Bring the class - not the player 10m heroics.

[Snixs]

Now we all know that 10mans require a bit mroe skilled players, which i personally think is alright made from blizzard, 10mans are harder than 25man. Or atleast they are if only half of the 25m guys know what they are doing >_>

So to the point: Last night we entered 10m heroics. We have done 25 for a while, but wanted to try go do it on 10man.... And what we saw... Our enhancement shaman couldnt be used since we had all the buffs his totem could give us, the only thing we could use him was with his Windshear on some bosses. on a boss like magmaw, he wasn't useful. we are constantly switchung out for other classes/Speccs..

Did anyone els try this? imo it shouldnt be like that and for me, they didnt do HC's nor normals in full blues TOO hard. Close to, but still understandable and needed focus from the start but now that we're inside HC's... Ouch!

[Leneson]

How is an enhancement shaman not useful, does he not know how to press his dps buttons or something.

Edit: To be completely honest I didn't understand a single damn thing you said. From what I did understand It seems like you're upset that HCs are harder than normal modes.

Wtf?

[Tennou]

This theme is very important right now. So let's define the phrase - "Bring the player, not the class in 10m heroics" in WoW. I have thought for a while now about it and here is what I think :

AAAAAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA LOLLOLOLOLLOLOOLoneoeno11 elevene!!

I think when someone in blizzard had the guts to say that ridiculous thing in public he was so high he wouldn't remember his name ! LOL
Snixs, indeed if the fight is difficult in 10 men heroics (and no complaining here, i like difficult) it gets ridiculously difficult or even imposibble without raid setup that would allow all buffs and stuff be beneficial for every raid member. And the forementioned phrase, which is acronymed into "BTPNTC" is just trolling

[Methodize]

How is an enhancement shaman not useful, does he not know how to press his dps buttons or something.

Edit: To be completely honest I didn't understand a single damn thing you said. From what I did understand It seems like you're upset that HCs are harder than normal modes.

Wtf?

I don't think he's complaining about heroic raids being harder than normal modes. He's noting his own personal experience in that his enhancement shaman isn't as useful to bring as other classes. First because they have the buffs that he can give, and probably because enhancement shaman are melee, and a lot of the fights really punish melee.

[maliizz]

Enhance shamans from my experience are rather useful. Melee does get punished on alot of hm's with that being said they can also save a raid with a split second instant healing rain or CH. Now would I bring him over say an equally geared rogue or kitty? Probobly not.

[Teperen]

I think the complete sentence *should* be "bring the player with the right class", it just got translated wrong :P :P

[Methodize]

Enhance shamans from my experience are rather useful. Melee does get punished on alot of hm's with that being said they can also save a raid with a split second instant healing rain or CH. Now would I bring him over say an equally geared rogue or kitty? Probobly not.

You just proved his point with your statement. This is exactly it.

[Twoflower]

"class xy isnt viable" is a excuse. A good player can play any class in a way that benefits the raid.

[Deleted]

To the OP. You where switching out the enh shaman as you had all the buffs already but why him and not for example a different player who gave the same buff? For example the windfury buff is also with a frost DK, who nog get him out as all his buffs would be present also with a shaman in his place and some other classes.
I dont know you nor your shaman or group make up but seems you are missing the point on the stated: Bring the player, not the class

[xxAkirhaxx]

Hey guys 25m is easier than 10m because 10 people in a 25m can be bad and everyone in a 10m has to be perfect. Please, I'll carry 3 people in a 25m heroic and barely get it done the same way you'll carry 1 person and barely get it done.

On the subject though, make your roster bigger to sub in and out people. With 10m normal you shouldn't have to, any make up works. With HMs you're going to need 12-13 people on your roster to switch in and out. Get used to it.

[Ave07]

From what I heard most of the 10 man heroic bosses are broken and overtuned so you need to be either really good aka better than Paragon, or do a weird raid set up 3 tanks 4 healers w/e.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1921693256

/shrug

[Jurwi]

"class xy isnt viable" is a excuse. A good player can play any class in a way that benefits the raid.

You clearly are not clearing 10man heroics.

---------- Post added 2011-02-18 at 02:41 PM ----------

To the OP. You where switching out the enh shaman as you had all the buffs already but why him and not for example a different player who gave the same buff? For example the windfury buff is also with a frost DK, who nog get him out as all his buffs would be present also with a shaman in his place and some other classes.
I dont know you nor your shaman or group make up but seems you are missing the point on the stated: Bring the player, not the class

But the different class that provides the same buff can do easily more DPS. That's why point.

[Muzzlok]

re: "isn't as useful to bring as other classes" -

Pffft! I am always #1 on damage for Magmaw. Hunter, mage, kitty, rogue, DK in my group and I think Magmaw fight is probably the easiest raid boss for my spec. Enhance may not bring any additional buffs, but putting out chart topping dmg is USEFUL.

[Snixs]

This thread was NOT ment for whining enhancers, all in my guild Got equal dps and been playing together for about 2 years, ofc some is a bit unbalanced.


This thread was ment to hear if any of you guys out there running into a problem that looks like this and need to replace some classes during a 10m hc

[eternalwhitemoon]

We run into a problem whereas if we miss one single person, we're SOL basically.

No mage for counterspelling H Halfus during Furious Roar? Better hope you have enough Divine Shields!

No rogue or DK for H Conclave? Rohash's debuff gets pretty rough even if you're switching platforms properly.

Not enough ranged for H Magmaw? Good luck. You'll need it.

The problem is that there are certain class mechanics that make the Heroic encounters much more bearable. If you lack them, it becomes overly complicated just to down the boss.

An example: this isn't even on Heroic difficulty. Our mage is kind of a failboat, so he can't kite the adds properly on Nefarian. So, to compensate, I as the healer have to pop Righteous Fury and gather the adds myself. This, of course, puts strain on the other two healers because I'm not able to properly heal while controlling the adds.

As a mage, he should have no problem handling them on their own. A proper mage is a huge asset on this encounter.

TL;DR: 10-man comps are strict. 10-man Heroic comps, even more so.

[Blackfoo]

We run into a problem whereas if we miss one single person, we're SOL basically.

No mage for counterspelling H Halfus during Furious Roar? Better hope you have enough Divine Shields!

No rogue or DK for H Conclave? Rohash's debuff gets pretty rough even if you're switching platforms properly.

Not enough ranged for H Magmaw? Good luck. You'll need it.

The problem is that there are certain class mechanics that make the Heroic encounters much more bearable. If you lack them, it becomes overly complicated just to down the boss.

An example: this isn't even on Heroic difficulty. Our mage is kind of a failboat, so he can't kite the adds properly on Nefarian. So, to compensate, I as the healer have to pop Righteous Fury and gather the adds myself. This, of course, puts strain on the other two healers because I'm not able to properly heal while controlling the adds.

As a mage, he should have no problem handling them on their own. A proper mage is a huge asset on this encounter.

TL;DR: 10-man comps are strict. 10-man Heroic comps, even more so.

Look at h chogall there is no point to bringing a feral druid kitty to this fight my guild forced me to go boomkin since the crit and lop were already coverd by our bear tank. Ferals cant damage the adds so why bring them(by adds i mean bloods) Blizzard cut most classes by making the encounters easier if u do have ranged. H artamedes is a prime example besides kiting a flame theres no reason to bring melee at all this raid tier put a end to almost all melee