Dungeon Finder/Vote Kick Hotfixes, Patch 4.0.6 Hotfixes - Feb 16, Blue Posts

[daburton]

These changes are some that are definately needed. I was in a guild (was being the operative word) where I would see crap written in guild chat all the time. It was always the same thing or a variation on it "hey, so and so just logged on and needs a drop off the next boss. Lets boot the person and bring him in for it" or "hey, don't you need that trinket off the final boss? The pugger we have will likely roll on it as well, why dont we boot him when we get there so you dont have any competition". I mentioned to the GM on more than one occasion that for myself, I sure as hell dont think I want to be associated with a guild that allows its members to act in this manner. Of course nothing was done about it.

As for the people bitching about low dps, I think people who go into a heroic and do that low of a dps are far far far from the norm. Maybe their dps is mediocre, but being ludcirously low... I have YET to see it. Crowd control "may" be a problem, but again, 9/10 of the heroics I pug now do NOT use any crowd control whatsoever and most definately when we're 3 and 4 manning guild heroics, we don't use any, and I wouldnt say any of us are overly geared.

And as for "penalizing" 4 man guild groups. Get over it. Really. I'd say from experience the 4 man guild groups that ABUSE the kick system outweigh by an enormously large margin the amount of people that justly deserve to be kicked.

And to this little quote:
"Terra-bad is the person that I repeatedly tell to sheep moon that doesn't, the one that refuses to jump down and turn a lever, the one that repeatedly pulls for me, the one that does 2400 dps (i seriously had a 2400 dps lock in heroic BRC today). "

Easy solution. 1. If they don't sheep, well just imagine that it was a class that DIDNT have CC. It is all random as to who you get in a group. Work around the problem, don't focus on it.
2. If they don't jump down to pull the lever. Don't delegate it to them. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If the person simply lacks that ability to do what they need to, work around it by assigning that task to someone else.
3. If they continue pulling mobs, teach them a lesson. Let them pull, back your group up, let them die and don't rez or heal them. Eventually they will learn what to do and not to do.

[elph122]

And for this little quote:
"Easy solution......."

1. Fighting beauty with an undergeared group is difficulut, almost impossible if you have NO cc. When I repeatedly ask for a cc that we pre-determined before the pull and it doesn't happen, that is just fail. Fortunately less cc is required now since the patch, there are still times with certain group characteristics that it is required (HOO trash, etc).

2. The lever decision was pre-determined as well, the dps decided that when it was time to jump down they didn't want to.

3. The dps puller was taught his lesson as I watched him die. Our group then had to endure a 10 min rage session and refusal to dps until he could be kicked.

---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 07:40 AM ----------

"I think people who go into a heroic and do that low of a dps are far far far from the norm"

As for this statement, either I am the most unlucky person in the world or you do not pug heroics much. Sub 5k dps happens very very frequently.

[Gramexer]

So, if tanks leaves he get's deserter, right? But does his mates also get or not?

Imagine scenario that you spam trade for HC and then just for leave xD

[blackangel209]

Why is everyone misspelling "terribad"? No, "terra-bad" is not even close. Does no one see the connection to the word "terrible" anymore? T_T

On a different note, what was the harm in DPS buying insta-queues from tanks/heals? All you have to do is wait an extra 30 seconds for a new tank. It's also essentially the same thing as mages selling portals. It just saves one person time and makes the other person money.

[Heppu]

I tend to do heroics either with a full guild group or with two friends, a DPS and an healer (Me being the tank). With this change i guess we'll just get two random DPS from trade channel, no point in carrying idiots because Blizzard wants us to. Currently our gear is not that awsome either, so in heroics we MUST have CC and people who DPS to know tactics. Not being able to kick the guy who breaks all CC, does little to no DPS and fails all tactics will just cause us to leave, meaning LFG tool will now have even less tanks and healers.
It's not all bad though, now we wont have to carry around these guys who just stay for one boss, then ask to be kicked. If we refuse to kick them they just leave dungeon and go do something else, now they cant do that.
So this is what it has come to? Blizzard wants us to carry idiots and we get a slap in the wrists if we cant teach them or refuse to tolerate them in our groups.

[Strakha]

Why is everyone misspelling "terribad"? No, "terra-bad" is not even close. Does no one see the connection to the word "terrible" anymore? T_T

On a different note, what was the harm in DPS buying insta-queues from tanks/heals? All you have to do is wait an extra 30 seconds for a new tank. It's also essentially the same thing as mages selling portals. It just saves one person time and makes the other person money.

Maybe terra-bad implies a planet with awful opportunities for terraforming.

[Pikka]

As a player of all three roles, I have to say the most annoying situations are when you as the tank do more DPS than the DPS class, and when as the healer you have to be constantly on your toes for that one terribad DPS that doesn't move out of the fire / pulls on his own / attacks anything but the skull. I know, I can just let them die, but that's just lowering yourself to their level.

So seeing any changes that guard the bad players doesn't motivate me to play even more. Although I don't prefer gear score, the ilvl entry level for heroics was a good thing imho. Why can't they make a system that punishes the bad players instead of making good players carry them through? For instance, when kicking a bad player you can choose from a list what did he do wrong (eg. DPS lower than the tank, not CCing, not silencing, standing in the fire, not performing class specific roles like totems, decursing etc), and if the same mistake is done in the next instance, he gets a penalty of sorts, like not being able to queue into a heroic for some time or has to run a normal instance or something. I know that probably can't be done and maybe isn't the best idea in all fairness, but I'd really like to see a system where you can be paired with people that have the same enthusiasm about the game, while still being in any or no guild - I reckon that's the ultimate goal of a PuG system.

Also, maybe making an in-game DPS meter could help in this matter? Like, if a damage dealer has lower DPS than the tank after a few pulls, he can be kicked with no penalties for the kickers. This way the group can choose to keep him if they wish to carry him through, but you can also enjoy the game by kicking the dead weight that's making you do his job, while he's not doing anything to improve himself.

[jibbyjackjoe]

I see why this is hotfixed, but truth to be told, as a dps, this just makes my day even worse. I don't have that many hours playing WoW every day and I've always done the queing with a tank who then leave-trick. That way my friends can help me get in front of the queue even though they don't have time to do a heroic.

I will now instead be queing as tank myself, and since my gear sucks, that will lead to a lot more wipes and a lot more unhappy people.. I don't know how smart that is in the long run...

It's line jumping. It isn't fair. It has been deemed cheating. You will now get punished if you do it. Do t do it, no punishment.

[420rogue]

These changes are some that are definately needed. I was in a guild (was being the operative word) where I would see crap written in guild chat all the time. It was always the same thing or a variation on it "hey, so and so just logged on and needs a drop off the next boss. Lets boot the person and bring him in for it" or "hey, don't you need that trinket off the final boss? The pugger we have will likely roll on it as well, why dont we boot him when we get there so you dont have any competition". I mentioned to the GM on more than one occasion that for myself, I sure as hell dont think I want to be associated with a guild that allows its members to act in this manner. Of course nothing was done about it.

As for the people bitching about low dps, I think people who go into a heroic and do that low of a dps are far far far from the norm. Maybe their dps is mediocre, but being ludcirously low... I have YET to see it. Crowd control "may" be a problem, but again, 9/10 of the heroics I pug now do NOT use any crowd control whatsoever and most definately when we're 3 and 4 manning guild heroics, we don't use any, and I wouldnt say any of us are overly geared.

And as for "penalizing" 4 man guild groups. Get over it. Really. I'd say from experience the 4 man guild groups that ABUSE the kick system outweigh by an enormously large margin the amount of people that justly deserve to be kicked.

And to this little quote:
"Terra-bad is the person that I repeatedly tell to sheep moon that doesn't, the one that refuses to jump down and turn a lever, the one that repeatedly pulls for me, the one that does 2400 dps (i seriously had a 2400 dps lock in heroic BRC today). "

Easy solution. 1. If they don't sheep, well just imagine that it was a class that DIDNT have CC. It is all random as to who you get in a group. Work around the problem, don't focus on it.
2. If they don't jump down to pull the lever. Don't delegate it to them. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If the person simply lacks that ability to do what they need to, work around it by assigning that task to someone else.
3. If they continue pulling mobs, teach them a lesson. Let them pull, back your group up, let them die and don't rez or heal them. Eventually they will learn what to do and not to do.

This is the stupidest shit ever. If your too fucking stupid to know how to do ANY fight in a heroic after a few attempts, then do not just pass it on to someone else. why carry them? I would rather vote kick and wait 30 minutes for someone else then carry someone that fucking stupid. in fact, I would rather not finish the dungeon and not get credit than give them credit for it. I would even roll need on gear just because they don't deserve it.

p.s- don't even start that "your an elitist bullshit" all classes only use like 5 buttons in PvE. how hard is it to press polymorph? How hard is it to let the tank pull? how hard is it to press the lever? All of these (which is most of the problems people see) require little to no thought and the fact someone isn't capable means their useless to humanity and should be put down like a sick dog.

[Mordin Solus]

All great, but one problem...

"# If a group queue of 4 kicks the one person that they did not group queue with they will each receive a more severe penalty to their ability to initiate future kicks."

I just don't see a reason where even after the bad apple has rightly and properly been dealt with, you still feel the lingering effects because Blizzard tries to protect the (bad) minority of the group. Not all people who end up with 4 guildies/friends are bad, and not all 4 of that group are bad...but it's happened, and I don't like being penalized for using the system the way it should be. It only makes me not want to do dungeon quests on alts.

so if a guild group of 4 votekicks me out at the last boss, cause they want to bring their other guildie that couldnt be hassled with the queue time and doin the rest of the dungeon, they shouldnt get penalized? yeah right, keep dreamin.

[CookieEater]

Maybe terra-bad implies a planet with awful opportunities for terraforming.

I like this comment.

[Llamapwnzors]

Did they just buff shaman healing by 15%? Or is this a dream?

[Micutu]

Did they just buff shaman healing by 15%? Or is this a dream?

/like

Seems it's not a dream, but weird they're trying to fix them in hotfixes and not in the normal patches. Shamans have been crying about the efficiency for some time now, but no-one seemed to listen, and now a 15% buff... weird.

(I bet me mentioning shamans crying will bring a lot of trolling)

[Ieft]

hate these changes, bad people deserve to be kicked, no idea why you should be penalised for that.

[zilverdael]

Somehow i have my doubts ...
Tanks leaving, and waiting for a new tank resulted in bigger queue times for that group.
However, discouraging this, will put fewer tanks in the queue thus also increasing queue times.
Where's the win?

Also guild groups are forced to carry around trash dps/tank/healers because of the 'severe' kick penalty? that'll encourage them to even find a 5th player ... ... oh wait ... it wont! and thus ... increasing queue times!

woep! nice job.

(however, since im a tank, i dont care about these changes a lot :-) )

[Nathanyel]

Why is everyone misspelling "terribad"? No, "terra-bad" is not even close. Does no one see the connection to the word "terrible" anymore? T_T

Maybe they've seen Avatar one too many times: Terra = bad.

[Typhron]

Best hotfixes Blizzard's ever done. Ever.

[Malleus]

It's line jumping. It isn't fair. It has been deemed cheating. You will now get punished if you do it.

Not if you have a Warrior, Paladin, Druid or DK in the group. Then, they will role check as tank while any other player role-checks as DPS to get you in. As soon as you're in, lose the temp and on the new role check that occurs when you requeue they take off the tank flag. Job done.

[Strakha]

Best hotfixes Blizzard's ever done. Ever.

Best hotfix was nerfing the f out of ret about 3 weeks after 3.0.2

[Nathanyel]

Not if you have a Warrior, Paladin, Druid or DK in the group. Then, they will role check as tank while any other player role-checks as DPS to get you in. As soon as you're in, lose the temp and on the new role check that occurs when you requeue they take off the tank flag. Job done.

If that happens too often, they will extend this bugfix to all early leaves, not just tank/healer leaves.