The details of HC Chimmy 10

[Valamivan]

Hi guys,
Lots o' threads out there 'bout HC Chimmy but I'm pretty sure we have our strategy worked out quite well and we still keep running into a wall.
We use the standard 2.5 tank method, DK or paladin tanking normal phase with bear and warrior rotating for Feuds and DAs. Our healing team is paladin, h.priest and druid. The issues we're having (some of them we can speculate about, some we cannot). 10man heroic mode.

Issue group no.1. (These are the issues we just can't do anything about. We top the tanks off, they still go down. No explanation whatsoever.)
- Tank dies to the very first DA #1 (topped to 100% hp, bot online): tank takes more damage in 1(!) hit than his healthpool and dies. The weird thing is that he does actually look like he's been crit'd and second, the bot should save him from any hit above 10k. Only hit that should kill the tank is a hit that is 10k> (rest is overkill). Bug in bot? Bug in log?
- Tank dies to the very first DA #2 (topped to 100% hp, bot online): the other version is when he takes more damage than his health but more than one hit. I speculate this is an unfortunate lining up of DA with Caustic Slime - edit: Actually tank took 2x190k hit with DA, that is without Break
- Tank dies to a single hit during Feud, near or precisely at 100% hp, without any stacks of Break: the tank has over 180k hp. When topped off a melee hit should not kill him. Even if he does not use cooldown. Tanks getting crit'd?? (No, it was not a DA, that's always taunted from.) - edit: well I guess if DA can be 2x190k than melee hit can be 190k, too - with Breaks that makes healers sad
- People dying from massacre. People who had above 10k health. I mean tanks who had ~70-80k health
Is there a reason behind these unfortunate events? Did we miss something when studying the mechanics of the encounter and reading up on various tactics? Or are there bugs like this out there? (It wouldn't be the first I hear a tank saw himself getting crit'd despite having the appropriate talents.) Should we ask our tanks to regem/enchant/spec into stamina/health for this fight?

Issue group no.2. we're having is with the healing (this is on attempts we don't suffer the b*tch RNG of the above mentioned problems). I (the paladin healer) am by definition on the DA tank during normal phase, no issues there. When bot goes offline I use one GCD to transfer beacon to the other tank and shoot one of my CDs and then start spamming the tank with FoL hoping he will have enough health when the first melee swing lands. The other tank gets half of that healing through the beacon and a bit from the priest and druid, but they mostly focus on the raid.
But it ain't working.
If I am healing the two tanks alone it is very likely that one of them won't get enough, probably by the time of the second DA during the Feud. If we put one healer on each tank the third healer won't be able to deal with the raid alone. It is also a gamble most of the times whether I can land enough heals on the tank before he takes the first melee swing if I'm using one GCD for the beacon transfer so at least some healing is getting to the other tank.
How do you tackle/assign healing and where do you allocate your cooldowns?

[Deleted]

you need a CD for the fued tank at the start. GS/Pet/Lay On Hands in rotation + his CD, or he will likely fall over. Why can't you just keep your beacon on the DA tank the entire time, the normals tank doesn't need special healing.

[Valamivan]

We have tank A and tank B for Feud and DAs. I do keep beacon on DA tank (tank A) for normal phase but when Feud comes I put beacon on tank B and spam tank A so I actually heal one and a half tank, otherwise tank B would very likely die when the DA comes during Feud as he won't have much health.
And though we have LoH and GS, that will still leave the tank without a cooldown for at least one Feud and that might as well be the first Feud when they don't have Break on 'em.

[rinleezwins]

Every single hc kill we had in our 25man raid, we had to use all the possible combat ressurections/soulstones ...no tanks. When we progressed him we just had enough of how random the fight is.

[Deleted]

Use lay on hands for some of the entries into feud phase. Have your fellow healers use quick heals to get the normal attack tank up on health if no LoH available. E.g. natures swiftness etc.

[Jinto]

I tank this on 10m on my alt DK. Cooldown rotation is Vamp Blood until Double Attack is up then IBF and once IBF fades Bone Shield. Seemed to have worked pretty well.

[Snared]

Sounds like your DA Tank isn't stacking 2 stam trinkets which he should. If you can't survive a 2 full attacks for DA, your tank simply isn't geared enough. Warrior tanks are amazing because they can have Shield Block up for most of them, but if you're another tank you'll probably need to pop a 1min/2min cd for those.

[Memoryz]

Rotate LoH. Use other CDs for first da during feud. If he can't survive a double attack, I'm not sure what to tell you. With CDs the tank shouldn't be dying.

[Valamivan]

I'm getting this "rotate LoH" advice a lot but thing is... you can't. There is ONE LoH per fight. You can't rotate something that you only have one of :P
But don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the replies, nice of you guys.
I started to write together every possible cooldowns we have in the raid (bit late maybe), see what we can swap around, maybe have the bear tank more and the warrior less (I like the bear, seems much easier to heal with all those nice dodges). And I kinda accepted the fact that even if we do everything perfect we can wipe due to the tank taking a 190k hit during Feud or a 2x190k DA, because in no way possible to cover every melee hit with cooldowns in a 10man raid.

[Deleted]

You are not being precise. Which tank is the one dying?

Also, there is absolutely nothing random in this fight. It is not random whether the Break stack tank lives or dies, because obviously the bot is online. It is not random whether during a Feud a Double Attack kills a tank with one stack of Break, because the tank should time a big damage reducing cooldown to just before the Double Attack hits in order to mitigate both the DA and the two subsequent melee hits and he will be able to survive it no questions asked.

Post the relevant parts of your logs.

[Valamivan]

Well for one, the DA tank dies, during normal phase, although he receives the DA at 100% hp and he has no Break stacks. He does not use cooldown for that, as there are too many DA during normal phase and there are too few cooldowns.
Second is usually losing the tank who picks up when entering Feud, again no Break - this is usually due to the 2 second window being too short to top the tank off from 1 to 190k hp. I can heal him maybe 70-90k in before the first hit and if that hit is 190k then even a cooldown won't save him. The two other healers are busy with the raid. Here we can use one LoH on one Feud and DG on the second, but it still leaves at least one Feud without a similar cooldown.

[Zka]

Hi guys,
Lots o' threads out there 'bout HC Chimmy but I'm pretty sure we have our strategy worked out quite well and we still keep running into a wall.

Seeing your nick you're probably hungarian so I link our guild webpage's Chimi topic. See the last pages for hardmode discussion.
If you're low on cooldowns, you should use 3 tanks (2 tank + 1 dpstank).
The most critical DAs are the first one into Feud and the first one after it, these need cooldowns. See the topic for more.

[Valamivan]

Indeed, and thanks, I'll check it out right now.

[Arainie]

First of all, the raidhealing is more than doable by one healer UNTIL feud. While the bot is online only two people are hit by caustic slime and there's 4 seconds until the next massacre/caustic slime hits. Aka, put one healer on the raid and if he doesn't suck terribly he should never fail. I usually do this as a priest (disc mostly for PW:B and PW:S in the last phase) by flash healing the first person and penancing the second. If it's a warlock or holy paladin being hit they most likely won't need healing, if it's a shadow priest either one tick of penance of one glyphed PW:S will keep them up and I can conserve my mana by using a cheap heal on the other victim.

Now, moving on to tank healing. As the only raid healer I am also assigned to helping out on the DA tank. Keep in mind that the DA tank only needs to be healed up in time for the next DA, so you have plenty of time to get him up with hots and cheap heals. If anything leave your beacon on this tank, assigning a full time healer to the DA tank is a horrible waste.

Last but not least we have the feud healing. It is common knowledge that feud happens after a massacre roughly every 20%, so you can anticipate when they're about to happen. To make this fight doable mana wise you need to push him down to around 80% at the second massacre or the feuds will be extremely tightly stacked and your CDs won't really be ready in time. The DA tank from the first phase should taunt the boss and move 35-40 yards away from the raid at the same time, so that when Chimaeron is interrupted he has to run for a second or two before slapping the tank. This gives you at least 5 seconds to get the tank up before he takes any damage at all. Rotate cooldowns so that you always have damage reduction for the coming two double attacks.

The trick with taunting the last break before feud is that the break tank from the first phase will be able to be the second DA tank as soon as the first break has been applied again, removing most of the awkward tank deaths. You can always use a DPS helping out with the tanking but the risk is high that he'll die from a DA, while taunting a break is always safe since the bot is up (provided that the tanks taunt back quickly enough ). Using this tactics we very rarely had a tank death, perhaps once every 6-7 tries, yet our DPS was really lacking and we never got him past 4% due to stacked feuds resulting in healers going OOM among other issues. Hooray for 25 man, I'll never go back to 10 man again!