Holy Paladin mastery?

[Deleted]

The mastery makes a good trashbuff in PvP.

[mysteel]

on topic
I thought having it in 2s arena would be awesome due to the same reasons Dawon mentioned but I guess 10 seconds duration, no stacking and and no real punch to begin with (you just can't stack it high enough without neglecting better stats) make it useless even there.

- You have a cup of 1 litre size (read: you cast a 10k heal which left a 1k shield (10% mastery) on your target)
- now someone has 10 seconds time to drink from it (Bossdamage)
- If in that time you refill the cup (read: you put anything varying from 1-9.999 healing in it) it will be refilled with


- Your cup initially only lasts for 10 seconds so any cupfilling is in vain if nooene drinks from it

Did i read something wrong, but i am pretty sure our mastery shield only last 8 seconds, not 10 - which idealy makes it even worse

Illuminated Healing

Illuminated Healing
Your direct healing spells also place an absorb shield on your target for 10% of the amount healed lasting 8 sec.  Each point of Mastery increases the absorb amount by an additional 1.25%.

[Fiercon]

Ow c'mon that 2 seconds

... Yeah *blush* you're right. Only makes - like you say - things even worse.

[Timethief]

One of the reasons people think Holy Mastery is the worst, or even a bad stat, is they go by what others say without thinking for themselves. I have to ask; how many of you have actually tried stacking Mastery for a raid to see for yourselves? It's clear Mastery is not clearly understood by the majority of the Holy Paladin community, doubly so with the justification of stacking haste including the extra tick on Radiance... Really? 1, possibly 2 extra ticks? Meter padding is all that adds up to, because in a raid setting, especially 25man, those 1-2 ticks are so insignificant in effectiveness i'm truly shocked how many of you havnt just dropped it off the list of reasons to stack Haste due to how ridiculous a justification it is.

I've actually stacked Mastery and done heroic fights using said build. I have to say, 22% shields are impressive. I say Mastery is misunderstood for two reasons:

1. Nobody looks at the potential. The difference between a 4k shield and an 11k shield on a tank is just that - Your tank's health drops 7,000 less, putting them in less danger and providing you with that much extra time to get their health up if it drops too low. Heroic Maloriak and Engulfing darkness or Heroic Chim... Heroic Atramedes anyone? How about Magmaw, Cho'gall, and virtually every other raid boss...

2. The bigger picture. Mastery saves mana, not just for you, but anyone healing your target. Holy Light putting up a 1.9k shield(noncrit heal) or 3k+ on a crit is healing you or others on your target dont have to do... At the end of a fight my illuminated healing absorbs, on average, 600,000 damage. Cut that down by just over half for your average non-mastery pally and you get 270,000, meaning i did 330,000 healing without spending the mana on it. 330,000 Is 30 Holy Lights or 13ish Divine Lights for me, non-crit... That's a lot of mana i didnt use, or split between myself and anyone else on my tank.

Get one of your hardcore, always right theorycrafters in here and have them compare the mana preservation of our mastery's absorbs vs. Haste stacking for Holy Light/Divine Light to tell you straight up it's not even close - Mastery wins that one. There's a reason i have ample mana throughout the course of a fight and it isnt because other healers are carrying my weight, so dont even bother spewing that ignorance.

Blizzard's minor tweaks after our mastery was introduced are the only ones it's received because our mastery is not total crap. I would suggest you take an opinion as just that, an opinion. Finding out for yourself is what the game is about, because going to the EJ forums, or here, and playing your character a certain way just because someone else said so means you didnt learn anything for yourself and you're doing it just because someone else said so. I fully expect naysayers to slander, but i'd like to remind everyone that once upon a time the people that said the world was round, and not the center of the universe were ridiculed by those of assumed authority for their ideas... And no, we're not a lot smarter now than we were then, so let's keep an open mind, experiment and see for ourselves.

[Atris]

Mastery will not boost your healing done in recout. No reason to even think about it! .

[Nillo]

Mastery will not boost your healing done in recout. No reason to even think about it! .

Mastery is shown in recount...

---------- Post added 2011-03-01 at 02:39 PM ----------

1) One of the reasons people think Holy Mastery is the worst, or even a bad stat, is they go by what others say without thinking for themselves. I have to ask; how many of you have actually tried stacking Mastery for a raid to see for yourselves?
2) It's clear Mastery is not clearly understood by the majority of the Holy Paladin community, doubly so with the justification of stacking haste including the extra tick on Radiance... Really? 1, possibly 2 extra ticks? Meter padding is all that adds up to, because in a raid setting, especially 25man, those 1-2 ticks are so insignificant in effectiveness i'm truly shocked how many of you havnt just dropped it off the list of reasons to stack Haste due to how ridiculous a justification it is.
3) 1. Nobody looks at the potential. The difference between a 4k shield and an 11k shield on a tank is just that - Your tank's health drops 7,000 less, putting them in less danger and providing you with that much extra time to get their health up if it drops too low. Heroic Maloriak and Engulfing darkness or Heroic Chim... Heroic Atramedes anyone? How about Magmaw, Cho'gall, and virtually every other raid boss...

4) The bigger picture. Mastery saves mana, not just for you, but anyone healing your target. Holy Light putting up a 1.9k shield(noncrit heal) or 3k+ on a crit is healing you or others on your target dont have to do...

5) Get one of your hardcore, always right theorycrafters in here and have them compare the mana preservation of our mastery's absorbs vs. Haste stacking for Holy Light/Divine Light to tell you straight up it's not even close - Mastery wins that one. There's a reason i have ample mana throughout the course of a fight and it isnt because other healers are carrying my weight, so dont even bother spewing that ignorance.

1) The thing is that theorycrafters are usually a lot smarter, than people.... like you... and they can provide solid math, why mastery is so bad.

2) Just like all your justifications for stacking mastery are ridiculous.
But let's just look at how much I heal with Holy Radiance vs Illuminated healing... on a fight like Maloriak Heroic with little aoe healing compared to other fights (like nef)
13.6% Holy Radiance (@14 ticks)
4.4% Illuminated Healing
Now some 1000ish haste rating would give me 1 more tick for Holy Radiance which would then be about 1% (1/14*13.6%) more overall healing done.
1000ish mastery rating would give me 5% mastery on top of my 10% that I already have => less than 3% more healing done.
What does this tell me? Yes even on a fight with little AoE healing mastery only provides 3 times as much bonus healing as the bonus of haste to Holy Radiance....

3) Maloriak: As long as your tank is healed to full you don't need that shield on him...
Chimaeron: I have no idea why you bring that one up: P1 it sucks balls because people need to be above 10k health and shields don't count, P2 it sucks balls because you're AoE healing and if you think that tiny extra shield is needed to keep the tank up in heroic mode you're badly mistaken... again waste of a stat for 90% of the fight.
Cho'Gall: Lots of AoE healing => mastery sucks balls.

4) The bigger picture is that every other stat saves you a lot more mana for each point than mastery does...

5) So you call people ignorant when there's proof that mastery sucks everywhere? If you think mastery is not bad you'd better come with some solid math and examples , which you have yet to give...

[Bostonian]

Mastery is shown in recount...[COLOR="red"]

Where is it shown? Is it shown as asorbtion or does it factor into HL, FL, DL depending on the particular heal that created the shield...? I always wanted to know how to track it in Recount!!

Additional, I still think Mastery is sort of broken. Blizz wants us to use Holy Light as are most efficient heal. It heals for about 10k (with gear), so not much of a great shield (from Mastery) will be put on the target, like a 3500 shield that wont absorb a full hit.

[Nillo]

Where is it shown? Is it shown as asorbtion or does it factor into HL, FL, DL depending on the particular heal that created the shield...? I always wanted to know how to track it in Recount!!

Additional, I still think Mastery is sort of broken. Blizz wants us to use Holy Light as are most efficient heal. It heals for about 10k (with gear), so not much of a great shield (from Mastery) will be put on the target, like a 3500 shield that wont absorb a full hit.

It's called Illuminated Healing... and shows up under absorption obviously.

[Deleted]

One of the reasons people think Holy Mastery is the worst, or even a bad stat, is they go by what others say without thinking for themselves. I have to ask; how many of you have actually tried stacking Mastery for a raid to see for yourselves? It's clear Mastery is not clearly understood by the majority of the Holy Paladin community, doubly so with the justification of stacking haste including the extra tick on Radiance... Really? 1, possibly 2 extra ticks? Meter padding is all that adds up to, because in a raid setting, especially 25man, those 1-2 ticks are so insignificant in effectiveness i'm truly shocked how many of you havnt just dropped it off the list of reasons to stack Haste due to how ridiculous a justification it is.

I've actually stacked Mastery and done heroic fights using said build. I have to say, 22% shields are impressive. I say Mastery is misunderstood for two reasons:

1. Nobody looks at the potential. The difference between a 4k shield and an 11k shield on a tank is just that - Your tank's health drops 7,000 less, putting them in less danger and providing you with that much extra time to get their health up if it drops too low. Heroic Maloriak and Engulfing darkness or Heroic Chim... Heroic Atramedes anyone? How about Magmaw, Cho'gall, and virtually every other raid boss...

2. The bigger picture. Mastery saves mana, not just for you, but anyone healing your target. Holy Light putting up a 1.9k shield(noncrit heal) or 3k+ on a crit is healing you or others on your target dont have to do... At the end of a fight my illuminated healing absorbs, on average, 600,000 damage. Cut that down by just over half for your average non-mastery pally and you get 270,000, meaning i did 330,000 healing without spending the mana on it. 330,000 Is 30 Holy Lights or 13ish Divine Lights for me, non-crit... That's a lot of mana i didnt use, or split between myself and anyone else on my tank.

Get one of your hardcore, always right theorycrafters in here and have them compare the mana preservation of our mastery's absorbs vs. Haste stacking for Holy Light/Divine Light to tell you straight up it's not even close - Mastery wins that one. There's a reason i have ample mana throughout the course of a fight and it isnt because other healers are carrying my weight, so dont even bother spewing that ignorance.

Blizzard's minor tweaks after our mastery was introduced are the only ones it's received because our mastery is not total crap. I would suggest you take an opinion as just that, an opinion. Finding out for yourself is what the game is about, because going to the EJ forums, or here, and playing your character a certain way just because someone else said so means you didnt learn anything for yourself and you're doing it just because someone else said so. I fully expect naysayers to slander, but i'd like to remind everyone that once upon a time the people that said the world was round, and not the center of the universe were ridiculed by those of assumed authority for their ideas... And no, we're not a lot smarter now than we were then, so let's keep an open mind, experiment and see for ourselves.

If mastery stacked with each proc ( at least while targeted player is under 100% health) i could see some benefit in having it.
But seeing how your 11k Shield from DL could get replaced by a 1,2k one from Holy Shock - is just not cool. What can you do in a situation like this? Stop healing? Use your most mana-expensive spells?

[Bostonian]

It's called Illuminated Healing... and shows up under absorption obviously.

Thanks Nillo. I will have to check this out. I might need to update my recount. Thanks again...

[Nillo]

Thanks Nillo. I will have to check this out. I might need to update my recount. Thanks again...

Unless you are still using a patch 4.0.1 or older version of recount then yes it might not be working....

---------- Post added 2011-03-01 at 03:30 PM ----------

If mastery stacked with each proc ( at least while targeted player is under 100% health) i could see some benefit in having it.
But seeing how your 11k Shield from DL could get replaced by a 1,2k one from Holy Shock - is just not cool. What can you do in a situation like this? Stop healing? Use your most mana-expensive spells?

Lesser shields don't replace larger shields... which still doesn't change the fact that it's mostly overheal or running out.

[cncrules45]

Suggestion:

Illuminated Healing: Any healing done by Beacon of Light automatically places a shield on the beacon for 20% of the healing done. Each point in mastery increases this by 2%.

The numbers may off, but this is basically 10% shield, since Beacon only does 50%. This set up encourages active use of Beacons and you can ensure your mastery is worthwhile. Additionally, you could choose what role you wanted to perform, as tank healing gear would be mastery dependant but raid healing would be crit/haste focused, letting you be more versatile. There would need to be a cap to the size of each shield of course, just like priests have, and this shield would have to roll.

[Culexus]

Suggestion:

Illuminated Healing: Any healing done by Beacon of Light automatically places a shield on the beacon for 20% of the healing done. Each point in mastery increases this by 2%.

The numbers may off, but this is basically 10% shield, since Beacon only does 50%. This set up encourages active use of Beacons and you can ensure your mastery is worthwhile. Additionally, you could choose what role you wanted to perform, as tank healing gear would be mastery dependant but raid healing would be crit/haste focused, letting you be more versatile. There would need to be a cap to the size of each shield of course, just like priests have, and this shield would have to roll.

I dont like the idea of making the mastery so limited. It would also cause almost the exact same problems the current mastery provides. Only that it would be much worse. Your idea basically just increases the beacon heal through mastery. I wouldnt even want to trade our current mastery against that to be honest.

Got an idea too. What about making a return of the old holy light glyph through mastery. So basically an aoe heal triggered by holy light in % which is increased by mastery rating. Would make holy light much more useful than it is now (who casts that in raids?) and would give more aoe heal utility. Dont nail me on this but i would like something like this.

[mysteel]

Got an idea too. What about making a return of the old holy light glyph through mastery. So basically an aoe heal triggered by holy light in % which is increased by mastery rating. Would make holy light much more useful than it is now (who casts that in raids?) and would give more aoe heal utility. Dont nail me on this but i would like something like this.

I completly disagree with that statement, as holy light should be cast quite alot in raids as a filler spell, if you can keep stuff up with only holy light and without stressing other healers, you should.
I however had this idea aswell, but i wound't mind our current mastery, if the numbers got changed and it stacked with itself

[Culexus]

I completly disagree with that statement, as holy light should be cast quite alot in raids as a filler spell, if you can keep stuff up with only holy light and without stressing other healers, you should.

Ah i stand corrected ... how did i know someone would jump onto that and completely ignore the point of my post? Jeah you are right ... you use it when theres almost no damage.

[Atris]

[QUOTE=Nillo;10606721]Mastery is shown in recount...[COLOR="red"]
Lets read my post again.

Mastery will not boost your healing done in recount. No reason to even think about it! .

I was talking about healing done tab, not absorption tab. Nobody cares about some fancy absorptions. For certain fights mastery can change things, but it will definetly reduce your hps.

My suggestion to improve our mastery little bit:
Your Illuminated Healing shield last 30 sec longer on target with your Beacon of Light.
or
Your Illuminated Healing duration can be refreshed with Beacon of Light transfered heals.
Just to make sure that your shield is always used

[Culexus]

My suggestion to improve our mastery little bit:
Your Illuminated Healing shield last 30 sec longer on target with your Beacon of Light.
or
Your Illuminated Healing duration can be refreshed with Beacon of Light transfered heals.
Just to make sure that your shield is always used

Most of the time beacon is on a tank. The mastery shield on the main tank is used anyways and there mastery is in fact useful (tank healing). Refreshing the duration or making the duration on the beaconed target longer are therefore pointless and wouldnt make mastery more useful. Its non tank targets that dont get damage in the 8 second duration time frame that make the mastery useless (and why would someone beacon such a target?). In my eyes to make it more useful a total revamp is needed just like the ret mastery.

[mysteel]

Ah i stand corrected ... how did i know someone would jump onto that and completely ignore the point of my post? Jeah you are right ... you use it when theres almost no damage.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-aw...?s=5640&e=6049
19 divine light
68 holy light
All in 1 boss kill of Chimaeron 10H

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-aw...j5g/details/0/ Whole raid
423 divine light
607 holy light
Yeah holy light noone ever cast holy light
/sarcasm off

I was talking about healing done tab, not absorption tab. Nobody cares about some fancy absorptions. For certain fights mastery can change things, but it will definetly reduce your hps.

My suggestion to improve our mastery little bit:
Your Illuminated Healing shield last 30 sec longer on target with your Beacon of Light.
or
Your Illuminated Healing duration can be refreshed with Beacon of Light transfered heals.
Just to make sure that your shield is always used

Our mastery is shown on recount in healing and absorbing

[Culexus]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-aw...?s=5640&e=6049
19 divine light
68 holy light
All in 1 boss kill of Chimaeron 10H

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-aw...j5g/details/0/ Whole raid
423 divine light
607 holy light
Yeah holy light noone ever cast holy light
/sarcasm off

Whats your problem? I already said you are right ... but still you jumped onto this single thing i said and ignored the rest of my post. Infact this would also be more reason for the mastery revamp i suggested. Also you are taking chimaeron for proving you are using alot of holy light? You got to be kidding me. Also the parse for the whole raid shows your holy lights are almost 26% overheal over the whole instance. That leads to the assumption you mainly use it when theres almost no damage going on. Which is okay since its designed for these situations. Im using it there myself. I said that in the post you quoted. So why did you think it is necessary to post these logs again?

[Deleted]

One of the reasons people think Holy Mastery is the worst, or even a bad stat, is they go by what others say without thinking for themselves. I have to ask; how many of you have actually tried stacking Mastery for a raid to see for yourselves? It's clear Mastery is not clearly understood by the majority of the Holy Paladin community, doubly so with the justification of stacking haste including the extra tick on Radiance... Really? 1, possibly 2 extra ticks? Meter padding is all that adds up to, because in a raid setting, especially 25man, those 1-2 ticks are so insignificant in effectiveness i'm truly shocked how many of you havnt just dropped it off the list of reasons to stack Haste due to how ridiculous a justification it is.

I've actually stacked Mastery and done heroic fights using said build. I have to say, 22% shields are impressive. I say Mastery is misunderstood for two reasons:

1. Nobody looks at the potential. The difference between a 4k shield and an 11k shield on a tank is just that - Your tank's health drops 7,000 less, putting them in less danger and providing you with that much extra time to get their health up if it drops too low. Heroic Maloriak and Engulfing darkness or Heroic Chim... Heroic Atramedes anyone? How about Magmaw, Cho'gall, and virtually every other raid boss...

2. The bigger picture. Mastery saves mana, not just for you, but anyone healing your target. Holy Light putting up a 1.9k shield(noncrit heal) or 3k+ on a crit is healing you or others on your target dont have to do... At the end of a fight my illuminated healing absorbs, on average, 600,000 damage. Cut that down by just over half for your average non-mastery pally and you get 270,000, meaning i did 330,000 healing without spending the mana on it. 330,000 Is 30 Holy Lights or 13ish Divine Lights for me, non-crit... That's a lot of mana i didnt use, or split between myself and anyone else on my tank.

Get one of your hardcore, always right theorycrafters in here and have them compare the mana preservation of our mastery's absorbs vs. Haste stacking for Holy Light/Divine Light to tell you straight up it's not even close - Mastery wins that one. There's a reason i have ample mana throughout the course of a fight and it isnt because other healers are carrying my weight, so dont even bother spewing that ignorance.

Blizzard's minor tweaks after our mastery was introduced are the only ones it's received because our mastery is not total crap. I would suggest you take an opinion as just that, an opinion. Finding out for yourself is what the game is about, because going to the EJ forums, or here, and playing your character a certain way just because someone else said so means you didnt learn anything for yourself and you're doing it just because someone else said so. I fully expect naysayers to slander, but i'd like to remind everyone that once upon a time the people that said the world was round, and not the center of the universe were ridiculed by those of assumed authority for their ideas... And no, we're not a lot smarter now than we were then, so let's keep an open mind, experiment and see for ourselves.

Thing is, you should not only look at haste as a way to gain more ticks with HR, but also to cast quicker spells, which is amazing when progressing, especielly on fights like chim, where you need to top players up under feud or just get them to 10,1k hp.
Haste is the best secondary stat to improve our HPS.
Mastery is not bad, but it's worthless on raid ppl when they don't take dmg! Also Beacon, HR, PotI and LoH doesn't get affected på mastery, which makes it even worse!

I don't know what your doing, but to maximize your holy paladin potential, you should be beaconing the tank and then just raid heal, and don't focus on the beaconed tank - let the other healers do that! With that said, where is the mastery going to improve that, since Beacon doesn't give shields?

IMO it's the worse stat we can obtain. And if you want to look at the math who can tell you the exact same thing, head to EJ forums.