1. #1
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,136

    Alternate History Idea.

    As a fan of military history and the concept of Causality, I would like to point out a few things in history.
    Way back in the 1780s America chose English as it language over German.


    I like to create a game called what if America Choose German instead.

    Demographics and turning point differences:
    In the late 1780s Much of the population of the North East, where of German, Dutch, and French origin, only the ruling classes where British, whereas most of the South was of British origin.
    List out turning points.

    Civil War – the Federalist President Abraham Lincoln caused Britten to not join the war because he made it a war about slavery. If the North spoke, German and the south spoke English the south would have won because Brittan would have helped win the war. This would have caused North America to have Canada English/French, USA German, CSA English, MSA Spanish. The western states would have most likely stayed Mexican and Texas would be split up into Mexican and English Texas. It would end up being its own nation after a time. Because of California Mexico would become incredibly wealthy. And the Spanish American War wouldn’t happen. The Northern USA would become just as industrial but they would be primarily pro German and the CSA would become sort of, like what India became.
    When the First World War came around USA would support the Kiser and Canada and the South would Support Brittan this would have cause the war to last much longer, and the winner might have been different. Communism may not have spread in Russia, and the Third Riech may have never been formed.

    So for fun, figure out what this world would have been like starting in 1900 with a North America Split up into Canada, French Canada, USA, CSA, Texas, Mexico (with Califonia)

    Also see if you can figure any other place in the world that would be different.

  2. #2
    woow.....what a great thought........amazing

  3. #3
    Only slightly interesting. German wasn't close to being made an official language (snopes to the rescue!), and neither were people of German origin anywhere near a majority. Wikipedia says "...the total white population in 1790 was about 80% British ancestry." As for Britain siding with the confederacy, well lets just say that it would have taken a lot more than sharing a common language for them to declare war on the United States.

    A far more compelling discussion around alternative history ideas is the put forth by historian Robert Sobel in his book "For Want of a Nail" in which he discusses what history would have been like if the United States had lost their battle for independence.

  4. #4
    Blademaster kalamasoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    42
    You do know Germany didn't excist until ~1878?
    Last edited by kalamasoo; 2011-02-27 at 04:21 PM.

  5. #5
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Master Suite at 10 Downing ST. SW. AZ. 11111
    Posts
    17,050
    Quote Originally Posted by kalamasoo View Post
    You do know Germany didn't excist until ~1878?
    some was under austrian rule and the rest was prussia if im not mistaken. been some time since i read the old history book.

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Happy Hunting! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Eightace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,727
    Its not really about choosing your language, the British settled a lot of America, it would be odd for them to suddenly switch to another language.

    As for alternative history, somebody mentioned what would happen if the USA lost the war for independance. What if Napolean had been stopped much sooner, would britain have had the resources to win the war? All of Britains best troops and Generals were busy against the french to worry about America.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Eightace View Post
    Its not really about choosing your language, the British settled a lot of America, it would be odd for them to suddenly switch to another language.

    As for alternative history, somebody mentioned what would happen if the USA lost the war for independance. What if Napolean had been stopped much sooner, would britain have had the resources to win the war? All of Britains best troops and Generals were busy against the french to worry about America.
    All of which is true: however England wouldn't have been able to hold America even if there was no Napoleon because up until this point no European nation had ever fought a war across an ocean and the tactics and resupply lines would have made a long war impossible to fight. look at the war of 1812. War is expensive and fight across an ocean is difficult.

    As for population make up of late 1700s America I have seen several figures and non actually agree, However the populations of each area did diverge greatly, some areas where more English and some areas where more Dutch (and yes Germany was not a Nation, but the Language existed back then) Also the Vote did happen in the First Continental Congress before a president was chosen and while Ben Franklin was attending, he had a good speach as to why English would remain the Nations language and that was that.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-28 at 04:18 PM ----------

    A very telling study is to research religious affiliations in 1800, since Early Churches in America where broken down by national origins, Anglicans where British, Lutherans where Dutch, Calvinist where french, Catholics where uncommon, interestingly this was also the time for more modern Christian Churches such as Baptists started to become popular. Basically each state had different demographics, the commonality was that the rich where mostly of Anglican ancestry, where as the poor came from all of the above.

    The reason English was chosen over German or French was simple because the rich elite where all English and they where the ones most willing to fight and defend America according to Franklin, he also pointed out even though the Dutch population was greater they where also mostly Pacifists. He felt French was a good choice but he didn't want to give the impression that France controlled America.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    some was under austrian rule and the rest was prussia if im not mistaken. been some time since i read the old history book.
    The German Empire was formed in 1878 after the great sway of nationalism that happened from Fanco-Prussian war and Prussian-Austrian war. Germany's two big players was Prussia and Austria,but Austria lost its chance to Prussia after the Prussians used Holstein-Shchiewn or something I can't remember the names in southern Dennmark and stopped any ability of Austria to influence Prussia's affairs there after. Prussia was also the one who led the way to forming a more unified state especially before Otto von Bismark. Austria in the 19th century was really weak and even required the help of Russia to put down some of its own rebellions and Austrian Empire was filled with various ethnics of northern Balkans.

    Also @ Gothic wars have been fought across oceans 7yrs war, the American war of Independence.

    Ultraness is a way of life.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Coous View Post
    Also @ Gothic wars have been fought across oceans 7yrs war
    Which happened just be for the American War of Independence was a European War which had Minor Battles around the World. Most of the fighting in North America involved Native population groups being hired to attack Rival European Settlers. In other parts of the World it was ship vs ship and Sponsored Piracy. No European Nation had Successfully Invaded across an Ocean.

    all of this is Mute since I was putting out an Hypothesis 'What if the USA didn't Speak English how would it affect world history, and what would the world be like today, Also what if in stead of Canada USA and Mexico what if it was English Canada, French Canada, German North East USA, English CSA, Spanish English Texas, and Mexico for the rest. '

    this is note a debate of European Actual History After 1776. but the What if consequences of America being a totally different country.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2011-03-03 at 01:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Which happened just be for the American War of Independence was a European War which had Minor Battles around the World. Most of the fighting in North America involved Native population groups being hired to attack Rival European Settlers. In other parts of the World it was ship vs ship and Sponsored Piracy. No European Nation had Successfully Invaded across an Ocean.

    all of this is Mute since I was putting out an Hypothesis 'What if the USA didn't Speak English how would it affect world history, and what would the world be like today, Also what if in stead of Canada USA and Mexico what if it was English Canada, French Canada, German North East USA, English CSA, Spanish English Texas, and Mexico for the rest. '

    this is note a debate of European Actual History After 1776. but the What if consequences of America being a totally different country.
    Last I check the Spanish conquistadors invaded Mexico and Peru successfully which of both miracles of themselves to fight whole empires with 200-400 men. From what I've heard that German was a candidate to be taught in schools in America,but was never approved. To your hypothesis I can put a blunt answer that study a lot of history all over and from there you can create a scenario that probably will happen.

    Ultraness is a way of life.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Coous View Post
    Last I check the Spanish conquistadors invaded Mexico and Peru successfully which of both miracles of themselves to fight whole empires with 200-400 men. From what I've heard that German was a candidate to be taught in schools in America,but was never approved. To your hypothesis I can put a blunt answer that study a lot of history all over and from there you can create a scenario that probably will happen.
    All things where not equal in your example, a modern nation with fire arms and bio weapons moved against megalithic peoples. p.s. the bio weapon were simple bugs that Europeans where immune to that raged though central and south America killing and weakening a significant portion of the population before the conquerors even got there.

    As for the second part I have studied history, and even though everything stayed English speaking the possibility of German was fairly high.

    I was hoping for people with Imagination to reply not thread derailing not paying attention bunkers who think they are smarter then everyone else even though they ............. edited out before I ruined my own thread. really folks is this the best you can do?
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2011-03-03 at 09:03 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •