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  1. #61
    ZA and ZG are so different the only thing in common is the name. Who cares about 5 mans any way. And Rag is bad-fucking-ass and fits in with the theme of this expansion perfectly. Al'Akir (wind), Neptulon (water) and Therazane (earth) are all present so Rag can't be missing out can he.

  2. #62
    So people are upset that instead of creating a brand new lore line...they use one that already exists and has a viable explanation as to why it would return? So they should ignore the fact that we are back on our old stomping grounds, and just keep creating new things instead of going back and allowing us to "finish the job". We have never killed Ragnaros. He was not fully summoned, and we just pushed him back to his plane. This is a possible reason for him now having legs, he was not completed properly before. He even says that before you fight him...TOO SOON! YOU HAVE AWAKENED ME TOO SOON, EXECUTUS! WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS INTRUSION?. Executus did not allow for the summoning to finish since we were coming for ragnaros.

    ZG and ZA are not the same as they used to be, there is a new chain of command in the trolls there. I remember a quest saying something about that ( I think, I might be wrong).

    People will never be pleased. You beg for free epics, then complain when you get them that everyone else gets them too. You complain when stuff is too hard, so they nerf it then you complain about it being too easy. Play the game in the way they wanted it to be or don't play. Vanilla was so good because they didn't listen to every complaining noob on the forums. Just because something was too hard for a few didn't mean it had a nerf incoming like it does now. Yes there were nerfs in vanilla, but that was because of mechanics being nearly impossible to beat.

  3. #63
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    My .02 cents is that blizzard is not going to be changing much with the place but there are just going to be giving it a new place, buff there healths, add new loot.
    Videos that have been released just destroyed your 0.02 cents
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  4. #64
    Here's what I see.
    ZOMG THEY ARE REMAKING OLD RAIDS INTO 5 MANS?! WHAT THE FUCK BLIZZ SUCKS!
    ZOMG THEY MADE KARA INTO A 85 5 MAN?! WAY TO GO BLIZZ!
    Nuff said.
    WoW only has 10 million subscribers it must be dying! WoW sucks!
    I'm sorry no, clearly you didn't see Chuck Norris allowed 10 million to survive his Purge.

  5. #65
    I find the complaining pretty hilarious seeing as you're probably looking at more than double the content this patch over the equivalent patch in Wrath. Assuming all the info available 4.1 could be as big as:

    *ZG (Heroic 5 man)
    *ZA (Heroic 5 man)
    *Abyssal Maw (Heroic 5 man)
    *Firelands (10/25 raid)
    *War of the Ancients (10/25 raid)

    You can say they're getting lazy if you want, but considering they've openly stated the most time consuming part of making new content is art/terrain design, it makes sense. They have this massive world, a large portion of which is unused. Doesn't it make sense that to churn out content faster, use some of their existing resources, and to tie up story lines they've ignored since vanilla/BC, they might continue doing what they started with DM/SFK? Doesn't that kind of seem like the whole freaking point of this expansion?

  6. #66
    It's a continuing story. The fact that you can call it uncreative and lazy is amazing. Because when you have a story, it has these things, they are called characters, and usually they stick around for a while. Especially important characters, even when those ones go away, they tend to only go away for a while and then come back, because you know, THEY ARE IMPORTANT!!

    Complaining about Blizzard telling a story? The reason why most people play games, because they are a story?!? An escape from reality!?! You mean, a fictional piece of work that has a plot and characters, but they use important ones more than once!?! Wow, that's so terrible...

    And 5th anniversary Onyxia was not lazy, it was nostalgia, there's a HUGE difference.

    People really need to just quit their bitching about every little fucking thing. It's pathetic. Just be happy and play the game you're paying to play. And if you don't like it, QUIT. No one is making you do it!!! I promise you that.
    Last edited by Handsylton; 2011-02-26 at 05:10 AM.

  7. #67
    They really do just need to leave characters dead for good. Make Ragnaros the last to have a mere setback and create new ones from this point on. It's actually quite funny when you keep reading about all the bosses we've fought multiple times. Kael'thas, Naxx, Onyxia twice, Nefarian, Ragnaros... just let them die...

  8. #68
    I'm getting pretty tired of this, I don't get why people whine so much about this, it's not the same thing as the old stuff. it's like if you had an old pc then swapped out all the hardware in it with brand new stuff, would the computer still be the same because it uses the same tower? ofc not, gah!

    I personally prefer 10 bosses looking the same but having different abilites instead of 10 bosses looking different but with the same abilities.

  9. #69
    The Patient Amaranth's Avatar
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    Wall of text incoming.

    The primary reason Ragnaros is back is because we didn't KILL him, just like we didn't KILL Kil'Jaeden. We merely stopped them from fully entering Azeroth (hence why neither of them had legs). SFL and DM came back because the dungeon design was genius and the Devs wondered if they could keep the same familiar locations but insert a new story for each one (I love 'em both). ZA and ZG are coming back because they were player favorites in their prime, and I think lots of BC and Banilla raiders will enjoy the nostalgia trip of burning through them a couple times.

    Nefarian is back because Deathwing is a doucher. That and the whole BWD raid makes a lot of sense, aside from Ony being back AGAIN... At least she's different and there are no whelps.

    As for reusing skins... When all the armor sets looked different (see: Burning Crusade), LOADS of people complained that their gear looked mismatched and stupid. Blizz responded by homogenizing the looks a little bit. They re-use locations because this isn't some discovery of another world or continent like past expansions; the theme of this one is massive change to what we know. This brings me back to SFK and DM. It's the same (or similar in some cases) locations, but a different groups occupy them.

    Don't assume Blizz devs are being lazy when you don't know shit. People complain content doesn't come out fast enough, so devs take creative liberties with existing stuff and revamp it to freshen it up a bit. If I were in their place, forced to choose between players bitching about homogenization and players bitching (and quitting) because content released too far apart, I'd go with the former.

    And don't bring in the 'CAN'T BLIZZ JUST HIRE MORE PEOPLE OMG THEY MAEK SO MUCH MONEYZ', because that's not how it works. You can't just bring in a large pool of employees for a couple months then let them all go because you don't need them anymore. Blizz already employs ~5000 people.

    Also, if Jin'Rohk, The Great Apocalypse is brought back, I'm going TG again with that and Zin'Rohk.

    The only non-lore reusing of any instance ever is the Naxxramas tune-up. It felt kind of at home because of the 'everything undead lolretpally' expansion, but Wrath consisted of more than just Naxx 10/25. It was a largely experimental expansion in which lots of concepts and mechanics were tested. Some worked out for the better, and the ones that didn't were improved upon. I'm pretty sure Blizzard knows that their community won't always be pleased all of the time, but cut them some fuckin slack. They provide an enormously expansive game for 12mil+ people and seem to catch nothing but flack for it. Honestly, I'm glad you spoiled B-holes are complaining. Gives me something to vent on.
    Last edited by Amaranth; 2011-02-26 at 10:31 AM.
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hungrydingo View Post
    They really do just need to leave characters dead for good. Make Ragnaros the last to have a mere setback and create new ones from this point on. It's actually quite funny when you keep reading about all the bosses we've fought multiple times. Kael'thas, Naxx, Onyxia twice, Nefarian, Ragnaros... just let them die...
    My biggest pet peeve when this subject comes up is people using Kael'thas as an example. He never returned because he never went anywhere. Ten minutes after you beat him in Tempest Keep he pops up in Shattrath mocking you and heralding the return of his true master. It's not like months later Blizzard suddenly ran out of ideas and decided to insert him into the Kil'jaeden storyline.

    Same thing with Ragnaros, and even Naxxramas. It was speculated back in Vanilla that Naxxramas would play a future role because of the quest text when you handed in Kel'thuzad's phylactery to Father Montoy. With the exception of Onyxia and Nefarian these "returns" were obviously mapped out far, far, far in advance and were part of an overall plan.

  11. #71
    Given the amount of people that complained about the removal of Zul'Gurub (myself included) they've done us all a favour by bringing it back, in my honest opinion. It's 'recycled content' only so far as the names and possibly the concepts, all the abilities will probably be retuned, and the loot as well.
    The only people that might be bored of it are the ones that haven't got to go to BWD or BoT yet.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-26 at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    My biggest pet peeve when this subject comes up is people using Kael'thas as an example. He never returned because he never went anywhere. Ten minutes after you beat him in Tempest Keep he pops up in Shattrath mocking you and heralding the return of his true master. It's not like months later Blizzard suddenly ran out of ideas and decided to insert him into the Kil'jaeden storyline.

    Same thing with Ragnaros, and even Naxxramas. It was speculated back in Vanilla that Naxxramas would play a future role because of the quest text when you handed in Kel'thuzad's phylactery to Father Montoy. With the exception of Onyxia and Nefarian these "returns" were obviously mapped out far, far, far in advance and were part of an overall plan.
    This holds true for the BC bosses, but I have to admit I was a little amused by Sinestria. She was basically disintegrated, and she returned from that OK. Is there any way to keep these guys dead? :P

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleraith View Post
    This holds true for the BC bosses, but I have to admit I was a little amused by Sinestria. She was basically disintegrated, and she returned from that OK. Is there any way to keep these guys dead? :P
    More amusing than that is the fact that the entire basis behind Sinestra as a lore character is that she was the only dragon who was able to withstand the power of Deathwing's cock.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    More amusing than that is the fact that the entire basis behind Sinestra as a lore character is that she was the only dragon who was able to withstand the power of Deathwing's cock.
    HAHAHA. Oh god, well maybe that's why she was able to be un-particalized. She is STRNG. Onyxia being a giant electrical construct is kinda cool in the raid though. She doesn't seem to be completely sentient, her animation movements and looks suggest otherwise. But Neffy? WE CUT HIS HEAD OFF TOO. Why are you still beating us up man?

  14. #74
    They're back for lore reasons. That's all there is to it.

  15. #75
    As many people that don't like 'recycled' content, there are easily twice as many people that do like it....either because they never experienced it to begin with or because they really liked it...a lot of people liked ZA and ZG for example, including myself, and I'm glad to see it coming back revamped, with new rewards. As for Ragnoros, this is nothing new, we've known he'd be there for over a year now. and they even made a totally new design for him in a totally new instance, there is not much to complain about there. And enemies would not feel very powerful if they all just dropped dead...you have to have some escape to fight again another day, for example, like KJ. As long as they keep up the challenge and fun of the raid content, I could care less about anything else. its all about the fun for me, and many others I know.

  16. #76
    i think their idea behind all these revamping raids in dungeons bringing old raid bosses back is to let people who may not have done the stuff before expierience it, they do get a lot of new people prob on a daily basis.

    as far as laziness when it comes to raids i dont think they are i think thye puit alot of time into it, i think tot4w and vortex pinnancle look amazing with some fun fights.

  17. #77
    It's interesting that people are complaining about older bosses being brought back. If the Nef fight in BWD was called Fenarion instead and it was a purple dragon with spikes, would it have been a better fight? Does it lose its value because of its added addition of lore and nostalgia? I think it gains value.

  18. #78
    Pandaren Monk Yosef1015's Avatar
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    I for one, LOVE the fact that they are adding ZG and ZA in the next patch, I loved both of them and it has been a while since we have seen any troll dungeons. As for Firelands, your QQing. It is a 100% new raid, the only thing they have brought back to it so far is Ragnaros. Blizzard can't make millions of different cool models for every single patch they come out with. Blizzard is not lazy. That's my point zero two cents.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroll View Post

    Raid:

    You have Nef, and eventually Rag. That still leaves what, 19+ new raid bosses? THat's less than 1/3 of raid content.

    SFK, Deadmines, ZA, and ZG.

    Compared to:

    Throne, BRC, GB, HoO, Lost City, Stonecore, VP

    Thats 7 new, 4 recycled.

    What the heck is the problem? THey are lazy because they are in Azeroth and thus are retooling.... Azeroth for 85? Classic was great, and what they are doing now makes logical sense. They also have injected PLENTY OF NEW, way more new then they are old.
    Ok first of all - Do you remember when they said they were bringin back DM as heroic? People loved it. Now when they got what they wanted they hate it - lols.
    Anyways. DM SFK ZA and ZG are all "recycled", although they are not recycled per se, they are revamped to fit new lore and they have evolved some own lore, nothing to do with the old content)
    Ragnaros, Nef and Onyxia are not recycled in any way other than the same name and MAYBE abit of the same models as before. The encounters are completely new, and the fights are new.
    The new mount (Firehawk) uses the same skeleton as proto-drake, sure, but it still looks badass and has its own model.

    It's better to evolve lore and work on existing stuff, rather than pull some new shit out of your ass.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-26 at 10:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    More amusing than that is the fact that the entire basis behind Sinestra as a lore character is that she was the only dragon who was able to withstand the power of Deathwing's cock.
    LMAO thanks for my new sig xD
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    But if you tell your girlfriend the story she'll hear this: bla bla bla bla catherina bla bla bla
    Response: Who's Catherina?

  20. #80
    Ok first off the Warcraft story doesn't have enough lore to make new and original bosses for every single heroic and raid instance. Second, I don't know why you'd complain about ZG and ZA considering those were both good raids. Third, countless movies, books, TV shows, video games, etc have recurring villains. It's not like Blizzard is the only company to ever reuse characters, I actually like seeing continuation to the cooler villains, rather than just beating them once and never seeing or hearing from them ever again. With the exception of Onyxia most reused bosses/instances at least feature new lore to them.

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