The Alterac Valley imbalance, now with 7% units of percantage more facts.

[MasterHamster]

So after reading through the news, I realized something while reading some of the posts.
There are actually people who doesn't recognize the clear terrain-advantage the Alliance has in AV?
What does the graphs tell us? They show significant difference in win:loss even over hundreds of thousands of games.
Suddenly the Alliance turn the tables completely in AV, where the Horde ironically dominated rushing games until:
*Horde cave pushed back.
*Horde cave pushed back AGAIN.
*Balinda seriously buffed.
*AND GOT ICE BLOCK.

When was the last time you considered:
*Frostwolf Towers are free to cap. Archers cannot shoot you at the flag.
(Bunkers have this one special square-feet area where you can cap without getting shot and thus forced to kill an archer.)

*The Frostwolf Towers are perfectly placed to always attract a few alliance to stay there, and why not? They're stationed only metres from the faceroll-route.
(Compare to SH Bunker which is secluded from the general faceroll-route. Also, alliance that spawns at SH GY are very likely to go for SH Bunker, as it is very visible while traveling south. Same with IW Bunker, it's visible right after you ressurect at SH GY.)

*Traveltime between Bunkers compared to Towers.

*The hordes IB GY is placed with a mountain between it and IW Tower. The first Law of BG Faceroll is to care only of what you can see while respawning. Hordes rarely go south from IW GY.

*Galvangar has nothing worth mentioning. Keep an eye on reinforcements. How often does the Alliance drop to 500 before the Horde? Once every tenth game?
(Balinda with her lovely Ice Block.)

*While entering the Alliance base you WILL take many times more damage from archers than when rushing Frostwolf.
(The only time you'll actually care about the Horde archers are if you're alone rushing FW GY.)

*AS is swarming with high health elites.
(How many do you attract while doing the obvious avoiding-route through lower Frostwolf Keep? The orc female with a couple dozen thousand health?)

The Wonder Bridge. Perfect placement for the archers while the few defenders keep you there. Any AoE will aggro the dwarf chilling at the end of it.
(Where in Frostwolf would you have to be to be in any real danger by the archers? Ah, right outside Drek'thar )

No, preaching about the magical Scorched Earth doesn't justify it. BGs are faceroll and the Horde are at a disadvantage in AV because of it. There's a clear terrain advantage, a clear advantage of how Towers vs Bunkers are placed and their layout. Traveltime does differ. AV can only be balanced during long games, which are gone since years back.

The only reason Blizzard aren't doing anything about it is because of the clear Horde dominance in the rest of the Battlegrounds.

But let me guess, the graphs are completely wrong. A sudden 7~ units of percentage jump in Win:loss is without a doubt caused by SOMETHING ELSE than above mentioned reasons, right?

[Feel The Power]

The things stated here have been stated countless times in the past. Everyone has known for years that alliance have a terrain advantage, and there is really no reason to write angry sounding posts over this anymore.

[Taaj]

This really is old news. And sadly, it will probably never change.

[Deleted]

Ahh well.

Having a terrain advantage in one battleground at least somewhat compensates for the superior racials on Horde side with respect to PvP and, arguably, PvE.

[MasterHamster]

Ahh well.

Having a terrain advantage in one battleground at least somewhat compensates for the superior racials on Horde side with respect to PvP and, arguably, PvE.

We're not in BC anymore.

[Exp]

So after reading through the news, I realized something while reading some of the posts.
There are actually people who doesn't recognize the clear terrain-advantage the Alliance has in AV?
What does the graphs tell us? They show significant difference in win:loss even over hundreds of thousands of games.
Suddenly the Alliance turn the tables completely in AV, where the Horde ironically dominated rushing games until:
*Horde cave pushed back.
*Horde cave pushed back AGAIN.
*Balinda seriously buffed.
*AND GOT ICE BLOCK.

When was the last time you considered:
*Frostwolf Towers are free to cap. Archers cannot shoot you at the flag.
(Bunkers have this one special square-feet area where you can cap without getting shot and thus forced to kill an archer.)

*The Frostwolf Towers are perfectly placed to always attract a few alliance to stay there, and why not? They're stationed only metres from the faceroll-route.
(Compare to SH Bunker which is secluded from the general faceroll-route. Also, alliance that spawns at SH GY are very likely to go for SH Bunker, as it is very visible while traveling south. Same with IW Bunker, it's visible right after you ressurect at SH GY.)

*Traveltime between Bunkers compared to Towers.

*The hordes IB GY is placed with a mountain between it and IW Tower. The first Law of BG Faceroll is to care only of what you can see while respawning. Hordes rarely go south from IW GY.

*Galvangar has nothing worth mentioning. Keep an eye on reinforcements. How often does the Alliance drop to 500 before the Horde? Once every tenth game?
(Balinda with her lovely Ice Block.)

*While entering the Alliance base you WILL take many times more damage from archers than when rushing Frostwolf.
(The only time you'll actually care about the Horde archers are if you're alone rushing FW GY.)

*AS is swarming with high health elites.
(How many do you attract while doing the obvious avoiding-route through lower Frostwolf Keep? The orc female with a couple dozen thousand health?)

The Wonder Bridge. Perfect placement for the archers while the few defenders keep you there. Any AoE will aggro the dwarf chilling at the end of it.
(Where in Frostwolf would you have to be to be in any real danger by the archers? Ah, right outside Drek'thar )

No, preaching about the magical Scorched Earth doesn't justify it. BGs are faceroll and the Horde are at a disadvantage in AV because of it. There's a clear terrain advantage, a clear advantage of how Towers vs Bunkers are placed and their layout. Traveltime does differ. AV can only be balanced during long games, which are gone since years back.

The only reason Blizzard aren't doing anything about it is because of the clear Horde dominance in the rest of the Battlegrounds.

But let me guess, the graphs are completely wrong. A sudden 7~ units of percentage jump in Win:loss is without a doubt caused by SOMETHING ELSE than above mentioned reasons, right?

You forgot to mention that the two frostwolf towers in the keep are about 15yds away from each other, while the allys have a 70yd gap between theirs. And you'll suffer at least 70k dmg traveling between them just from the archers. Then you'll have to fight the elite that stands right outside the south bunker


yeah, imbalanced. But, the reason it will stay this way is becaused if it were made balanced the alliance would rarely win. So im okay with letting them keep the one bg they win more often than the horde

[Captain Noctus]

OMG!! Horde don't dominate this BG like the others! MUST WRITE ANGRY POST!!
Um... so?

You're welcome to write a constructive rebuttal; please don't just post to say you don't care about the post.

[Slanter]

and yet available data shows it to be the most balanced BG in terms of win %...

[WillFeral]

The Horde lose AV for 1 reason...most of us dont play AV we rather play the other ones which is why we dominate every single one of them so grats Alliance on winning AV whenever you get ready to actually do a bg where the main priority isnt killing npc's (irony at its best) we will be waiting...in the graveyard like usual camping you.

[Deleted]

I think you can take that 1 BG loss, while Alliance loses all the other (based on percentages as which the OP does too.)

[Ewokmywewok]

you can't let alliance have this 1 BG? you have to win all of them?

[Deleted]

the Alliance in AV are easier to bottleneck (not sure if thats the right term) where you can trap them up north, as the only route out is that little path, once horde have SH GY the allies are trapped

edit -- also stables is closer than farm is to start in AB!!! OMMMGG!
at least i think it is, it is always capped about a second before farm is :P

[Deleted]

People saying it doesn't matter because Horde is better at every other BG are wrong.
A BG like SoTA, which 100% the same for both sides, still has more Horde wins.
AV is the only BG which stands out compared to the others, therefor common logic would be that if anything, that's one of the most unbalanced BG's.

[MasterHamster]

OMG!! Horde don't dominate this BG like the others! MUST WRITE ANGRY POST!!
Um... so?

Yes, why fix what's broken.

and yet available data shows it to be the most balanced BG in terms of win %...

/facedesk
Since the Horde dominates all other Battlegrounds, there's a sea of reasons why alliance suddenly turn the tables in AV.
AV most balanced? Please. Do some more considerring than just looking at the one BG where it's nearly 50-50

I think you can take that 1 BG loss, while Alliance loses all the other (based on percentages as which the OP does too.)

There's a number of theories why the Horde dominates.
This ain't BC so stop talking about racials. The Horde attracts PvP players, because it attracts PvP players. It's self-sustaining.

you mad or somtin elsee?

Yup.

you can't let alliance have this 1 BG? you have to win all of them?

Two wrongs doesn't make one right. AV is broken and should be changed, even though it'd make the Alliance lose the one BG they can win without thinking.

And I sure wouldn't mind having my favorite BG to be atleast equal on mechanical terms. The reasons I specify are based on layout, design and the overall mindset of random BG players. There's no coordination, there's no real teamwork. People rush north or south and hope to get there first. Too bad the Horde cannot do so in the current design.

the Alliance in AV are easier to bottleneck (not sure if thats the right term) where you can trap them up north, as the only route out is that little path, once horde have SH GY the allies are trapped

Are you aware that capping SH GY makes you a phariah?

Yeah... let's make the rest of the BGs also "unfair" because that way its "fair" since alliance lose most of them, that way they get a handicap.

I love the way some people think around here...

On mirror-maps, Horde dominates. Why? There are several theories.
When the Alliance rides the baby-AV ride, they win. Why? I specified why.

[Lightitup]

This really is old news. And sadly, it will probably never change.

No it won't. Blizzard just likes your money.

[Sunshine]

Keep it constructive, please. If we feel like discussing why a battleground might show bias in either direction, feel free. If we feel like yelling at the OP / posting "u mad?", please just refrain from posting.

[Deleted]

I guess horde has got more wins on equal bgs like warsong because of the pvp racials -> more pvp players attracted -> profit!

[conscript]

Ahh well.

Having a terrain advantage in one battleground at least somewhat compensates for the superior racials on Horde side with respect to PvP and, arguably, PvE.

There is no arguably to it for PvE. Horde racials are vastly better for nearly every race than anything the Alliance has.

On topic, no one is surprised by this at all. Everyone has known that AV is tilted towards the Alliance. I think the bigger point is how, even with their shortcomings in the bg, Horde still has a very comparable win percentage to the Alliance in AV. Speaks to the quality of Alliance players or that there is a serious disparity in racial/factional balance. Probably a little of both.

[charnyl]

AV is very winnable by horde. Defense on Galv, recap towers and wiping the first wave of Galv attackers then push forward.

AV is easily lost by horde. Zerg to end in an attempt to out rush Alliance on a map that clearly gives them a zerg advantage.

I am that horde capping Snowfall Graveyard to force a turtle. Complain if you must, yet winning by reinforcement count beats losing to a failed zerg attempt.

[klurejr]

Is it more that AV is unbalanced in favor of the Alliance, or that every other map is unbalanced in favor of the horde? Or, are the horde just better in General?

With the vast majority of wins going to the Horde on every other BG, why are you complaining about the one map that is not dominated by the horde? Is this more even playing field ruining your life?

I have been in plenty of AV matches where the Horde Wins, if perhaps the percentage was 70-30 in favor of alliance I could agree with you. Even considering the numbers posted are not 100% accurate since they are not from Blizzard, the AV matches for the last year show barely a 2% difference. "The "Battlegrounds Wins in the Last Year" graph is the only thing you should look at if you want an idea of how things are balanced these days."

Essentially the Horde dominate PVP, and on one map things are pretty even, get over yourself.