Need some more experienced raiders help with our Cho'gall....

[Tyleiran]

Okay we worked on Cho'gall for our 3rd raid day and we are better at it. We can consistently get to phase 2 now even on pretty bad attempts. The problem is that I don't know what we can do better. Our raid composition is a big problem for this fight but we managed to get a strategy that is functional for our party. We only have 2 ranged, ele shaman and destro warlock. We use a frost DK to slow the bloods as well as our offtank DK and assassination rogue to dps them in wave 3-4.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l1jsx4q4r0nuh2nm/

That is what I logged for the evening. We had a half dozen attempts before that that I didn't log. The only thing I see is that either dps is too low from meelee running around too much or lack of gear. But even in full epics there is not way we are going to squeeze an extra 4k dps per person I would think.

we also had this attempt http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...&s=4043&e=4585 that sort of destroyed our morale for the night. That was my personal worst wipe ever. But it does mean that we did have the dps to down in right? I think our best attempt after that was about 2 million with a few 4-5 million attempts. We could use different people (like a hunter or a mage) but there would be huge difference in gear level for the people we would bring in.

I'm just wondering what people who have actually downed it would do because the only thing we didn't try was 2 healing it.

[soulkeeperx]

Sorry, don't know anything about reading WoL, but I can say this: If you get to phase 2 relatively cleanly, make sure to tank Cho'gall in his throne, where he was sitting before you pull, the tentacles spawn extremely clumped up and almost trivializes them. Sorry, all the help I can give

[oscillator]

^
what he said.
We just use a wall instead of the throne but same difference.
If you can make it to p2 with decent mana on your healers it's not too hard.
You may have to work something out to make sure the melee and tanks aren't barfing all over each from corruption sickness.

[Arialla]

Being able to AE down the tentacles is a huge help

[Fenixdown]

Cho'gall is not really a gear check. As long as your backups can do competitive DPS (in other words, as long as they know their class), substituting them in for a better composition will not hinder you.

The fight is, in realistic terms, a stupidity check. Don't stand in Shadow Crash, don't stand in fire, break MCs, don't barf on people, and target switching. That's the entire fight. Phase 2 is a healer check, but proper rotation of cooldowns should ensure that mana won't be an issue (unless your raid is taking unnecessary damage before then).

Also, you don't need to AoE the tentacles. They have very little health. Single target burst can kill them just as quickly, if not faster. However, do make sure that Cho'gall is positiioned well (on his throne or a wall) so that the tentacles spawn relatively close to each other.

From analyzing the basic scan of your damage taken during your total attempts, it looks like your raid is taking far too much damage from the following.

-Corrupted Adherents (Corrupting Crash did over 5 million total damage, people are not avoiding this enough)
-Each other (Malformation is doing over 6 million damage in total attempts, that is when players reach 75 corruption and start shooting shadow bolts at other raid members)

It seems to me the reason you are constantly wiping is because people are having way too much Corruption before entering phase 2. Most especially in 10-man, this makes the fight pretty much impossible. I would basically tell your raiders they need to start paying attention better, or a kill isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Herecius]

People are dying to corrupting crash, that is not ok. It's very easy to avoid, and your raiders need to make sure they do so. Your corruption is just getting too high. If you keep your corruption low (it is entirely possible to go into P2 with no corruption), then you will beat this encounter.

More interrupts on the Darkened Creations (use aoe stuns if at all possible) are needed as well, but mostly it's just your corruption stacking way too high.

[Tharkkun]

If people are dying or getting hit at all by shadow crash tell them to install DBM. Turn on both the warning for shadow crash on them and near them (other player). They should have no excuse for being hit after that. The old rule of don't finish your cast when shadow crash is coming then applies.

[Deleted]

Stack up behind boss and let fire mage use dragon's breath to remove mc'd ppl

Use 3 dps for the bigg add

Use just two good aoe dps on the small adds (frost dk/mage/lock), rest of the dps focus on boss

P2 after the fire dissapears let the tank pull the boss way up the throne where he sits. This way u get the tentacles close to eachother and dps can interupt and aoe them fast down.

[Upptagen]

What others said; Move from Shadow Crash. It's extremely easy, just have your raid try to spread out as much as possible (knot it's hard with many melee, but it do work). That way people won't have to move much.

[ikopitz]

After several attempts (15) we managed to kill this boss, our best tries were 120k and 30k left on the boss lol.. but we finally killed him.

[jeffason]

also make sure your raid knows they can interrupt the tentacles. while the tentacles are channeling they reduce damage done so it makes killing tentacles slower. if you have the tentacles clumped up on the throne or against a wall you can use aoe interrupts to greatly increase the speed in which they die.

[Webbee]

We have everyone stack up behind the boss and then instantly AOE-stun the MC's with shadowfury (destro lock). When the big add comes out, everyone spreads and scatters like roaches. We switch to the big add, but dodge the shadow crashes like crazy. We basically do everything we possibly can to make the healers' lives easier. We even have Tranquility rotations from our boomkin and feral during phase 2 to ease the healing.

As someone mentioned above, just dodge the shadow crashes. Shouldn't be too hard. Its a big purple spot on the ground and the missiles don't hit for like 2-3 seconds. Plenty of time to stop what you're doing and move a few steps away.a

[Bozkurt]

I would just like to point out that this is one of the first topics i have seen where there are no insults and/or demeaning comments beings posted to a genuine concern of a fellow player. From reading it seems pretty much everyone has already told you that your raiders need to avoid unnecessary damage, and tank him on throne/wall.

What i would suggest is that as raid lead you make a decision, if there are some raiders that take too much unnecessary damage, warn them to let them know they need to improve or they will be benched. I know it sounds mean, but sometimes that is the only way. I cannot begin to tell you how many times we have wiped on a boss until we take them down, only then to always one-shot the boss thereafter. Sometimes you just need to get over the hurdle, and the rest will follow.

GL

[Fenixdown]

I would just like to point out that this is one of the first topics i have seen where there are no insults and/or demeaning comments beings posted to a genuine concern of a fellow player. From reading it seems pretty much everyone has already told you that your raiders need to avoid unnecessary damage, and tank him on throne/wall.

What i would suggest is that as raid lead you make a decision, if there are some raiders that take too much unnecessary damage, warn them to let them know they need to improve or they will be benched. I know it sounds mean, but sometimes that is the only way. I cannot begin to tell you how many times we have wiped on a boss until we take them down, only then to always one-shot the boss thereafter. Sometimes you just need to get over the hurdle, and the rest will follow.

GL

Something I have noticed recently in this new expansion, is that since raiding is a bit more challenging the community is not as quick to judge others as "just another bad lawl". especially when it comes to end bosses. End bosses, very similar to BC and vanilla, are a step above the rest in terms of difficulty (which is how they should be). This could also be true of some of Wrath, but not to as high of an extent (Lich King before the damage buff became too high and Yogg Saron would probably be the only two I would list in that category).

Some other things that may help your raid. In terms of morale, the question I would pose is this. When yo are wiping alot on a boss, when or how abouts do you go with taking a break? Taking a break on a challenging boss at certain times can help to refresh the focus of your raiders. On a fight such as this one, if you are struggling, I would probably take two ten minute breaks to refresh everyone's focus so that they can stay on target.

Something else I am noticing upon so view of your healing totals. Your paladin and druid's HPS on this fight seem a bit lower than I would think they should be. Now, while I know 25-man raiding is different, in our Cho'gall kills we use six healers and none of them are lower than about 7.6k HPS. Our top five all are 10k or above. Also, your druid and paladin have some issues with overhealing. While I know paladins (being primarily tank healers) have rather high overhealing and druids are hard to avoid overhealing because of HoT usage, I think some of that overhealing can be avoided, especially if it is occurring before phase 2. This could also assist your healers with mana conservation, something that I definitely suggest they get more adjusted to if you are going to push Nefarion attempts after Cho'gall.

[glycerethe]

Your pally healer is pretty bad imo, he almost got outhealed by a resto druid(in some attempts he really did)

Your dps is not performing up to basic requirement as a guild run.

Your average worshipping uptime is about 3-4sec before interrupted, that's way too long and buffing Cho'gall too much for your group's standard to handle, especially when your pally healer is bad.

Bring a better pally healer, and 2 heal it, you should go disc instead, or shadow, last phase is a race, you CANT outlast the boss with 3 healers.

Get to phase 2 with 3 adds, anymore than that is not healthy for your healer's blue bar.

Again, interrupts, both on adds, and MCs, crucial to down the fight.

[Deleted]

last phase is a race, you CANT outlast the boss with 3 healers.

3Man healing is it very doable, infact probaly the most normal way to do it.


Tip to OP

Since you get to 25% phase, all I got to say is make really sure that everyone is spread out so they don't puke on eachother, aswell try standing in a corner, my guild uses the entrance due to a square room, basicly there will be nowhere else for the tentacles to spawn but really close to eachother. if you are having too much corruption in p1, make sure depravity is interupted, aswell as worships, I noticed also that in several tries when we were progressing, things like fear, or anything above 3-4 sec CC can literally make it go wild, i.e stunned/disoriented in a shadow crash, we used our resto shaman to interupt,rogue & dragonsbreath (disorient is dispelable)

[reflection]

We do it even with 3 Healers and 2 Tanks so it works definitely though our tanks do about 9k dps also

[minsunye]

not that experienced but did down him twice. in a week on main and alt, phase 2 your dps-ers have to go on tentacles or it will be a dps/heal drop which will result in a wipe. use bl, and save/time every cd you can for p2. last but not least try to keep a clean p1, because of your heavy melee comp you dont really want them to vomit at each other.

[Deleted]

Your pally healer is pretty bad imo, he almost got outhealed by a resto druid(in some attempts he really did)

Your dps is not performing up to basic requirement as a guild run.

Your average worshipping uptime is about 3-4sec before interrupted, that's way too long and buffing Cho'gall too much for your group's standard to handle, especially when your pally healer is bad.

Bring a better pally healer, and 2 heal it, you should go disc instead, or shadow, last phase is a race, you CANT outlast the boss with 3 healers.

Get to phase 2 with 3 adds, anymore than that is not healthy for your healer's blue bar.

Again, interrupts, both on adds, and MCs, crucial to down the fight.

U can 3 heal it, lot of ppl did,
but we also used 2 healers, me as resto druid and a pala healer, we healed exactly for the same...resto druid got buffed lately mate

If you can improve pala healing probably 2 healers is better,
also avoid unnecessary dmg and interrupt asap.

[Zka]

We had an 1500 hp wipe on it last week... It's pretty much a wasd and dps check and you're fucked if you don't have adequate aoe slow and aoe dps.
It's perfectly 3 healable by the way.
Pulling to throne didn't work for us, probably our timing is bad.