Raiding kind of stinks now

[KelebekSmile]

Gear is not an issue, think again of why you're failing before you whine.
Having the wrong movment is punishing in this expansion. Missing a buff or a debuff will 99% of the time kill your raid.
So you might need to actually understand the fights better before you try to group and smash the boss head and hope for the best!

Go read about the fight, make sure everyone in the raid understand their role and what they need to do when (x) ability is casted and when (y) ability is casted.

Lastly, if you want epics (work for it) don't complain about not being able to move or intrupt then cry about failing to kill the boss cause no one will feel sorry for you in the way you're trying to make us feel .

[Kaeleena]

If it's not enjoyable for you, don't do it. Get your honor gear and run some rated BGs. Much more rewarding than smashing your head against the wall over and over again waiting for epics to fall out and yeah, the normal mode raids are more difficult than they're worth for gear at this point. The normal modes were supposed to be clearable by casuals and pugs and the heroic modes were supposed to be for the hardcore. Well, Blizz changed their mind, as they so often do and now you need well coordinated groups with everyone minmaxing their characters moving in unision while also putting up max numbers on each fight to down bosses. Not fun. Not what normal modes were meant to be. Pugging is dead. The current raiding tier is more difficult than any initial tier previously and difficulty-wise rivals that of T3/T6 and T10 Hardmodes no 30% buff. Expect this to change drastically in 4.1 as Blizz sees their subscription totals plummet.

[reflection]

Really if you're having such a hard time with the first basic bosses you're doing something really really REALLY wrong.
They are not that hard, most of them have been nerfbatted as well (Halfus). As said above normal modes before the last 3 are a pitiful joke

definitely confirmed. Just play them down as they used to be played and you're done. First bosses will be hard the first and maybe the second time. You get better gear, bosses get easier.

[Hallto]

People are talking about normal this, normal that. I myself started raiding in the end of Ulduar and in ICC I joined a guild and downed LK 25 Heroic. The countless hours we spend on progressing on the Lich King (heroic) was so much fun, it was a test of our patience and skill, progressing on bosses now is just a joke.

One of the things I miss is the amount of pugs going on, I'm on a high-pop server and there aren't pugs there (yet) that manage to clear even Bastion of Twilight on normal. The thing I liked back in Wrath was that there were a lot of pugs that could kill a lot of bosses in Naxx, Ulduar, ToC and ICC (mostly normal-modes tho), right now, it's just terrible. I like the encounters tho and they aren't as hard as people are making them to be, I would wish for something for the casuals and puggers.

I'm not going to tell people "OMG you need moar skillz to get more killz liek I do", because that's a choice they make on their own.

[Kaeleena]

Normal mode is supposed to be normal. Your average players are supposed to be able to kill normal mode bosses with average to moderate difficulty. That's clearly not the case here.

Edit: Heroics were recently averaged out in difficulty and Luck of the Draw was buffed for people who like to pug. Expect more to come directed solely at raiding in the next few patches before 4.1.

[Strakha]

Raiding is not fun if you raid with bad people and sometimes it is never fun.

I remember near the tail end of Ulduar when we were done Yogg 25, people just get burnt out. After the third week of T9 I think when we kill Anub Arak on 25, people were just done with raiding.

You have to make sure you are the kind of person who enjoys raiding, and more importantly enjoy the people that you raid with. It can feel like a job if you have some bad players in your raid, because it becomes stressful to make up for their awful behavior.

There are lots of fun things to do that don't involve raids, sadly there are very few things you can do that are not directly influenced by terrible players. Which is the allure of arena for me, the dictation of a small group of trusted pals.

[Bliq]

You are claiming normals are hard, really? I hate to break it to you but if you struggle as much as you say with normals equipped with dungeon heroic gear you are doing something wrong.

I also chuckled at another post in this thread about the fights being shit because you had to move etc.

[Korv]

Well, in my third week of raiding and it's just been 20+ wipe nights every single night. These bosses are just not fun, too buggy, too much RNG, just BS mechanics, the healers are tired of it, you have to dance around like a monkey all night, never miss an interrupt, always be in the right place at the right time, it's just too much for any mere mortal to pull off and it's a shame Blizzard decided it was more import to drag content out in this manner.

Normal modes are impossibly hard at the 346 gear level and if you can't kill any bosses, you can't make any progress. Just plain old boring. I don't understand why they didn't put in an entry level raid like Sartharion where a guild can actually go in and have fun and kill at least one boss to get the gear going, or the first bosses in the raids should have fewer than 12 mechanics you have to fully understand (Omnotron) or an impossibly high AOE requirement (after they nerf your AOE down to garbage).

The healers are frustrated because they are horribly gimped and still have to do all the super mario jumping around every 2 minutes, how are they supposed to heal. I'm sure this sounds like whining to high-end players who can pull all this off, so I salute you guys, but for the other 85% of us, it's a pretty crappy raiding scene.

I don't normally say this, but you and your lot are simply bad.

[omgooses]

If it's not enjoyable for you, don't do it. Get your honor gear and run some rated BGs. Much more rewarding than smashing your head against the wall over and over again waiting for epics to fall out and yeah, the normal mode raids are more difficult than they're worth for gear at this point. The normal modes were supposed to be clearable by casuals and pugs and the heroic modes were supposed to be for the hardcore. Well, Blizz changed their mind, as they so often do and now you need well coordinated groups with everyone minmaxing their characters moving in unision while also putting up max numbers on each fight to down bosses. Not fun. Not what normal modes were meant to be. Pugging is dead. The current raiding tier is more difficult than any initial tier previously and difficulty-wise rivals that of T3/T6 and T10 Hardmodes no 30% buff. Expect this to change drastically in 4.1 as Blizz sees their subscription totals plummet.

you couldn't be any more wrong. Have you done T3/T6 T10 HM's? I did up to brutallus in sunwelll and was in a 5/12 (heroic) 5% buff guild. yet somehow the guild i'm in now (not at talented or dedicated as my previous one) has cleared 12/12 normal mode and downed H halfus and are one raid night away form H Chimaeron. All it takes is a little SMARTER playing than just smashing your 1-4 keys. Its knowing when to use cooldowns, being on top of interrupts, communication between the tanks and healers, and people just showing up and paying attention. Nefarion was nothing like H Saurfang 25 with 5% buff. And that was one of the easier bosses.

[Kaeleena]

you couldn't be any more wrong. Have you done T3/T6 T10 HM's? I did up to brutallus in sunwelll and was in a 5/12 (heroic) 5% buff guild. yet somehow the guild i'm in now (not at talented or dedicated as my previous one) has cleared 12/12 normal mode and downed H halfus and are one raid night away form H Chimaeron. All it takes is a little SMARTER playing than just smashing your 1-4 keys. Its knowing when to use cooldowns, being on top of interrupts, communication between the tanks and healers, and people just showing up and paying attention. Nefarion was nothing like H Saurfang 25 with 5% buff. And that was one of the easier bosses.

Must be nice always getting carried. T3 was simply a gearcheck that most people couldn't make. T6 was fairly easy until 7 or 8/9 BT and all of T10 was a total joke after the 30% buff, even the HMs. Yeah, I would say this tier, especially as an initial raiding tier, rivals those tiers and it shouldn't.

[carrierz]

1. You are exaggerating
2. You're pulling numbers out of your ass
3. You say that stuff is impossible at 346 ilvl, yet A LOT people (including me) have done the normal modes in that gear
4. If you don't like raiding then
1. Quit
2. L2P

[Bliq]

@ omgooses
Normals are easy. Halfus has been nerfed to the ground and Chimaeron is in no way much different from normals except for about two things.
But I'm sure you'll figure that out once you get past them.

[omgooses]

Must be nice always getting carried.

would you like WOL posts? then you can show me what you've done so far and i'll laugh in your face.

above poster^^ you prove my point, the other guy is stating that normals are scaled to what T6 was.

[skrump]

Faceroll level? No thank you.

To be honest Blizzard should of put in at least 1 entry level faceroll raid
Simple fact is crappy players make up a major portion of wows playerbase and they need that faceroll raid to get their crap together

[Gootgot]

Raiding is really fun now.

You need to face the fact that raiding is not meant for people like you and your guild. And just wait a few more weeks/months (for some better Valor/crafted gear, next tier of content etc) and then start doing these normals.
In wow you are always able to do everything blizz puts into the game, its just the matter of time.

Time is directly proportional to how bad you are, not even how much time you put in. There aren't any guilds at least on my server, bar Ensidia, who raid more then 3 nights a week....

[druenos]

1) 20+ wipes would take under 2 hours of raiding, hardly much of a time sink
2) I agree the fights are bit over-tuned, but I would say Halfus is pretty simple to start. Double dragons is also less complex than Omnotron.
3) Funny thing about moving, most of the time you're moving to avoid something that would hurt you so during that short period damage shouldn't be too intense. Furthermore, we have 100k+ HP. Nothing is going to kill you in that time period.

I don't mean to discourage you or anything, but the those bosses aren't that harsh. Just take the encounters slow and steady, you have more time to react and recover than you're probably realizing.

Sorry dude but that's just not true, i get killed by a boss one shot all the time, we might have over 100k health now but sometimes it feels like 10k. I also find these bosses in raids to be totally no fun anymore. Just for the fun of it our guild did ICC this week and what an enjoyment that was, everybody says how easy ICC was but at least it was thoroughly enjoyable.

[Kaeleena]

@ omgooses
Normals are easy. Halfus has been nerfed to the ground and Chimaeron is in no way much different from normals except for about two things.
But I'm sure you'll figure that out once you get past them.

I'm not going to get past them until they're nerfed or 4.1. I have no desire or motivation to simply devote the required time and effort of a final tier of gear to the intial tier of gear of expansion. I've played this game for 6 years and it's always the same gear chase only this time, after WotLK being the most accessible expansion in the history of the game, Blizzard decided they wanted to force the casuals and pugs out of raiding again and I'm just not going along with it.

[Arrowstormen]

and i guess that the option that your guild is bad or is doing something wrong is not possible?

[Surfd]

Well, in my third week of raiding and it's just been 20+ wipe nights every single night. These bosses are just not fun, too buggy, too much RNG, just BS mechanics, the healers are tired of it, you have to dance around like a monkey all night, never miss an interrupt, always be in the right place at the right time, it's just too much for any mere mortal to pull off and it's a shame Blizzard decided it was more import to drag content out in this manner.

Normal modes are impossibly hard at the 346 gear level and if you can't kill any bosses, you can't make any progress. Just plain old boring. I don't understand why they didn't put in an entry level raid like Sartharion where a guild can actually go in and have fun and kill at least one boss to get the gear going, or the first bosses in the raids should have fewer than 12 mechanics you have to fully understand (Omnotron) or an impossibly high AOE requirement (after they nerf your AOE down to garbage).

The healers are frustrated because they are horribly gimped and still have to do all the super mario jumping around every 2 minutes, how are they supposed to heal. I'm sure this sounds like whining to high-end players who can pull all this off, so I salute you guys, but for the other 85% of us, it's a pretty crappy raiding scene.

I am sorry, but I completely fail to sympathize or empathize with you on almost any level here. About the only thing I might agree with is that there is possibly a slight bit too much movement required in some of these fights, but for the most part, all I am getting from your post is "I have assembled a team of people who just cant hack it".

If you are unable to successfully down any of the first bosses in any of the new raids with a group in Full 346 average gear, then I hate to say it, but something is VERY wrong. It is entirely possible for any class, of any spec, to properly do their job in the current raid environement if they are equipped in a full set of 346 gear that is properly enchanted / gemmed / reforged. Also, considering that every class / spec has at least 2 epic rep pieces that are as good as what you would get from those raids, there is realy no excuse at all.

And you mention later in another post that you used to raid ICC hardmodes? Yet somehow Magmaw, or Omnotron are too much for you? I mean, really? Compared to Heroic Putricide, Omnotron is a walk in the park. If your raiders have attention spans and memories so short they can't wrap their minds around 3 abilitys per "mini boss" when only 2 of them are up at any time, how the heck do they manage to dress themseves in the morning?

Yes. Raids are complex. They also give you the best gear currently available. If you are unable to rise to the challenge, then you get what you earn: Heroic 5 man loot. And eventually, when the next raid tier comes out, and all the VP gear shifs down to the JP bracket and you can once again outgear the content, then you can step up to your new feed trough. The normal mode raids are fine exactly how they are. The problem is not with them.

I have raided every tier of content from molten core and original onixia, all the way to 10/12 currently of cata, with the exception of sunwell, when each raid was current content, on a usually fairly casual basis. And I will say flat out, I prefer the current trend towards more challenging raid content. If you want to go back to ye-olde days of "Molten Bore" where bosses had at most 2 important mechanics any given player needed to pay attention to, you are welcome to it. Me, I would rather kill stuff that keeps me engaged, instead of sleeping through half the raid.

[Arrowstormen]

I'm not going to get past them until they're nerfed or 4.1. I have no desire or motivation to simply devote the required time and effort of a final tier of gear to the intial tier of gear of expansion. I've played this game for 6 years and it's always the same gear chase only this time, after WotLK being the most accessible expansion in the history of the game, Blizzard decided they wanted to force the casuals and pugs out of raiding again and I'm just not going along with it.

i dont think you get the meaning for "casual", because most casuals can do it, unless they dont wanna give time to the game, or is just plain bad. Pugs can if they organized, which they normally isnt. Blizzard wants players to join guilds for it, and guilds is really nice to be in, if you like the people. if you dont like being in a guild because of all the people, raiding isnt a very good option. if pugs or some bad players really suck that much, they can do it in 4.1. "but then thats old content and bad places!". well, get better if you want to raid the current tier.