Vote kick bug?

[Thardus]

Entered a random heroic today and noticed the tank was wearing a few pieces of level 80 gear and some level 78 gear (no idea how they got past the ilvl req) but for some reason neither I nor the healer i joined with were able to initiate a vote kick for anyone in the group. (all the dps were under 6k) We got an error message saying they couldnt be booted for another 2 hours. Is this a bug or just new design?

[Soisoisoi]

Tank was probably doing it for the hell of it, but for a guess you previously booted people, thus not being able to kick anyone else. The item level for tanks doesn't have to be equipped, it was prolly in his bags.

[Thardus]

So booting people in previous heroics affects your ability to boot people future heroics?

[Termak]

The more you kick people the less you can do it, its to stop the whimsical kickers.
If you just kick for good reasons, then you should never face this issue.
Also voting yes for kicks counts just as much as starting the vote.

[Soisoisoi]

So booting people in previous heroics affects your ability to boot people future heroics?

Yes, there is a hidden record of how many people you kick, how often you kick and how many times you've been kicked, even if you don't start the vote, pressing 'Yes' also counts.

The more you kick, the less you can vote kick(adds a timer to other people).
The more you are kicked reduces that said timer on you(so you can be kicked faster).

Since yours said "2 hours", I guess you've been doing some kicking. ;]

[Thardus]

Well that's frustrating, I certainly don't boot people unless its justified.

[Caesium]

I'm not sure if it is a bug or not, but I have seen several comments today from people having the same issue.

[Vindicer]

There's a hidden 'scale' that tips and changes depending on your actions towards other members of your randomly generated LFD groups. By initiating a vote kick, or allowing one to pass, the 'scale' will tip accordingly resulting in a larger penalty or time required before you can initiate a group kick on another player.

By successfully completing dungeons and not leaving groups prematurely, you can tip the 'scale' in the opposite direction, thus enabling you to use your kick votes when it matters most.

..At least; that's what Blizzard would have you believe. I also have these 2h requirements even after multiple successful dungeons without incident.

Either the scales got reset, or they need a bit more grease, because frankly having to wait 2h to remove the level 82 spirit itemised mail healer gear worn by the Ret Paladin in my daily Heroic, is not something I enjoy dedicating a small percentage of my pay check towards.

-Vin-

[Tanksenior]

Well that's frustrating, I certainly don't boot people unless its justified.

I agree. there are a lot of people that sadly require kicks, mainly skill wise but a lot of times they are just trolling around and wasting everbody's time. /sadface.

[Worshaka]

Well that's frustrating, I certainly don't boot people unless its justified.

I doubt that, you mention that you wanted to kick dps because they were doing under 6k... sure 6k aint great and in a utopian world that wouldn't occur but you hardly need to kick them. So your dungeon takes an extra 5 mins to complete, so what... unless they are consistently adding or breaking CC or generally doing something to cause wipes you don't need to kick low dps. The whole elitist attitude that if you don't pull your weight to some arbitary measure you've created is plain wrong.

I do plenty of random heroics now and I get plenty of 6k dps members and funnily enough I've never failed in clearing a dungeon to date. Part of that is I heal my random heroics even though my main spec is shadow but I take the attitude that I'd rather get the thing done then start worrying what other people's gear is like and deciding whether they deserve to have a place in the group.

As for your question about how the tank got in... You just need to have an average of 329 iLvl in your possession, that doesn't mean equipped. You can purchase all the loot you like (that you may not necessarily be able to equip) and keep it in your bags to raise your average iLvl. I've done it on all of my alts because the iLvl requirement is unnecessary if you can actually play the game a bit. They should actually remove this requirement for any sort of guild/preform group. I agree it's there to help pugs but it has no place in preventing preform groups.

[Thardus]

I doubt that, you mention that you wanted to kick dps because they were doing under 6k... sure 6k aint great and in a utopian world that wouldn't occur but you hardly need to kick them. So your dungeon takes an extra 5 mins to complete, so what... unless they are consistently adding or breaking CC or generally doing something to cause wipes you don't need to kick low dps. The whole elitist attitude that if you don't pull your weight to some arbitary measure you've created is plain wrong.

I do plenty of random heroics now and I get plenty of 6k dps members and funnily enough I've never failed in clearing a dungeon to date. Part of that is I heal my random heroics even though my main spec is shadow but I take the attitude that I'd rather get the thing done then start worrying what other people's gear is like and deciding whether they deserve to have a place in the group.

As for your question about how the tank got in... You just need to have an average of 329 iLvl in your possession, that doesn't mean equipped. You can purchase all the loot you like (that you may not necessarily be able to equip) and keep it in your bags to raise your average iLvl. I've done it on all of my alts because the iLvl requirement is unnecessary if you can actually play the game a bit. They should actually remove this requirement for any sort of guild/preform group. I agree it's there to help pugs but it has no place in preventing preform groups.

Actually I had no interest in kicking the dps, It was the tank that we wanted to boot. I generally don't care about item level, but he was very hard to keep alive from what my healer was saying, and was pulling groups without bothering to CC, which made things worse.

[Azragarn]

I have never started a boot before and last vote kick i was involved in was over a week ago (been away from game) and i got the same message last night when trying to kick a tank in dps gear and spec and refusing to change or leave. (he was also pulling the boss then leaving the room to try and get us killed)

[Sykol]

I like how Blizz penalizes people for booting others, especially considering how bad most players in this game are. So it basically becomes a game of how much you're willing to put up with a bad player until you use that precious vote kick option, which more or less negates the purpose of having a vote kick in the first place.

And yes, I know they put it in there to keep jerks from randomly initiating kicks all willy-nilly, but it also gives those same jerks on the opposite end free reign to play as poorly or dickishly as they choose because they know a lot of people aren't going to waste their kick on them. It's a catch-22.

[baelon]

The more you kick people the less you can do it, its to stop the whimsical kickers.
If you just kick for good reasons, then you should never face this issue.
Also voting yes for kicks counts just as much as starting the vote.

Sorry but I only kick for good reasons and I get this too, 2 hours. It started at 45 minutes and got worse. I'm not some elitist who insists everyone does 20k dps. It's just that too many players are too uncognizant of basic mechanics to be doing heroics. The effects of their badness on the group are anything from a 3-hour wipefest, to simply making an encounter impossible if it relies on their role doing something important (Corla, Ozruk, etc.).

They belong in normal modes, but Blizzard's position is "They pay us $15/month, so they can queue for anything and you have to deal with it. If you don't have 3 hours to waste on wiping and try to kick our valued customers, you're wrong. Because we're not rich enough." It's enough to make me vomit. In EQ if these people didn't like it, they were free to gtfo. That was the devs' position, and it made for a great playerbase.

[Merin]

The vote kick system needs to reset over time. I kicked folks at the start of the expansion (but not even that often), where you simply could not drag baddies through. Now, I haven't kicked anyone in literally about two months, but get a 2 hour warning when I try to remove someone who is trying to AFK grief the group.

Votekick should start at five minutes, and double in cooldown for every person participating in the vote each use. 24 hour after the last kick reset. There should also be an option for a standard votekick and a votekick with a GM report attached for kicking for harrasment/griefing related reasons.

Should be a feedback system, as well, players with positive feedback can return to the front of the queue, negative removed from it entirely when kicked.

[evan_s]

As others have said it is just the vote kick system. As far as I can tell from my experience and from what I've read in blue posts it is:

1) Based on the person trying to initiate the kick.
2) Considers your history including how often you've voted to kick someone and how often you've abandoned the group.

They recently added somethings to make it harder to abuse by requiring 4 votes to kick someone if you join with a group of 3 or 4 people together and to allow you to vote kick people who are not in the dungeon or are disconnected regardless of other factors.

Ultimately, what people need to remember is that no system is perfect and there are always going to issues with any system. They can and should continue making changes like they did but they always need to try to carefully balance the ability to use the system as designed, eg kick people who can't or won't fulfill their role in the group or are just being completely abusive, and prevent abuse like a group of guildies kicking people for fun or people kicking anyone who isn't doing 15k dps.

If you are at 2 hours to kick someone then your statics must be pretty bad so you are either vote-kiting people pretty liberally, just having horrible luck and running into a lot of really bad players or dropping a lot of groups. I'd guess that a combination or 1 and 2 got the vote kick timer some what high and then 3 started becoming more common as you could no longer kick the people you wanted so dropped the groups.


---------- Post added 2011-02-28 at 08:22 PM ----------

24 hour after the last kick reset. There should also be an option for a standard votekick and a votekick with a GM report attached for kicking for harrasment/griefing related reasons.

24 hours is far too short a history. 1 day not logging in or running a random df group and the biggest jerk/abuser of vote kicks is reset back to nothing? No way.

A vote kick with a report would be just as open to abuse as a vote kick and would be abused if it was treated any different. No reason to tie vote-kicking to reporting. It's easy enough to report someone who is being abusive separately from vote kicking them.

Should be a feedback system, as well, players with positive feedback can return to the front of the queue, negative removed from it entirely when kicked.

Would just be another imperfect system to be abused and gamed by players.