Tanking; right as a player or elitism

[Dambala]

Neither was yours, so we'll call it even.

Lmfao my arguement is that we should just all be cool to each other. Thats not valid?

[Spectral]

I think you're usually better off just carrying them, but to each their own.

I do tend to tell people that they're bad if they don't outdamage me on bosses while I'm tanking. I keep on carrying them, but it makes me feel a bit better about carrying them to be a bit of a jerk. They still make out well.

[thedankson]

Every player, or every role and every class, has the right to leave a group if they want to. It's a game and if they don't want to finish the run they don't have to. It can be annoying if you're on the wrong end, but it's part of using LFD. Tanks obviously suffer the least from dropping group but that shouldn't affect their right to drop. My main is dps for Cata and was a healer for Vanilla/TBC. My most-played [still about 1/10 the time as my Priest] alt for Cata is a tank.

Also, if everyone that complained about elitist tanks re-rolled to a tank there would no longer be a tank shortage

[Deleted]

Yes, you have every right to leave. Yes, this make you a thoughtless jerk.

As a tank, I find that I'm usually able to pull most of the weight of a bad group in the current dungeons(some exceptions). However, if you try to explain properly the mechanics of a fight(or trash pack?), it'll go a lot smoother. If one person refuses to adjust after a few wipes, you can initiate a kick. Only if said person absolutely refuses to listen to reason when it comes to boss tactics, not because the person is doing minimal dps.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Lmfao my arguement is that we should just all be cool to each other. Thats not valid?

.... Damn you, you got me. D:

I assumed you were the person I quoted before and didn't look at the name. Whoops.

Well, your argument that it wasn't a valid argument because the numbers were different was invalid because, well, it's stupid to say "go do ___ role because you're not happy with the way I do it." Not only will it not matter because you're no longer in the same group, it solves nothing. Which also goes to the person I quoted before.

And your argument that we should all just be cool to each other, while nice in theory, will never happen. XD

[Dambala]

.... Damn you, you got me. D:

I assumed you were the person I quoted before and didn't look at the name. Whoops.

Well, your argument that it wasn't a valid argument because the numbers were different was invalid because, well, it's stupid to say "go do ___ role because you're not happy with the way I do it." Not only will it not matter because you're no longer in the same group, it solves nothing. Which also goes to the person I quoted before.

And your argument that we should all just be cool to each other, while nice in theory, will never happen. XD

IF Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan can travel thru time in a phone booth and assemble the greatest set of leaders in history for a presentation, then we can all be cool to each other.

And also, I wish there were more tanks, my enh shammy needs some much needed lovin', but 45 min queues are the pits, so I just play my protadin now.

TLDR - More tanks, more coolness.

Excellent.

[Shamslam]

Meh, I have no problem with tanks leaving. I'm a DPS and I'll leave after 2 or 3 wipes. Heroics aren't hard in any way shape or form now. If the group is so bad that they are wiping on trash or failing to everything the boss does, I'm not gonna sit around. I don't expect a tank or healer to do it either.

Some tanks just are very elitist when they really, really suck. We had one guy who refused to mark, refused to CC, but would throw up a bitch fit like none other if anyone pulled aggro. We finally said, "Hey, we're attacking your target, nothing we can do about it." He starts marking. We decide to wait 10 seconds and proceed to pull skull off of him 5 seconds later. He says more obscenities than I thought was possible in a single chat line and leaves group.

Leaving isn't elitist, every one is entitled to that. It's how you behave that makes you elitist.

[Bothenheim]

The act of leaving the group in itself isn't elitist, it's the way you behave yourself before the leave that does. If you stick around and try to help, bu get fed up with it, then it's no fault of your own. If you wipe on a trash pull, rage at everyone and leave, then you're an asshole.

However, sticking with it does have its limits. There's no point in sticking around if no-one is listening to your suggestions. I also am not seeing the point of explaining each and every encounter to the group you're with. It's up to everyone, not just the tank, to know what's going on in boss fights and on pulls. The tank should be able to specify points that the group is fuzzy on, but shouldn't be asked to explain every mechanic. Doing so is not only time-consuming and aggravating, but leads the party member in question to expect that from each and every tank down the line, which just isn't fair.

But that's my two-cents.

[WReck]

This is my view on it. If you do your job and are not a troll your tank wont bail on you. If you think trolling is amazing or can't do whast needed to kill a boss then you do not deserve to run and your tank should bail instead of pain 100+ gold in repairs so YOU can get upgrades.

[MiseriaScH]

I chose to play tank for a few specific reason;

It's fun
All my friends play dps or healers
Fast queues

I didn't become a tank to babysit people through heroics, if they are having that hard of a time with the mechanics or hardly pushing 5-6k DPS then they should go back normals learn what to do and how to avoid it. I tanked my way from sub300 iLvL to 333 with just normals not wanting to waste the DPS/Healers time on a badly/poorly geared tank.

If they cannot do the same I'll drop group after a few wipes, Stonecore Ozuark, lol all DPS and healer dead after first shatter, 2 of them being ranged dps.. ok a few more tried exlaining things they don't get it bye, I'll take the deserter debuff and do Arch, or farm on an alt.

*Sarcasm on*
You DPS have it lucky, you can do stuff inbetween your 30-45 minute queues, I can hardly go form the AH to the mailbox before it pops up! Then it gets in the way of being able to check my mail so I decline the invite then after checking my mail I requeue. *Sarcasm off*

Before you go all 'AMG ELITIST!' I'm 346 geared exactly now with only rep. epics and I'm still missing the boots. I just did my first BH, I have no desire to raid at the current moment since my WotLK guild imploded on itself (awesome story involving several bans, account thefts, two people selling their account and numerous people server transferring). I know my class and numerous other classes, if people can't be bothered to learn mechanics, fights, or their own class I'm not going to babysit them, besides if I leave the group another tank will take my place in about 3-8 minutes, so pe patient.

[Deleted]

The thing I've noticed tho is those tanks that messes up big time, blame the grp and leave.
Or tank that think they can do everything, charge on a boss and got no clue of the boss.
Tanks that mark up, charge in and screams that no one CC'd,
when the 2 dps with CC died on last boss and are running because no one rezzed them..
Or he uses aoe threat skills when someone tries to CC a mob he pulled to him.
Tanks that only look at themselves and don't try and see what's going on.
That's the arrogance that most ppl are complaining about.

[zerostar]

You seem like a very reasonable tank. If the group you're with is just simply full of stupid and ignorant players you have a right to leave after a time or kick the most idiotic of them. I've dps'd in groups where I've been able to just explain the fight to people(tanks, dps, and heals) who've never done it and we may wipe once or twice before they get it all sunk in but they listen and get it down. I've also kicked dps, tanks, and heals who are to stupid to listen to what I'm saying. If I ask a tank, or anyone in the group really, if he/she has ever been to this dungeon before and they go "screw you! i'm the tank, i know what i'm doing STFU noob" or something along those lines, well i'm going to get very frustrated after we wipe 3+ times. They clearly know nothing about the fight and don't want to take suggestions or listen to those of us who have done the fight before. Then they blame the others in the group, who's gameplay/gear may not be ideal but well in the criteria needed to do the dungeon, call everyone names, cry like a child and leave.

That's the stuff I'm seeing more and more in dungeons and is what people are talking about, and it's not just the tanks having this problem. The dungeon finder is ruined for me because literally every time I've used it I end up with a group that takes 10+ wipes, 3 tanks, 2 healers, and 3 dps to finish a dungeon. Afterwards I swear to myself I won't ever use it again but I always do because when my guild tank/heals isn't on I just grit my teeth and do it. It's a painful awful experience. I wait 40+ minutes for my queue to pop and then I have to spend 2 hours dealing with a group of half idiots and half decent people. While the decent people get fed up and leave and we rotate out tanks and such. I've stopped doing dungeons for the most part because the cost/effort isn't worth it.

It's not just the tanks that have to babysit morons. It really is whoever the most competent player is in the group. As a dps I've had to mark, and explain what the marks mean. (pardon, but it pisses me off to have to tell a mage what moon means) I've had good groups where only one person had no idea what they were doing but those are very few and very far between. We're all pissed that some players just can't grasp simple concepts and mechanics or don't want them explained to them at all. The rules of dps are simple: kill adds and stay out of shit on the ground. Tanks should know enough about tanking to hear "this mechanic does this" and formulate about how to go about dealing with it. Healers as well. Some people are just stupid players, bad players can learn and improve, idiots refuse to listen and will never improve. Unfortunately, being an idiot and causing wipes after things have been explained to you 7 times is not a reportable offense.

[Yeran]

How is the card game methapor valid at all? There we see some guys spending time to set something up and one guy just joins with way less effort, leaving after some time and ruining everything. Thats pretty bad I agree. Buts thats nowhere near the stuff we are talking about.
As in WoW you don't 'set up' a heroic, the engine does it. The other four members did nothing but clicking a button to join and there is nothing to clean up, thats another button press. The closest thing to that stuff would be preparation and don't tell me the group was prepared for a dungeon if they can't manage to do it. Also unlike in the card game nothing is ruined with someone leaving in between as there is no penality at all for some player being switched with another, you can just keep on going. Its not like only tanks leave running dungeons, its more about the fact you need to wait the longest to get another one, but thats hardly the fault of those who actually tank.

So the question is if you call it elitism if someone wants to run with players who at least try to avoid stuff that makes playing with them work instead of fun? I think every player has the same right to leave if he's not feeling like having fun (which includes tanks), thats why you can refill your group with the dungeon tool. If not for that option I wouldn't even consider running LFG heroics, as I will often meet groups of players where kicking one of them is not possible. To me its entirely unreasonable to stay with those groups where the guys obviously couldn't care less about their performance and the run will take like 2hrs to finish. I will just join another group without caring at all about my role. I can see how some people would disagree with that way of thinking ofc. Still its a game and if its not fun I'm out. Sorry guys, I don't feel like being an unpaid entertainer.

I wouldn't be suprised if a bunch of the tanks still feeling bad about leaving a group no matter what stopped playing WoW alltogether, as its just 'not fun' anymore or something like that.

[Deleted]

I'm leveling a prot war and I perform the same test on him as I do on my healer:

If the group doesn't come up to scratch* before first boss, I'll kill the boss then (if it's not bugged) add the especially poor players to my ignore list, drop, then re-queue.

I used to offer a polite explanation as to why I was leaving, e.g. "healer isn't healing me and I'm only staying alive via first-aid, pots and victory rush" etc, but even this irked people enough for them to create lvl 1 toons on my server and whisper me insults.

So now I just leave group without a word and re-queue in the hope I'll get a better group next time.

It is NOT elitist to protect my time or my enjoyment by leaving groups that have no hope of succeeding or that are so bad as to cause me stress while playing. I certainly don't pay for the game to be stressed out.

*By up to scratch I mean: are not pricks, know their roles, don't stand in the fire, don't pull unnecessarily, don't ninja, don't afk constantly, etc

[Boldun]

[QUOTE=Dambala;10598192Why dont we all just be cool to each other like the Wyld Stallyns?[/QUOTE]

Not to be picky, but when i watched the movie the line was "Be Exellent to each other"

And on the flip side, a lot of "Tanks" get carried becuase they don't know the fights, don't use CC, Don't wait for Healers and Casters to get manna, Etc. And then they will blame everyone else for their fails. Many of this Type only que as Tanks to get the insta-que despite the fact that they don't have the Gear or Skill to tank. IMO it isn't "elitist" to leave is after multiple tries, it becomes obvious that the group is not going to be able to move on, however just leaving after one wipe or simply becuase you don't like the gear of one player is very much so.

[Sunseeker]

It depends honestly. Some runs, I get the most idiotic people ever, and I absolutely cannot tolerate them, so I quit. But a dungeon is group content, not a game of follow the leader. Sometimes people are helping others learn, and sometimes people are there on their own to learn, but the best way to learn is when people help them, hence: group content.

I think it's the right of every player to quit a group that they feel isn't succeeding to the degree they'd like. I do think it's the responsibility of every player to give every group a chance. And I do think it's elitist for a tank, or a healer, to unilaterally attempt to be in charge of a group.

[Frolk]

If the group is bad, i just cba to nag on em, id rather leave group and take my 30min debuff and watch some TV than wipe for 30min or more, if this is elitism, then i dont mind, im a elitist when not tanking also. I used to be helpful and explain stuff like "spamming renew aint good", but seems like ppl dont want advices that makes me look bad, so i stopped giving em.

[ajanu]

The only group I have ever left that did not fall apart I left because the healer told me I couldn't tank and refused to heal me. Not because I sucked (though I'm by no means awesome), because I am a druid. Unless someone is being a total ass like that guy, I will stick it out. Your $, play as you want, but honestly stuff is so face-roll easy these days (as far I have have gone, 70ish) that a little challenge keeps stuff interesting.

[Cyphran]

I'm an elitist tank... the common compliments I get, and the comparisons to other tanks I hear make me so.

If people prove to me that they are polite and capable, I'll drag em through hell and highwater to finish an instance. But ignore my explanations, or play poorly, and you're either being votekicked, or I'll eat the deserter... I have no queues.

[badrobot]

this isnt about you the tank..i pug heroics all the time...believe me when i tell you best case scenario is gb @ the last boss someones had to go as i join so i can grab the vp in 3 mins and leave

however

sometimes theres groups of new people altogether or groups of capable dps and the tank is new to the content..

you can do things like.... trap the purple trog and advise the tank to pull it over to the boss before it dies .they get an achieve

i make it a point to never leave the dungeon ..most times a really non capable group will drop group first

that'll leave sometimes ...just two dps......then bingo suddenly you have three more people that obviously know the content..
and u finish up np's at all

actually for a friend thats needing "faster" and "sun of a" in halls..making a pug tanks grab all the snakes on the first boss is fun..and they like the tips if they dont already do it that way....the other two achieves are bit hard to do in a pug..but then occaisionally you get awesome pugs as well where all the dps is high