Holy paladin needs a bit of help

[Sif]

Heya.

Been reading a bit through these forums looking for some sort of (in lack of better word) guide on holy paladin. I mean a place where i can see which stats are best, spec and glyphs etc. I see them on the other class forums, but i can't seem to find one here.

So in short: is there such a "guide"? and could anyone point me in the right direction?

If not, then i got a few questions

1. What is my stat prio?
2. Which spec is the strongest at the moment? been reading a bit and seing 2-3 specs, all supposed to be amazing and the only spec you will ever want, so a bit confused
3. Is there any place i can read a bit more on holy paladins? some sort of webpage like fx. shadowpriests have shadowpriest.com

Thank you so much
Sif

[Valamivan]

I think a generally accepted answer (will work fine for most of the cases):
1, INT >>> Spirit >= Haste > Crit > Mastery
2, 31/5/5 (Again, personal preference, group setup, encounter and environment can tweak this)
3, Elitist Jerks usually has an up-to-date guide for all classes/specs which will provide a solid foundation

[mAzty]

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t107975-...in_compendium/

There you should find everything needed to find. :]

[Deleted]

U mean pve I suppose? ;P I didn't play pve much, but for sure prio stats r int and spirit. Stack spirit until u dont have mana problem then go full to int. About spec I wont help u, but here u have 2 first sites after typing "holy paladin" in google ;P (wasnt so hard ;P)

http://www.holypaladin.net/
http://www.theholypaladin.com/

[Sif]

Thank you <3

A bit new to all of this, so i thought i'd ask the ones that might know a bit more than me

But ye...thank you for your help

[talreno]

Your stat priority is int>crit/haste>spirit>mastery

Reforge most of your mastery to haste/crit
Your bread and butter heal is holy light. Use light if dawn if u need a big heal. The ONLY REASON to use flash of light is if someone is going to die fast. It costs the same as divine light but heals for much less. Make sure you are holy shocking on cd to get holy power.

As for a spec, there are a few good ones. If you look at my armory (Tál on Scilla) you will see the spec I use for raiding and you can tweak it to your liking. I do suggest you go read elitistjerks.com and it will give you a ton more helpful info.


I hope this helped.

[KnightChivalry]

Most of that info is fine but infact the stat weightings are

INT>haste>Spirit>crit/mastery.
Haste is worth a hell of a lot more than crit which tends to come naturally on gear and in any case you don't need a lot of it; it only procs conviction which has a high up time anyway if you're actually healing because PoI can proc as well as your direct and aoe healing.
Just grab the offset raiding gear which has spirit and haste frankly and reforge crit/mastery to haste (or spirit if its not on the gear which in every case of raid gear it is to my knowledge)

That's not the most recent EJ thread so go to the paladin subsection and go to the 4.0.6 one; sadly I can't post links here.

[Valamivan]

Your stat priority is int>crit/haste>spirit>mastery
[...]

Excuse me but if spirit is inferior to crit and haste why do you have it on every single piece of your gear? :P
And it is generally accepted that haste is superior to crit, not equal.

[Simca]

I plan to post a Holy Paladin guide by the end of the day today if all goes well. It's currently over 8000 words.

And the stat priority accepted by almost all Holy Paladins is actually Intellect >>> Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

Intellect is freaking amazing.
Spirit lets you bomb more Divine Lights.
Haste lets you cast faster.
Crit lets you crit more (not that great).
And Mastery gives your targets mediocre shields which may or may not actually be used.

I've been slacking a bit so I apologize for not having a guide up in these forums.

Edit: This is the correct version of the Elitist Jerks guide, not the other one linked: http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110847-...ndium_4_0_6_a/

[KnightChivalry]

I plan to post a Holy Paladin guide by the end of the day today if all goes well. It's currently over 8000 words.

And the stat priority accepted by almost all Holy Paladins is actually Intellect >>> Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

Intellect is freaking amazing.
Spirit lets you bomb more Divine Lights.
Haste lets you cast faster.
Crit lets you crit more (not that great).
And Mastery gives your targets mediocre shields which may or may not actually be used.

I've been slacking a bit so I apologize for not having a guide up in these forums.

Since all our gear really has sufficient spirit that stat weighting can be quite misleading meaning you might want to reforge haste/crit/mastery to spirit instead of haste. Which is why I label my stat priority as Int>haste>spirit>crit/mastery. We always reforge to haste unless your regen isn't sufficiently high.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Culexus]

Since all our gear really has sufficient spirit that stat weighting can be quite misleading meaning you might want to reforge haste/crit/mastery to spirit instead of haste. Which is why I label my stat priority as Int>haste>spirit>crit/mastery. We always reforge to haste unless your regen isn't sufficiently high.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

You should avoid gear that has neither spirit nor haste. Those pieces would have mastery and crit on them and would be the only situation where you have to decide whether to reforge to haste or to spirit (eg. the reputation 359 necklace) and therefore wouldnt be our first choice. But even if you have to take such a poorly itemised piece you have to take into consideration how much manareg in fight you have at the moment and if youre happy with your reg right now. Its not exactly as easy to tell which stat is prioritised in such a situation for healer like it is for a dps. Mostly because healing is a role where playstyle really alters your stat choices and therefore isnt easy to model in simulations in general.

[Deleted]

Ok, one more time:

For starting paladins the stat order is: Intellect >>> Spirit >> Haste > Crit > Mastery.
Once you don't go oom anymore, it changes to: Intellect >>> Spirit, Haste > Crit > Mastery.

Just try to obtain gear that has spirit on it always.
If gear has spirit, then your stat choice becomes easy: Haste > Crit > Mastery.

[Simca]

No, honestly, Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

Spirit is always superior to Haste.

Look at the high-end Paladins in top guilds. Every single one of their pieces has Spirit on it. They're making the choice of Spirit/Mastery (well maybe not Spirit/Mastery, but at least always Spirit/Crit) piece over Haste/Crit piece every single day of the week. The reason is that you can never have too much Spirit. The more Spirit you have, the more Divine Lights you can cast.

I'm honestly not sure why people around here started valuing Haste over Spirit after arbitrary point A, but I believe that is in error. Spirit is always, always superior to Haste. After a certain point, Spirit starts becoming a throughput stat, so that you can sustain your Divine Lights.

Divine Light spam is the key to success, along with keeping your mana low.

[Tuccoyote265]

Simca is 100% right. While Haste is better than Crit and Mastery, it is inferior to Spirit. Once the Haste cap is actually reachable, maybe there will be a bit of reshuffling like Magister mentioned, but even after that like Simca said Divine Light spam will always be superior to anything else and that is only possible with more Spirit.

[Firecrest]

I'm honestly not sure why people around here started valuing Haste over Spirit after arbitrary point A, but I believe that is in error.

The reason why lies in the “around here” part of your question. “Around here” is geared towards the lower middle class of the raiding spectrum. You just have to bear in mind what that typically means. It means a player who doesn’t push an aggressive raid progression schedule, doesn’t always understand the inner workings of his class and normally out gears the content he downs. The situation created by these circumstances can easily create a circumstance where, after killing Normal Boss X, the player can look at his still halfway full mana bar and figure they have “enough” regen. This is a far cry from the player that needs every scrap of advantage he can get as he pushes the bleeding edge of content designed to be completed by players who’ve had the time to amass much better gear sets.

Additionally, let’s be honest. As much as myself and others get in a tiffy when we see someone “doing it wrong”, the performance output between doing it perfectly and doing some things incorrectly is pretty slim. I could reforge all my gear to Mastery tonight and my guild would not be slowed in progression one whit. I might cause a wipe here and there by oom’ing at an inopportune time and some of our kills may not end as cleanly, but anyone not finely tuned with their character would probably not even notice a difference.

Also, there are a good number of people “around here” who read something once and then start spewing it out as truth without verifying its veracity or even fully understanding what they’ve read. Often what they read, what they think they read and what they later pass on as fact follows a progressively downward spiral of falsehood and misunderstanding.

It’s enough to kinda make you wish there was some system in place to moderate obviously incorrect information, huh? Man. If only someone would propose such a system!

Just sayin'... >.>

[Simca]

Firecrest, I disagree. Incorrect information does not necessarily need to be moderated.

If people aren't doing something as perfectly optimally as they could, we can teach them. This isn't like EJ where we'll ban somebody who is genuinely seeking help but has incorrect information.

[Culexus]

No, honestly, Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

Spirit is always superior to Haste.

Look at the high-end Paladins in top guilds. Every single one of their pieces has Spirit on it. They're making the choice of Spirit/Mastery (well maybe not Spirit/Mastery, but at least always Spirit/Crit) piece over Haste/Crit piece every single day of the week. The reason is that you can never have too much Spirit. The more Spirit you have, the more Divine Lights you can cast.

I'm honestly not sure why people around here started valuing Haste over Spirit after arbitrary point A, but I believe that is in error. Spirit is always, always superior to Haste. After a certain point, Spirit starts becoming a throughput stat, so that you can sustain your Divine Lights.

Divine Light spam is the key to success, along with keeping your mana low.

This is true. As mentioned in my above post the only situation where you have to decide if you are reforging to haste or to spirit is when you have a mastery AND crit item ... simply because if it doesnt have mastery AND crit on it, it has to have spirit or haste already and you cant even decide for which one you go because you obviously cant reforge to a stat that is already on the item. In this (not often occuring) situation you obviously reforge to spirit ... unless yeah .. unless you are doing it wrong or you are overgearing content anyway.

When are you overgearing content? Lets see ive got a tank offspec that im using ONLY to tank heroics. Im overgeared in that spec for the content. Lets say you are a retri and want to take use of faster queues with a heal offspec. In this situation it is possible to have spirit values that are wasted anyways. But to be honest even if you are reforging to haste instead when you are overgearing anyway it doesnt change anything in the end.

Also i can imagine one situation where you value haste over spirit even if you are not overgearing the content. Its when it is possible to reach another haste plateau for Holy Radiance to get an additional tick. There are situations where it could be worth it to reach that next plateu even if it means to reforge to haste instead of spirit. Obviously this decision does only occur when you are very near to that plateau (like 30-50 rating under it).

[Simca]

This is true. As mentioned in my above post the only situation where you have to decide if you are reforging to haste or to spirit is when you have a mastery AND crit item ... simply because if it doesnt have mastery AND crit on it, it has to have spirit or haste already and you cant even decide for which one you go because you obviously cant reforge to a stat that is already on the item. In this (not often occuring) situation you obviously reforge to spirit ... unless yeah .. unless you are doing it wrong or you are overgearing content anyway.

When are you overgearing content? Lets see ive got a tank offspec that im using ONLY to tank heroics. Im overgeared in that spec for the content. Lets say you are a retri and want to take use of faster queues with a heal offspec. In this situation it is possible to have spirit values that are wasted anyways. But to be honest even if you are reforging to haste instead when you are overgearing anyway it doesnt change anything in the end.

Also i can imagine one situation where you value haste over spirit even if you are not overgearing the content. Its when it is possible to reach another haste plateau for Holy Radiance to get an additional tick. There are situations where it could be worth it to reach that next plateu even if it means to reforge to haste instead of spirit.

Yeah, I agree, but only would be within like 100 haste of the Holy Radiance tick.

Any more than that and I'd be sacrificing too much.

[Firecrest]

Firecrest, I disagree. Incorrect information does not necessarily need to be moderated.

If people aren't doing something as perfectly optimally as they could, we can teach them. This isn't like EJ where we'll ban somebody who is genuinely seeking help but has incorrect information.

Indeed. MMO-Champ is casual friendly. I was just explaining why misinformation so easily takes hold on these forums.

Without getting too much into it, I just want to say that I’ve never implied that the problem is not people coming looking to learn. It’s the people teaching incorrectly that really do make the community worse of a place. When someone comes looking for help and they are told to do it wrong, they leave worse than they started. Those few who truly know what they’re doing can run around correcting everyone all the time, but take it from one who’s tried (actually you probably know this as well already), one can only do so much.

[Simca]

I just posted something to hopefully help people out: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nel-It-A-Guide