Chelley's Staff of Dark Mending Boomkin Discussion

[Barberq]

That staff is best in slot for Moonkin along with the Arch Staff now. Moonkin should have won the item. That being said, don't PUG and expect to be treated fairly.

[Rhaide]

That staff is best in slot for Moonkin along with the Arch Staff now. Moonkin should have won the item. That being said, don't PUG and expect to be treated fairly.

I refer you to graymatter, they are AWESOME at listing gear options, to quote them:

"The nail in the two handed coffin is that there are really no good two handed options. There are a couple of 359 epic staffs, but I'm not sure if the heroic option even exists. If a staff is a clear upgrade then use it, but remember it has to be an overwhelming improvement to make up for the 40 Int enchant you lose on the off hand. In short, avoid staves."

http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/p/...-as-of_06.html

As a boomkin, you are supposed to use 1 handers, you shouldn't even be looking at this staff.

[Anathor]

as you can still get hit on weapons

You're the second one to make this claim. Show us where you can get hit on weapons?

(inb4 you tell me there's hit on OH items)

Also re: your claim that moonkins shouldn't look at 2handers, in this case I can retort that NO CASTER CLASS should look at 2her, since they all benefit evenly from the +40 int on OH enchant.

[Master Guns]

I wouldn't have given the staff to a moonkin over a legitimate MS healer. It's a healer staff. Just because you have a talent that converts spirit into hit, doesn't mean it should go to you first. Seems more like a second option kind of thing to me, in terms of loot distribution.

[crazyb]

You absolutely should have gotten the staff. Spirit is a valid stat for Boomkins, Ele's, and SPriests as much as it is valid for the healers. People are just stuck in the past and do not realize what the spirit change means.

If it was a guild raid I would say it should go to a healer first, but in a pug, that staff is MS for you and you won the roll (my guild has 2 Booms that use that staff right now, though the two heals that received it the first times it dropped were given priority in the guild runs).

[Deleted]

Also re: your claim that moonkins shouldn't look at 2handers, in this case I can retort that NO CASTER CLASS should look at 2her, since they all benefit evenly from the +40 int on OH enchant.

I could be wrong, but I think that enchant has been nerfed.

[crazyb]

I could be wrong, but I think that enchant has been nerfed.

You are correct, but the +40 is the nerf (it used to be +100).

[link064]

Short answer no, you shouldn't have gotten it.

Long answer, the hit talent for boomkin is to balance out the fact that they wanted to stop putting so many different item sets in the game. They figured if they made spirit translate to hit for boomkin and ele shaman that they could stop putting hit on mail and leather gear and smash it into spirit. The fact that you translate spirit into hit is specifically for armor not weapons as you can still get hit on weapons

Let me put it this way, you can use hit or spirit on a weapon, healers can only use spirit. This is basically the same argument as 'I'm a boomkin why can't I wear cloth if it's an upgrade even though this clothy wants it?' Widely regarded as a bad move, and blizzard came out against it by creating the 'armor specializations'.

TL;DR - You can use hit on weapons, healers can't, let them have the spirit weapons. You can fight over armor.

Really? As a boomkin I can get hit on my weapons? Odd, I don't see it. Please at least do some research before posting.

Aside from this, it is also worthwhile to note that casters need 1742 hit rating to cap and if a boomkin got 100% of their hit from reforging (as some of you people seem to suggest), it would require reforging 4355 secondary stats to hit cap (1742/.4=4355). Even if every piece of gear you owned had 200 secondary stats (like 200 haste/crit), it would require reforging 22 pieces of gear which is clearly not possible. So, for the love of all that is holy, please stop spewing this BS that we can "reforge to hit cap".

Also, since hit is our best secondary stat, why should we be forced to get worse stats and then reforge to a better stat instead of picking up a better stat and then reforging off what we need? If we were to play that game, then all healers should only roll on non-spirit pieces and reforge to pick up some spirit. Isn't that how it works? /facepalm

[Digory Kirke]

I would put in a ticket. If that doesn't work, I would put in a second ticket. Get the Raid ID if you can.

[omgooses]

Short answer no, you shouldn't have gotten it.

Long answer, the hit talent for boomkin is to balance out the fact that they wanted to stop putting so many different item sets in the game. They figured if they made spirit translate to hit for boomkin and ele shaman that they could stop putting hit on mail and leather gear and smash it into spirit. The fact that you translate spirit into hit is specifically for armor not weapons as you can still get hit on weapons

Let me put it this way, you can use hit or spirit on a weapon, healers can only use spirit. This is basically the same argument as 'I'm a boomkin why can't I wear cloth if it's an upgrade even though this clothy wants it?' Widely regarded as a bad move, and blizzard came out against it by creating the 'armor specializations'.

TL;DR - You can use hit on weapons, healers can't, let them have the spirit weapons. You can fight over armor.

Once again you didn't read the thread replies...

tehre are
ZERO HIT WEAPONS in this current tier of 359 gear.
There are:
2 BOA staves ( arch one haste/crit one spirit/crit)
3 main hand epic weapons (one crit spirit [ZOMG another "healer" weapon right? lul], one crit/mastery and one haste/mastery)

the only thing that has actual HIT rating on it is the offhand from Halfus

While i wouldn't take the staff for my boomkin because MH/OH combos are better, he should've gotten it, because 1) he probably doesn't have access to the MH/OH's, 2) its still perfectly useable, 3) he followed the loot rules and 4) its was a god damned pug, not an organized guild run who are looking to better the guildies, so don't start puling this bull crap about "oh well a healer should get it first cus you gear healers and tanks first."

[Nightlark]

pugs are dumb, end of discussion.

[Deleted]

Hi credibility.

Healers benefit more from spirit than spirit benefits some casters in terms of hit.
Casters that uses spirit for hit will eventually reforge spirit/hit.
Healers will never reforge spirit. There's plenty of 1handed + offhand combo's that's way better for moonkins. there's only 1 staff that's drop in t11 content + the 1or2 from archealogy. giving a healer that spirit boost (no mainhand weps in T11 except nefarian mace has spirit on it) will be more benefit to said healer than said caster with hit = spirit.
Also spirit is the only way for passive mana regen for healers, and others for that matter, while all casters can take a piece with hit rating instead.

We've talked alot of this in our guild and we got a elem shaman and a moonkin in our 10man and we prio spirit cloak, ring and such (offset) to healer because it benefits a healer more with manaregen than any caster with hit.

Yeah the leader might have ninjaed and been a cock about it, still doesnt change the fact that healers benefit more than dps from spirit.

Bye credibility.

[Iyotanka]

Short answer no, you shouldn't have gotten it...The fact that you translate spirit into hit is specifically for armor not weapons as you can still get hit on weapons...

There are no staves of or above iLevel 359 in game at the moment with hit on them. Now assuming we don't need the hit that staff is second best (not counting its own heroic equivalent) only to Staff of Sorcer-Thane Thaurissan from Archaeology. If we do need the hit then it's the best staff one can get (again, not counting its own heroic equivalent).

There are also no 359 or above main hand weapons with hit. There are off-hands with hit, but only one above 359 while two have spirit. The fact is blizzard increased the number of spirit items in game with the intention that anyone who could make use of spirit would be rolling on them.

I haven't played every spec of every class, but just gathering from my base knowledge and what I gather from my guildies there are eight specs that use spirit either for regen as a healer or hit as a dps. That's compared to what I believe is six specs (only counting casters, to whom this staff would appeal) who in no way benefit from spirit...not counting out of combat mana regen of course.

I refer you to graymatter, they are AWESOME at listing gear options, to quote them:

"The nail in the two handed coffin is that there are really no good two handed options. There are a couple of 359 epic staffs, but I'm not sure if the heroic option even exists. If a staff is a clear upgrade then use it, but remember it has to be an overwhelming improvement to make up for the 40 Int enchant you lose on the off hand. In short, avoid staves."

http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/p/...-as-of_06.html

As a boomkin, you are supposed to use 1 handers, you shouldn't even be looking at this staff.

Gray Matter is very useful. I watch his gear lists as well. But I find it interesting that you chose not to bold "If a staff is a clear upgrade then use it..." Not knowing what he was replacing, it's not your place to assume it wasn't an upgrade. I wouldn't take a staff someone else could use if I was going from 359 to 359, but 346 or below to 359? Damn right I would, and did. I have always preferred staves and I'm extremely happy with this one, thank you very much. It could only be improved if it had haste instead of mastery, but mastery being our second best secondary dps stat it's still awesome (I don't count spirit/hit as a secondary stat).

Furthermore, what he said in that post there applies to all casters. The reason balance druids shouldn't use staves is because of the off-hand enchant. Can't everyone use off-hand enchants? Or just us? Pretty sure your argument makes that staff useless to everyone.

[gamingmuscle]

Err you can use also gear without spirit or hit, and then reforge haste/crit/mastery into spirit, whereas a healer needs ALL the spirit he can get? They don't have a cap that can be reached by reforging like 8 pieces to spirit, boomkins do.

Yeah reforging for hit won't get you capped. You need Hit/spirit items.

[.viridis]

If the staff was an upgrade you should have got it, especially since you stated since the outset you would be rolling on it.
However at this tier staves aren't optimal so if you already had an epic main hand or offhand then it certainly should have gone to a healer.
This was a PuG though and not a guild run so if upgrade = allowed to roll in my mind.

[Trispec]

Until the legendary staff is available next tier, don't even look at a staff.

[Vaze]

i honestly thought that the main hand from magmaw and the offhand from halfus were better then the staff?

[GrodinLB]

The problem isn't so much that the spirit = hit, so much as why would a boomkin want a staff with the other secondary stat being mastery?

[Sarjin]

I would personally differentiate between two scenarios here.

Should you have gotten it in a loosely organized PuG? Probably, considering you can make use of all the stats and it probably was an upgrade for your mainspec. (Whereas a mage or warlock would be an obvious no because the Spirit does nothing for them). Since you are able to make use of all the stats, it could be argued a valid mainspec roll.

On the other hand, the next question would be, should you have gotten this in a guild run? My personal opinion there would be no. Healers generally will need Spirit in every slot, whereas I am under the impression that you do not need Spirit in every slot to hit cap (if this is not true, then this obviously changes). While for armor pieces the Spirit itemization usually has several alternatives, Blizzard for some reason has provided a shocking lack of non armor Spirit gear. Whereas for example chest features off-set drops and set items, there's a total of two rings with Spirit this tier (one of which comes from the Valor vendor), one Spirit necklace, as well as a lack of Spirit weapons. 1H+OH is optimal currently due to the enchant imbalance, and the only option there is the mace off Nefarian. For Resto Druids, Holy Priests and Disc Priests, the most viable alternative is Chelley's Staff, as it's the only other raid drop with Spirit on it. There's a total of 5 other weapons without Spirit. Three of which are usable by moonkins and two of which are relatively easy to obtain (Incineratus from Magmaw and Blade of the Witching Hour from Valiona &Theralion). For this reason in a guild situation I feel the staff should be prioritized to healing Priests and Druids over moonkins and shadowpriests, and you should not have gotten it in that scenario.