Retribution & Haste

[Deleted]

Hi all,

I just have a bit of a query regarding Haste and Ret post-4.0.6. Obviously I understand that once Hit and Expertise capped the priority goes Mastery>Crit>Haste. What I'm wondering though is are there certain proportions I should be going for? Currently I have Mastery 16.36, Crit at 8.71% and Haste at 1.90% and I reckon that theoretically you could equip without any Haste at all (I could be wrong) - but would you want to? Is there an optimal ratio for DPS that I should be looking at. My guild is currently getting down the opening raid bosses now (we're relatively casual) and I want to ensure my performance is up to scratch. Apologies if this has been covered before in a previous thread.

Just for reference here's my profile: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/chamber-of-aspects/darksmiter/advanced

Please feel free to point out any glaring omissions/improvements that could be made to my set-up. Currently I'm trying to replace the Circle of Bone with another Nova Band, and need to replace one of my Major Glyphs with Glyph of Divine Protection - I'm just not sure which one to get rid of.

[omegatrigun]

According to EJ, there are no certain amounts for each stat. It's simply mastery is best then crit then haste (while hit and exp capped.)

You can't equip another nova band, since it's unique-equipped. You should drop glyph of crusader strike for glyph of exorcism. I'd drop glyph of consecrate for divine prot.

Other than that your setup is pretty good.

[Dieselpower]

I get a lot of grief for this, but I aim for up to but not above 10% Crit and then I stack Mastery.

(Bring the hate!)

[underdogba]

There are inflection points where Crit starts to get better than Mastery, but it's difficult within this tier to get to a point where that is noticable. At no point in currently available gear does Haste overtake either. Crit and Mastery are very close in terms of dps contribution, with Mastery only slightly better, so as far as gear selection goes, all you really have to do is avoid pieces with Haste where you can, and reforge to add or take away Hit and Expertise.

[Igra]

haste is our worst stat atm

[Badpaladin]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-you-all-have

Pretty much answered your main inquiry in the first question. I'd advise looking through stickies(if they are there) before making a new thread, you can often find information you need without posting.

[davep]

the reason haste is bad for us is because the only reason we need it is to decrease CS to 3secs and currently it's not possible to get that much. Also I don't see how people are saying Mastery is only a bit better the Crit considering Mastery gives us a straight damage increase where as Crit just gives us a chance to get a increased damage increase and that damage increase will always stay the same.

[Kishin]

If mastery (and crit) is/are obviously better, why do you even care about haste?
Our ultimate goal should be to have 0,00% Haste on our Gear (which isn't really possible).
Stack mastery and crit.
Forget haste.

[ElAmigo]

the reason haste is bad for us is because the only reason we need it is to decrease CS to 3secs and currently it's not possible to get that much. Also I don't see how people are saying Mastery is only a bit better the Crit considering Mastery gives us a straight damage increase where as Crit just gives us a chance to get a increased damage increase and that damage increase will always stay the same.

Increases dmg by a certain percentage to two of our main abilities, crits have a chance to double the damage of all of our main abilities

[davep]

Increases dmg by a certain percentage to two of our main abilities, crits have a chance to double the damage of all of our main abilities

Ya but they are our 2 most used abilities, I just find it hard to believe that Crit could ever surpass Mastery. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Deleted]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far, especially to Omegatrigun for his advice on Glyphs and to Dieselpower for giving an indication on Crit weights (I'd be interested in hearing an explanation as to why 10%, as I assume it's not arbitrary).

mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-you-all-have

Pretty much answered your main inquiry in the first question. I'd advise looking through stickies(if they are there) before making a new thread, you can often find information you need without posting.

Yeah... not so much, although it is a very helpful thread (which I have of course read). It makes clear why Haste is not currently viable, excluding high-DPS procs from trinkets, e.g. Crushing Weight (as further explained by you in question six). It also states that you should avoid it where possible and always reforge it. But then I already knew this. My main query was as follows:

What I'm wondering though is are there certain proportions I should be going for? Currently I have Mastery 16.36, Crit at 8.71% and Haste at 1.90% and I reckon that theoretically you could equip without any Haste at all (I could be wrong) - but would you want to? Is there an optimal ratio for DPS that I should be looking at

So to rephrase this, specifically what should I be looking for in terms of the stat ratios, e.g. x% more Mastery than Crit, and y% more Crit than Haste? Should I be aiming for 0.00% Haste (excluding high-DPS procs from trinkets) or is there an inherent value in holding down a minimum baseline? This second sub-query is why I titled the thread Retribution & Haste - apologies if this was confusing.

I suspect that there is no correct answer to this currently as indicated by Omegatrigun but your thoughts and feedback on this are much appreciated.

[Badpaladin]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far, especially to Omegatrigun for his advice on Glyphs and to Dieselpower for giving an indication on Crit weights (I'd be interested in hearing an explanation as to why 10%, as I assume it's not arbitrary).

He's also incorrect. Crit and Mastery are linear increases. They sort of feed off of one another, hence is why there is an inflection point where crit becomes better than mastery, but this is at about 1500 crit and 2500 mastery, well away from our reach in gear. There is no such thing as a "nice value" to have, there are only stats that are linear in value, thus stacking one that gives you more point-for-point is what you do.

Yeah... not so much, although it is a very helpful thread (which I have of course read). It makes clear why Haste is not currently viable, excluding high-DPS procs from trinkets, e.g. Crushing Weight (as further explained by you in question six). It also states that you should avoid it where possible and always reforge it. But then I already knew this. My main query was as follows: [query]

There isn't any optimal set ratio. There never has been, not since the change to the spell queue system that made it so that we require ridiculously ridiculous amounts of haste to reach a 3.0s CS. I think because our stat priority is so overly simple the answer may not have seemed so apparent.. Avoid haste at all cost except for extreme cases, like Crush Weight, reforge for mastery and aim for mastery/crit gear. I'll add a bit more clarification in the Q/A.

@Davep -- Crit makes mastery hit harder, because mastery deals damage based not on weapon damage, but damage done. So a CS hitting for double damage will deal 35% of double CS damage if you've got enough mastery for 35%. The inflection point is when each point of crit will be feeding more damage into mastery than points of mastery themselves, which happens at about 2500 mastery and 1500 crit. Check the spreadsheets in my thread if you're more curious, that's where these values were generated.

[Deleted]

Great stuff - thanks for the clarification on this. I think you're right in that I was perhaps crediting our stat priority with a level of complexity that it doesn't have. Nevertheless I really appreciate your response and look forward to seeing your update to the Q/A.

[Deleted]

Reforge Haste to crit/mastery but try not to let your crit drop too far behind your mastery.