General Frost Help

[Deleted]

Pretty much what the topic says. With the changes in 4.1 frost looks really appealing, and I think I would enjoy playing it more - so I'm giving it a shot. I got this information from somewhere a while ago (hope its not just outdated PVE), so I was wondering if it still applies for pvp

Hit cap 8%
exp cap of 26
haste rating > mastery > str > crit
Reforge haste

Plague strike > HB > Blood strike for death runes (until 4.1) > Frost strike

When do I oblit? General openers against target? What should I generally be doing against casters? Against melee?

[rockallnite]

I don't know much about PvP, so I'm not gonna help you there.

But as far as the info you got goes for PvE, Plague Strike and HB can be substituted with Outbreak, which should be followed by as many Oblits as you can possibly can do. Then Frost Strike to burn RP when you've built up a large amount.

[Deleted]

Oh. Sounds like a three button class

[Deleted]

If you are refering to pvp dks are no way a 3 button class. If u dont use chains,silence,mind freeze,ghoul(yes its good for ANY spec) and the rest of the utility u got, u will lose in any pvp match. Learn your class, if u dont u cant pvp.
Hit and expertise caps dont apply for any class in pvp. You need hit only as a warrior. DK pvp hit cap is at 2-3% if i am not wrong.

[Graviton]

Going to go ahead and point you to this thread OP, it's chock full of great DK information.
arenajunkies (dot) com/topic/191453-dk-basics/

[AetherMcLoud]

PVP Hitcap is 5% btw.

[rockallnite]

Not even in PvE are Frost DKs a 3-button class. Obviously I was just giving a very rough idea of what the beginning of a priority rotation looks like.
Along with Outbreak, Oblit and Frost Strike, you have to manage Pillar of Frost uptime, Rime procs with HB, and use Blood Pact and Empower Rune Weapon in the best possible situations.
(Actually Blood Pact might become a thing of the past once we get permanent Death Runes)

[Deleted]

Doesnt blood pact refresh the cd of a rune when used? If so it will still be usefull. (i got no idea how it will work since we wont have blood runes anymore...)

[Silarn]

I assume you mean Blood Tap? The BotN change does eliminate the usefulness of the old bug where you could BS and convert one rune, then BT, convert the remaining blood rune and simultaneously refresh the previously spent rune (giving you two charged death runes instead of simply recharging and converting one rune).

However, BT is still highly functional at supplying an on-demand death rune when you need one (and don't have one). And since you can be pretty much assured that any single rune you have up will always pair well with a death rune, there is really never a bad time to use it (unless you have no runes charged and nothing necessary to use it on, like refreshing Blood Plague).

---

For PvP, as stated 5% hit is all you really need. On the other hand, people will have varying amounts of parry and dodge, and if someone has more than a handful of it they will likely have much more than 6.5%. A small amount of expertise will probably help you hit a bit more, but you're going to see a huge swing of barely needing any to needing a massive amount to eliminate dodges/parries altogether -- not counting cooldowns that temporarily boost these chances by a massive amount.

I'm not sure if it has changed since wrath, but since either DK spec has not a small amount of spell damage, getting a handful of spell pen is also considered ideal. (Or at least it was. I'm really not current on PvP gearing.)

There are also plenty of glyph choices that have much more utility in PvP than they do in PvE, and thus become viable options to look at.

It is well worth carrying alternate weapons with different runeforges for different situations. There is really a lot to think about for PvP, and you can only use established PvE info as a rough starting point.

[Deleted]

Yep i meant blood tap thnx for the correction =)

[Deleted]

I assume you mean Blood Tap? The BotN change does eliminate the usefulness of the old bug where you could BS and convert one rune, then BT, convert the remaining blood rune and simultaneously refresh the previously spent rune (giving you two charged death runes instead of simply recharging and converting one rune).

However, BT is still highly functional at supplying an on-demand death rune when you need one (and don't have one). And since you can be pretty much assured that any single rune you have up will always pair well with a death rune, there is really never a bad time to use it (unless you have no runes charged and nothing necessary to use it on, like refreshing Blood Plague).

---

For PvP, as stated 5% hit is all you really need. On the other hand, people will have varying amounts of parry and dodge, and if someone has more than a handful of it they will likely have much more than 6.5%. A small amount of expertise will probably help you hit a bit more, but you're going to see a huge swing of barely needing any to needing a massive amount to eliminate dodges/parries altogether -- not counting cooldowns that temporarily boost these chances by a massive amount.

I'm not sure if it has changed since wrath, but since either DK spec has not a small amount of spell damage, getting a handful of spell pen is also considered ideal. (Or at least it was. I'm really not current on PvP gearing.)

There are also plenty of glyph choices that have much more utility in PvP than they do in PvE, and thus become viable options to look at.

It is well worth carrying alternate weapons with different runeforges for different situations. There is really a lot to think about for PvP, and you can only use established PvE info as a rough starting point.

This is what I was looking for, thank you. I'm almost 2k on my dk as unholy, so I know about having to use utility - just started playing DK a couple weeks back though.
I just wanted to know a general opener as frost, and the minimal caps for PVP. I have the spell pen capped.

[rockallnite]

I assume you mean Blood Tap? The BotN change does eliminate the usefulness of the old bug where you could BS and convert one rune, then BT, convert the remaining blood rune and simultaneously refresh the previously spent rune (giving you two charged death runes instead of simply recharging and converting one rune).

However, BT is still highly functional at supplying an on-demand death rune when you need one (and don't have one). And since you can be pretty much assured that any single rune you have up will always pair well with a death rune, there is really never a bad time to use it (unless you have no runes charged and nothing necessary to use it on, like refreshing Blood Plague).

---

For PvP, as stated 5% hit is all you really need. On the other hand, people will have varying amounts of parry and dodge, and if someone has more than a handful of it they will likely have much more than 6.5%. A small amount of expertise will probably help you hit a bit more, but you're going to see a huge swing of barely needing any to needing a massive amount to eliminate dodges/parries altogether -- not counting cooldowns that temporarily boost these chances by a massive amount.

I'm not sure if it has changed since wrath, but since either DK spec has not a small amount of spell damage, getting a handful of spell pen is also considered ideal. (Or at least it was. I'm really not current on PvP gearing.)

There are also plenty of glyph choices that have much more utility in PvP than they do in PvE, and thus become viable options to look at.

It is well worth carrying alternate weapons with different runeforges for different situations. There is really a lot to think about for PvP, and you can only use established PvE info as a rough starting point.

This might all be true for now, but keep in mind that Blood Tap only changes a Blood Rune into a Death Rune. And since we won't have and Blood Runes to change in the first place, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be rendered useless.

[Nangz]

Oh. Sounds like a three button class

You should also be using outbreak on cooldown as it saves you an unholy rune. (And a frost rune but you should always be using rime procs for keeping up frost fever.)

[Deleted]

You should also be using outbreak on cooldown as it saves you an unholy rune. (And a frost rune but you should always be using rime procs for keeping up frost fever.)

I use my outbreak on the focus target, for added pressure

[HellscreamDK]

This might all be true for now, but keep in mind that Blood Tap only changes a Blood Rune into a Death Rune. And since we won't have and Blood Runes to change in the first place, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be rendered useless.

Blood Tap
6% of base health
1 min cooldown
Immediately activates a Blood Rune and converts it into a Death Rune for the next 20 sec. Death Runes count as a Blood, Frost or Unholy Rune.

Death runes count as blood runes so even if it doesn't convert it, blood tap will still activate the rune. Meaning you can use it to activate a death rune that is on cooldown. So its still very useful.

[Fichek]

This might all be true for now, but keep in mind that Blood Tap only changes a Blood Rune into a Death Rune. And since we won't have and Blood Runes to change in the first place, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be rendered useless.

Do 2xBlood Strike in a row so you have 2 newly formed death runes regenerating.. Use blood tap afterwards and see what happens..