5 stacks up? The difference is not huge by any means.
    It's also advised to keep Grace on the tank (best kept up with Pennance) while smiting, to increase it's healing, and decrease the need to shield/flash heal any spikey damage.

  10. #10
    also use power infusion

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    there are a lot of factors to disc healing . . . are you shielding the tank for your mana returns? are you burning archangel on cd? are you using your shadowfiend? are you pausing your smites when there is little to no healing needed?
    Perhaps I should practice more on holding off smites since I pretty much spam them until someone needs real healing. I'm using shields on CD

  12. #12
    I played primarily Archangel/Atonement for a while, here were some things I noticed:

    1. If you know there won't be large spikes in damage that you need your archangel cooldown for, use the cooldown whenever it comes up.

    2. This spec strongly benefits from using inner will and not inner fire. If you know there is burst coming, switch to inner fire before the burst then back out.

    3. When using your ShadowFiend, be sure to Hymn of Hope at the same time, you'll get a larger amount of mana back.

    4. Don't just sit there and chaincast smite, in a proper atonement/archangel spec-playstyle, you want to focus on using Smite and Penance as your primary heals. You have talents that create a synergy between these two spells. Don't just sit there and cast smite, if you don't have archangel up, then you should focus on keeping the buff at 5 stacks to lower the cost of your penance and if needed smite to shorten the cooldown. Don't forget you have IF-Greater Heal to catch up with any healing during this phase.

    5. Be sure that you haven't made the mistake of speccing deep into holy with this spec. You really want at least 2 points in shadow for the reduction on shadowfiend.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladinator View Post
    I couldn't find any talents similar to the resto druids Fury of Stormrage -but then again I guess since the Priest version is a party healing effect (100% damage done is a heal) so I guess having it be 100% mana free would be too much, but weird there is no 25% less mana to cast or similar, I guess you have to use the Evangelism/Archangel to regen mana.
    Evangelism gives a 30% mana reduction when stacked.


    I normally smite heal by shielding the tank up front, then on CD to proc rapture. Don't shield anyone else unless they're likely to die. Then spam smite as fast as possible. Once evangelism is stacked your smite is 2162 mana per cast making it almost as cheap as Heal. I don't pop archangel on cooldown - I save it for when I need the healing buff, or till the end of fight (I always pop it then as you'll usually lose stacks before the next pull).
    I normally penance the tank more or less on CD, but since Atonement ignores grace this is largely to top off any damage and to proc inspiration.

    One thing to consider with popping AA is that if you're going right back into smite spam, you're only getting about half of the bonus mana. It costs 2776 mana to ramp back up to full evangelism, compared to just leaving it stacked. So when you pop AA for 5-6k mana back, you're only getting about 3k effectively.

    Incidentally, how much spirit are you running? Smite spec still needs a good chunk of spirit to maintain throughput - if anything you need to be on the heavier side of regen since you'll usually smite more than you would heal. Also, make sure you proc rapture a lot! Get a rapture addon and make sure you're getting good returns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handan View Post
    2. This spec strongly benefits from using inner will and not inner fire. If you know there is burst coming, switch to inner fire before the burst then back out.
    For what? You're mainly using smite and penance, as you yourself say, and inner will doesn't affect them at all. Smite spec should be running inner fire almost exclusively as it boosts your smite heals and penances.
    Last edited by Ferin; 2011-02-15 at 01:21 AM.

  14. #14
    Also, (I know I may get ripped apart for this), what are you gemming and reforging into? Myself I do a haste/crit build and hardly ever have mana issues, and I love to smite nonstop. I currently sit at 2600 spirit non buffed with 11.82% haste and 13.86% crit. Again just keep shields up every 12 seconds and penance and AA on cd for heroics you should do fine.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Incidentally, how much spirit are you running? Smite spec still needs a good chunk of spirit to maintain throughput - if anything you need to be on the heavier side of regen since you'll usually smite more than you would heal. Also, make sure you proc rapture a lot! Get a rapture addon and make sure you're getting good returns.
    Currently I have 2306 spirit plus my tsunami and blood of isiset trinkets. I also have darkglow on my cloak.

    The armory shows me with 6157 spellpower and 12.88 haste (armory so no inner fire, group, food, or flask buffs. I usually sit around 90k mana as holy. I'm using the same gear for holy healing as I am for messing around in this smite build we're talking about.

    I run ghost elixir for 225 bonus spirit also.

    I use powerauras and have PoM, PI, and Rapture procs to show up as Disc

    I have a low crit build due to holy chakra usage in holy spec (11.49%)

  16. #16
    Even without Archangel, after 5 smites your mana per cast should only be about 2K, slighly more than heal. Unless you have zero spirit, I can't see how its possible to run oom with attonement spec.

  17. #17
    "For what? You're mainly using smite and penance, as you yourself say, and inner will doesn't affect them at all. Smite spec should be running inner fire almost exclusively as it boosts your smite heals and penances."

    It increases the amount of effective mana returned by rapture as you expended less on the original shield cast. It also effects Prayer of Mending, which is used often, renew which is used some after patch due to changes, dispels for magic and disease. Further, as I said proper switching between the two is best. However, the benefit smite takes from inner fire is minimal at best, plus the questioner didn't have questions about output but about mana. Since he is in raid gear, one would assume people aren't just dying left and right, but instead he just has mana issues, inner will makes his rotation more sustainable.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Honen View Post
    Currently I have 2306 spirit plus my tsunami and blood of isiset trinkets. I also have darkglow on my cloak.

    The armory shows me with 6157 spellpower and 12.88 haste (armory so no inner fire, group, food, or flask buffs. I usually sit around 90k mana as holy. I'm using the same gear for holy healing as I am for messing around in this smite build we're talking about.
    Hmm shouldn't be any problems with that much spirit. I ran with 2200 spirit pre-patch (bit more now due to more shield spam in raids) and had no problems smiting my way through 5 mans. You'll be sitting at over 100k mana in disc if you have 90k as holy so you should be getting good rapture and AA returns.

    I'd suggest lightweave for cloak - the int proc will give better throughput and bigger raptures while it's up - also try to time your AA for when any int procs are up.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 01:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Handan View Post
    It increases the amount of effective mana returned by rapture as you expended less on the original shield cast. It also effects Prayer of Mending, which is used often, renew which is used some after patch due to changes, dispels for magic and disease.
    I wouldn't use PoM in 5 mans as smite spec - you should be able to cover all the dps with just Atonement, leaving GH and penance for tank topping. Same for renew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handan View Post
    Further, as I said proper switching between the two is best. However, the benefit smite takes from inner fire is minimal at best, plus the questioner didn't have questions about output but about mana. Since he is in raid gear, one would assume people aren't just dying left and right, but instead he just has mana issues, inner will makes his rotation more sustainable.
    Given his gear it shouldn't be a problem either way, as such it makes more sense to aim for throughput, meaning less spell casts overall, than mana.

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