[Suggestion] Loot system

[mysteel]

(This was posted aswell on offical EU forum Here)
I think I speak for everyone when I say, we have all been involved in "ninja looting" or "scamming" in raids or 5 mans, and i wish for that to stop and I come with a suggestion of changing how the loot system works in such a way that it minimize the possiblity for people to ninja Bind on Equipt items, as they are the majority of items being ninjaed for gold.

The way the current system works in the diffrent instances or 5 mans are following.

Group loot: This in itself is working alright, mostly used with trustworthy people in a 5 man you put together on your own server, not many ninja's going on here, however, it is still possible, not much to do about it if the group chooses to use this loot system.

Masterloot: As it has been stated many times, this loot system was never made for random pugs in 5, 10 or 25 man as you put the trust of every item upon one person, which in many cases people become greedy and "ninja" an item to sell it on AH or just a Bind on Pickup item for him/herself or a friend. As this system was never made for using with random people, it should never be used in pugs, and if you do join a pug where the leader is using masterloot, do not trust the person, and make him say the rules of loot before you pull. If you feel you cannot trust the person, simply leave the group. It is a known fact that GMs cannot help you if the loot rules are not estabilished before hand.
However though, this system seems to be the most (if not only) to be used in pugs, due to the fact that the other systems are just as unfair as this, and that is what i wish to change.

Need before greed: This system only lets people who have the same armor type of the item need on it, which in itself is a good thing, most of the time, however, when a bind on equipped item drops, it will only be the people who can wear the item that can roll need on it, and it stays bind on equipped, while some people when they see an item they can need on and sell it on Auction House, they become greedy and need on it, while no one else in the group able to need on it. This is the main issue with this loot system that can be exploited.

My idea of loot system is the following:

Group loot: Keep this as it is as it is fair enough, anyone can need on an item but should still only be used with people you can trust.

Masterloot: Keep this as it is, but it should not be used in pugs or 5 mans, because of the fact that if you do not trust the person that is masterlooter, he can basicly ninja loot you without GMs being able to do anything about it.

Need before Greed: Here comes the great change. This loot system should keep the say basic, you can only "need" on an item that is the same armor type as you, since that in itself makes it rather fair and hard to ninja loot, however it could be changed so that you can only need on the actual spec you are wearing (holy paladin cannot need on plate with strenght or any defense stats), to eliminate the ninja looting like that, however, that is not the main issue with this system i want changed.
Bind on equipped items, should remain only needable for people of the same armor type and stats of your current spec. ALTHOUGH when you click need on this Bind on equipped item, you get a popup if you want this item bound to you, and if you win this item, it should be bound to you so you cannot sell the item afterwards. If you click greed on the item, it remains bind on equipped if you win it, as no one in the group currently needs it.

For all of this to change people would have to start using Need before Greed in raids and random 5 man where you cannot trust the people you group with, as it was also the purpose of this loot system, but at it's current state it is just not fair enough and very exploid able.

If anyone have any other suggestions, how to change the current loot system please feel free to comment with your suggestion, or if you feel that what i want changed is not fair.

[Capt Bob]

You can never kill ninja looting, how hard you try. @ your suggestion for need before greed: Sure, it would work, in a small manner. But there's always those that are over geared, sees a epic drop and oh, wait, i can accually need on it and i'm the only one.

[mysteel]

It would still eleminate the people who do it to sell if on auction house rather than just being stupid and mean - those you can never really get rid of

[Vladinator]

The NBG change would also ruin many runs as those that can tank won't because they want to get healer gear... but since they will be performing tanking role they will not be eligible to need on the healer plate. Id's say simply redesign the NBG like "version 2" that Blizzard scans your 2 specs and makes sure you got the item level enough to need on something (so you don't get paladins with avg item level on their healer set at 240, but you do allow them to need on their side spec by making sure they meet the minimum requirements (or at least minimum-10 ilvl or something).

This way you can only need on things you can use and will benefit you (perhaps even add a check so items clearly downgrading you are blocked from being need on), the items you definitely can't use by lack of spec, lack of gear on your side spec, and so forth. Still what the person does with that item is up to them, sell on AH or use.

As far as I know, all trash farm groups use group loot and simply need on all BOE items (if a BOP drops then let's hope your pug members respect that and pass stuff they can't use :P) hehe.

[Deleted]

Id's say simply redesign the NBG like "version 2" that Blizzard scans your 2 specs and makes sure you got the item level enough to need on something (so you don't get paladins with avg item level on their healer set at 240, but you do allow them to need on their side spec by making sure they meet the minimum requirements (or at least minimum-10 ilvl or something).

So a Paladin running as Prot/Holy can't pick up Ret gear which might be his "actual" OS? I remember PuGs running by the jig that any spec you aren't running as is "OS". Oh, and what about if I'm Bear/Moonkin at the moment, I couldn't roll on Unheeded Warning? How would it distinguish between Bear and Cat, since you can spec into the other's talents as either of them. Oh, and what if you're e.g. 11-15 iLvls off your arbitrary limit, that is to say you could do the job fluently and smoothly if you would run as said OS, but the system fucks you over?


Basically, you can't mechanically fix human greed. If someone is going to ruin your run with "taking what isn't theirs by right", why are they in your run? Cataclysm has done a fair job at killing actual boss-downing PuGs anyway, and the trash farming runs like you say just zerg-Need on everything.

Here's to the continued death of the completely blindingly random PuG.

[mysteel]

The whole purpose of my suggestion wasn't to not make ppl able to need on offspec items, as it is not the majority of ninjaing at that area. The purpose of the fix was to make BOE items become bound when needed on, so that people with a greedy mind cannot need on them, to sell them on AH (which you cant deny is happning alot)

[A J Rimmer]

Yeah binding if you need is a good idea IMO. Post it on the official suggestion forums, you never know =)

I'd just make that part of the standard pug loot system.

The other stuff is tricky cos sometimes you do 'need' on an offspec item (if no one wants it main spec) cos everyone else clicks Disenchant automatically if it's available.

[Myzou]

I'd stop running instances as tank on my warrior, druid, and paladin if I couldn't roll on DPS gear when the main DPS don't need it. Same with healing on my shaman and priest.

[mysteel]

(This was posted aswell on offical EU forum Here)

I did post it on official forum, however it go moved from support (where i had hoped it would get a blue respond)

[KnickKnack]

The problem with the "if you need a boe it binds to you" method, Enchanters will still need on it, DE it, and sell the crystal for 3k.

Nice loophole, eh??

[vaniteux]

God, this would kill the economy extensively.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

We've all tried, we've fought the good fight and failed. Ninja looting runs rampant because there is no control from Blizz. And rightfully so.

They want you to play with friends and guildies. LFGT and pugs are what ruins the social aspect of the game.

[TheyCallMeTarzan]

Your idea with "Need makes it BoP" is good. That could be used and would completely prevent players with no respect for anyone but themselves from exploiting the situation.

The rest of your idea is not good. Imagine a tank or DPS that has a healing off spec. A healing piece drops, but he cannot roll need. Instead the healer who does not need it is the only one who can roll need, and he needs a little extra gold. No one makes a big profit, but the item desired a lot by one player is vendored out of existence.

But I really support the Need = BoP idea.

---------- Post added 2011-02-28 at 04:15 PM ----------

The problem with the "if you need a boe it binds to you" method, Enchanters will still need on it, DE it, and sell the crystal for 3k.

Nice loophole, eh??

That's a temporary issue. Maelstrom crystals are only that expensive because there are so relatively few of them. With patch 4.1 the price will really start to drop and from that point on it will only be cheaper. It was the same with Nexus Crystals, Void Crystals and Abyss Crystals.

[AverageJoe42]

The problem with the "if you need a boe it binds to you" method, Enchanters will still need on it, DE it, and sell the crystal for 3k.

Nice loophole, eh??

Enchanting issues aside, NEED = BoP makes that 30k g robe they were going to whore on the AH now only vendor for 13g. I approve of this.

[mysteel]

Your idea with "Need makes it BoP" is good. That could be used and would completely prevent players with no respect for anyone but themselves from exploiting the situation.

The rest of your idea is not good. Imagine a tank or DPS that has a healing off spec. A healing piece drops, but he cannot roll need. Instead the healer who does not need it is the only one who can roll need, and he needs a little extra gold. No one makes a big profit, but the item desired a lot by one player is vendored out of existence.

But I really support the Need = BoP idea.

---------- Post added 2011-02-28 at 04:15 PM ----------



That's a temporary issue. Maelstrom crystals are only that expensive because there are so relatively few of them. With patch 4.1 the price will really start to drop and from that point on it will only be cheaper. It was the same with Nexus Crystals, Void Crystals and Abyss Crystals.

The main suggestion of my idea was not the offspec items, it was just a minor idea for something like that not to be ninjaed, but in reality (lol game) that is not possible, the main idea was to make Boe items Bop on need when using Need before Greed

[Vladinator]

So a Paladin running as Prot/Holy can't pick up Ret gear which might be his "actual" OS?

Exactly. He should then be serious and put Ret on one of his talents to be eligible for the loot. (Unless the formula, and I hope, checks inventory if the person has gear for the spec the item dropped is designed for, and is an upgrade -at least not worse than already owned item.) I wouldn't mind and I think most wouldn't mind either as all would be in the same boat. Having Ret on the side shows that you are dedicated to actually use the tree, not just PUG and get Ret gear because you plan sometime in the future to swap one of the specs to Ret.

My point was that there can be implemented formulas to at least figure out if you really need that item or if you just want it to "be a jerk". It's not too hard in most cases, of course there are the odd cases but then Blizzard could make it show some faith in the people and let them Need if they really must I guess.

It's not perfect but beats the NBG as it is right now. It can be better with work put into the background mechanics in the decision making if a player should be able to Need when NBGv2 is turned on in the party. It's the most realistical solution to the current NBG issue.

I only put some numbers as example, every idea can be polished, tested, altered, so forth until it satisfies the developer and it produces the most proper results. If my tiny example was made into a loot system I would rage myself, it's far from detailed enough to be NBGv2.

[Deathmaw]

While I do agree with the whole "bind on need" aspect, I do not agree with the idea of having need on your spec only. There are too many variables to take into account, not to mention the number of people doing runs in order to get OS gear.

[mysteel]

You could address it in diffrent ways, since it is not a problem getting the offspec item, rahter that people get the offsepc item over someone who wants it for main spec, simply because they are greedy or just jerks.

This could "fixed" in various of ways. You could as i said have only your current spec able to click need, while this would make it hard to gather offspec items. A way to fix this would be if no one else needs on the item and you are the last one to roll for it, you can press need as an offspec item. This would eliminate ppl taking offspec item over someone's mainspec item. Though if someone is a jerk, he could in theory just wait till the end of the roll for the item, these kind of people will always find some way to piss off others.

The main idea of this thread was not to fix mainspec over offspec but for the BOE items beeing needed from people purely to sell them on AH abusing the fact they are the only one who can roll need on the item.

[LoLHellcy]

Its simply really, they need to make 4 buttons; Need, Need for Offspec, Greed, Disenchant.
THEN base it off armor, well sorta

So to need, the Holy paladin would have to have been holy during the fight, and it would need spirit and/or int, and cannot have hit
Need offspec: it can have STR, defensive stats and be plate: OR could be healing cloth / leather / mail,
greed and DE work as currently do

there, everyone's happy.


and hitting Need or Need for Offspec would bind a BoE item to that character.... so yea, bye bye ninjas

[mysteel]

Its simply really, they need to make 4 buttons; Need, Need for Offspec, Greed, Disenchant.
THEN base it off armor, well sorta

So to need, the Holy paladin would have to have been holy during the fight, and it would need spirit and/or int, and cannot have hit
Need offspec: it can have STR, defensive stats and be plate: OR could be healing cloth / leather / mail,
greed and DE work as currently do

there, everyone's happy.


and hitting Need or Need for Offspec would bind a BoE item to that character.... so yea, bye bye ninjas

This seems like a good solution honestly.