Are we the only guild who suffers?

[bobo333]

You probably did 25man version raids, with 10 people and didn't realize it was on 25man.

we did that the second time we set foot in naxx. wasn't pretty

[Imtaurne]

Meh my guild just started raiding(too busy getting achievments in cata to bother with raiding) we're casuals, downed magmaw after a dps and healer died, pretty forgiving, omnitron is a bitch for us atm but 2 attempts we get them to 10% I figure isnt too bad, TB is a joke of course, can't call that a real raid. Since we just started raiding I can't really judge but what we have downed(which is 2 cata bosses) were 2-3 attempt tries, Idk I'll prolly repost once the guild does more bosses

[Tahkmaul]

Pretty much what most people are saying here. The raids are not super hard, but they do offer challenges which require not only gear, but coordination and good play. More so than in WotLK. We had the same problems when we stepped into BWD. Wiped on Omnotron and Magmaw for a while, then realized we needed a better level of play. Our core team stepped up and met the challenge. We are now 8/12 and quite casual. It can be done. It just requires a bit of dedication, determination, and a step up can do attitude.

[Deleted]

We had a good guild and took the Lich King (but who didn´t ), and made progress with Icecrown heroic mode.

~SNIP~

But in between there is a guild like ours..

I don´t understand why Blizzard just didn´t make raids in heroic difficulty -really really- hard for the challenge?

So, are we the only guild who suffers from the new unforgiving raids?

Before you start looking at "which boss to take", first take a look at your guild and/or raiding team. I would suggest.....

1. Make sure everyone has a competent raid talent spec. You will need AOE'ers, interupters and dispellers. Don't worry about dps as such, most specs will come out adequate dps. This expansion isnt just about facerolling, you need to move, interupt and pay attention. Get people out of the mind set to react to a raid leaders command, get them to react on their own judgement.

2. Also gear check everyone. Get people to check BiS (Best in slot) equipment for their roles, check they are using correct glyphs, gems and get people Enchanted. If you cannot afford the epic legs enchants, the blue one is more than adequate. Make sure everyone is Enchanted with ilvl300+ enchants. Make sure they have correct stats. Hit capped, EXP capped etc etc. If they are not, work as a guild to get that character sorted.

3. Food, pots and flasks. Make sure ALL members are taking them, and using them. As a guild farm for them. Create a shopping list and get raiders to help each other out on a weekly basis.

4. Slow things down. Most of the time people just jump into a raid, read the tactics and pull. Work out what the bosses do first. I am not necessarily saying read up on tactics, I hate using other peoples tactics, but knowing a bosses ability helps dramatically. Also on your attempts, Focus on getting to the enrage timer, it means you are atleasst doing something right, if you are wiping at 80% then clearly something or someone is stopping that.... Many Raids try and beat the encounter by brute force, Get the raid spreading, stacking etc when they should, don't try and heal through it etc.

5. Communicate. When you wipe, work out why. Don't yell and scream because hunter x didn't stand in the void, or Lock Y ran at the healers when he was going to get flamethrow'd, avoid sarcasm and the "LOLOLOLOL" attitudes, try to get people to understand that is wrong, if someone still isn't getting it, perhaps work round it and invent your own system to over come the issue.

Above it all harmonise as a raid group/guild. WotLK introduced this awful single minded train of thought. Take a step back, look at the guild and its players, come together and work as a team, then try Magmaw. ;-)

[Terrafros]

We raid 10-man as casual here, two short raid nights a week(and sometimes we cancel a night due to RL interferences). We've been raiding Cata content for almost a month now, with Conclave of Wind, Magmaw, Omnotron, Maloriak, and Atramedes down, having Magmaw and Omnotron on farm.

The content on normal isn't super hard, the content isn't super easy, I like it just where it is.

[Ohtori]

Well, as the GM of a former ICC 25 man guild, with LK down in 10 man, 9/12 heroic down, Cata hit my guild like a rock. I have 2 of my 6 healers from Wrath. I have 2 of my 5 tanks from Cata. Dps has changed a bunch too, do to everyone changing classes.

So far, to get any real progression done, I merged our 2 10 mans down to 1, with the best of the players available at the time. We finally got to Cho'gall in Bot, and can't get to Chim in BWD due to raid stability. It's a slow progress, but I'm happy my people are patient to a extent.

With the need for 3 healers constantly, it's put a strain on my wanting to get everyone to raid, and people realized I have to sit some people out for guild progression.

You aren't the only group going through struggles right now, just keep your head up high, get a plan to knock things out, and it will come together.

[Anjerith]

My reply may be lost in the commotion of replies, but I want to address this for the OP.

The top guilds in the world have defeated the current content. When you see that advertised on this website or others, it is important that you realize that those guilds are less than 1% of the entire population of this game. Do not hold yourself to their standards because you will *always* fall short.

I am not entirely sure of your Guilds strengths and weaknesses either, but also take heart that this content is much, much much much harder than ICC. The fights are tuned much better in general and room for mistakes (especially in the 10 man variety if that is your preference) is miniscule in the first few successful kills of the bosses.

Yes, other Guilds are struggling on the earlier bosses. It is not because they are too hard, what you are working against is the WotLK Mindset where people could basically do what they wanted without regard to threat, healing, or dps because hell you spent the better part of last year with a 30% buff to all that stuff.

I saw a few people recommended Halfus. He is a good starting point due to some amount of coordination that the entire raid must participate on but, dependant on which drakes are up in a given week, you simply may not be able to handle it if your gear is lacking.

I did see the above statement that it mostly relies on the Raid Leader. The Game has *always* emphasized the RL as the bastion of strategy in the group, but I have found that bringing intelligent players in general is much better than simply having a Master Brain that hovers over the content now. (Note that I am the all-purpose RL of my guild, so this is my personal opinion after having done the current tier of raids)

As also stated just above this post, there is no shame in restructuring. Remember that the progression of your Guild as a whole is far more important than highfiving buddies or bringing someone "just to fill a spot".

[Uwibami]

As people learn the fights, they get way easier. Also surprisingly, being at 3/4 in BoT and 5/6 in BWD, the last new boss we've downed was Chimaeron. So you should be able to do Maloriak and Atramedes.

I won't say the raids are easy, but practice makes it a lot easier. Keep at it and you'll be alright.

[Deleted]

My own guild is a casual 10 man raiding one (two 3 hour raids a week) and we're on 9/12 atm, only Nefarian, Cho'Gall and Al'akir to go.

There's no magic answer to your guilds problems other than to stick at it and for all your members to do the best that they can*. You will wipe. You may wipe a hell of a lot. That's just part of being a raider.

*This includes preparing as well as possible. Pre-raid BiS gear from heroics/crafting/rep, enchantments, gems, flasks and burn potions.

As others have said, it's hard to diagnose where your problem lies without information. It could be that you're collectively undergeared/unprepared, or have poorly performing/specced players assigned to key positions .. impossible to say without more information.

Regardless, some of the content is pretty tough but certainly manageable for a casual 10 man guild.

Persevere! .. and good luck.

[Razorice]

We've got Halfus,Argaloth and Conclave of winds on farm atm. we killed Magmaw once but after that we had bad attemps. Working on Valiona atm

[haaku]

we got 6/12 in december, haven't played since, the difficult was disappointing.

[Anjerith]

we got 6/12 in december, haven't played since, the difficult was disappointing.

Above all don't get this attitude.

[jontun]

lol would be kinda funny to see them implement the king wrynn buff in every tier of content from here on out.

[Herrenos]

By the time WOTLK was over, "Casual raiding guild" could legitimately refer to players who would show up ungemmed, never read fights, would tackle new progression bosses while eating leftover chinese one hand and playing with the other, have guilded members ragequit after 3 wipes on a new boss, and would piss and moan about being asked to use consumables

What it really boils down to is that in Cata, as opposed to wotlk, "Casual raiding guild" refers to players who are skilled, know their class and mechanics, min-max the best they can, and simply play less than "hardcore raiders". I think the really big difference has been Blizzard attempting to equalize the difficulty of 10 and 25 man raids. 10-man normal modes in WOTLK were very, very easy, intentionally. 10-mans in cata are supposed to be as hard as 25-mans.

Couple that with the no 30% buff and you've got a lot of people would could gimp their way to 9/12 normal in icc10 who can't do much more than argaloth without getting better.

[Tranquilitas]

My guild has completed the heroic ICC 10-man (drakes!) just within 3 month after we started raiding (skipped toc). We are what most would call "casual" - we raid one day and only 4 hours per week. We have quite good players though and we all are experienced raiders (i.e. we have done the ulduar 10-man drake before toc, too). Some of us play together for 2-4 years.

With cataclysm coming we thought of it as just-another-expansion and again more raiding fun. Most of us went to the first raids with the intend to down bosses on normal mode fast - but it didn´t happen. Now we are raiding for about 7 weeks and we have killed 3/6 bwd (and argaloth ogc). Although we know that raiding can be a hard time during hardmodes we now experience this even more by trying normal modes. The first tier hardmodes are already lost and theres little hope that we can progress again like we did with T8/T10.

I´m just saying - you are not alone. And there seems to be no easy solution for the problem except extending raiding times which is no option for my guild at least.

[foxHeart]

Suffering? This implies your guild is a victim - that it's been dealt a hand that's unfair. Don't be awful. Learn strats. Repeat. Win. It's what everyone else does.

[Anjerith]

You won't see a 30% buff. The purpose of that buff was so that everyone could get the most reasonable opportunity to see the Lich King fight and witness the end of a story that Blizzard has been following for almost a decade. It would be a tragedy for people to have not been able to see that fight through.

Pretty ridiculous that that is still in the game btw, checkout that hp..

[DETdream]

My guild is in the exact same situation. We have Halfus, Valiona&Theralion, Magmaw, Omnotron, Antramedes and Argaloth down every week on the first night, and then we can't get more than 6 or 7 online for the other 2 nights so no progression is made. Been like that for 3 weeks now.

I put up a post in the US - PVE section of these forums but no luck so far. We need a few more bodies, come on people!

[ddk]

I'm going to systematically list all the wrong in your post.

Please do not come with opinions like "it´s so easy" because it´s not.

Too bad, because it is and you're wrong.

Raids these days are just so unforgiving that it is not any fun, and people stop playing.

Not fun for you, but fun for me and my guildies so again you're wrong.

So half of our guild stopped signing, and even given up WoW completely and we are about to fall to pieces

So your guild fell apart and you're blaming the fact that they can't faceroll through content? Guilds disband, true story. And if they disbanded over this, then they weren't too strong to begin with so again, you're wrong.

Casual think it's fun when it's easy to run dungeons.

Me and my guildies are the very definition of casual. We have DPS that fall under the tank on the meters. We have healers who get BETTER the more vodka's they drink throughout a raid. We have ranged who stand in the fire. And yet, despite all of this, we muddle through and succeed and have fun doing it. So 'bzzt', you're wrong again.

But in between there is a guild like ours.

No, your guild is a special and unique snowflake.

So, are we the only guild who suffers from the new unforgiving raids?

Probably not. But then given how whiny and ready they are to give up, I'd say the guild wasn't going to hold together for very long anyway.

[Lidd]

.....
...

Sorry, but it IS easy. The only normal modes harder than the rest of T11 would be Nefarian and 25M Al'akir. Everything else may not be a faceroll, but all they require is basic competence at your class/role, heroic gear with rep epics and staying awake during the tactics debriefing. If your guild lacks some - or all - of those then you won't kill bosses, and that's how it should be.

I RL in a casual guild, "staying awake during the tactics debriefing" seems to be the hardest. I strive to make my RL environment conducive to having a successful raid. Its quiet and interruption free. Cannot tell you how many times I'll finish talking about tactics or what we just did wrong, only to have one or more people say, ok where do I stand? What do I dps? Who's tanking what?......I just explained all that and if I could reach through my screen and smack you i would.....

We also are 3 of 12 on normals. 'nuff said.