Word of Glory Changes (And YOU)

[Felaful]

Alright, so this is by no means a complaint or a QQ about the change (I don't see it as much of a nerf). I'm a protection/retribution paladin, but I was just trying to consider how this change effects me.

Basically the way it appears in the pretty blue Blizz text is that for retribution and protection spec, the heal will now have a 20 second cooldown, however it will be more powerful (as opposed to the instant cast low power healing we have currently). Because WoG has been instant cast, and can pretty much be used as often as chosen, the Protection talent ability "Guarded by the Light: Rank (2/2)" which offers a temporary sacred shield effect which absorbs damage equal to overhealing, is very useful and is pretty much a requirement for most prot paladins, particularly once you've gained enough threat on your target that you can simply cast WoG once you're healed to full (to achieve overhealing).

The question here is that, with this 20 second cooldown change, is there going to be a longer effect on sacred shield, or is it going to be changed to cast a shield absorbing damage equal to the amount healed period? I ask this because with a 20 second cooldown, how is this talent useful aside from the simple 10% WoG healing increase? You get a 6 second shield every 20 seconds that absorbs some damage (if overhealed)? The frequent shield effect is highly beneficial and is a very useful talent ability for tanks, but at this point, I would actually consider not even wasting the talent point because the shield, as of now, pretty much only absorbs some damage from a single hit, not even the full hit itself.

This same ability happening only once every 20 seconds and not even absorbing a full damaging hit, is more or less a waste of a talent ability after the change. Keep in mind too that this is only the amount overhealed. with a 20 second cd, I wont use WoG unless im at low hp and absolutely need a heal to survive. There is no overhealing then...

Just something to consider, really. I think with the change in WoG, the talent itself should be changed to prove beneficial in response to the cooldown change. What do u guys think? Prot pallys?

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[Grimbold21]

Well your thread is getting closed because there's alrdy another thread on this.

[Higg]

Alright, so this is by no means a complaint or a QQ about the change (I don't see it as much of a nerf). I'm a protection/retribution paladin, but I was just trying to consider how this change effects me.

Basically the way it appears in the pretty blue Blizz text is that for retribution and protection spec, the heal will now have a 20 second cooldown, however it will be more powerful (as opposed to the instant cast low power healing we have currently). Because WoG has been instant cast, and can pretty much be used as often as chosen, the Protection talent ability "Guarded by the Light: Rank (2/2)" which offers a temporary sacred shield effect which absorbs damage equal to overhealing, is very useful and is pretty much a requirement for most prot paladins, particularly once you've gained enough threat on your target that you can simply cast WoG once you're healed to full (to achieve overhealing).

The question here is that, with this 20 second cooldown change, is there going to be a longer effect on sacred shield, or is it going to be changed to cast a shield absorbing damage equal to the amount healed period? I ask this because with a 20 second cooldown, how is this talent useful aside from the simple 10% WoG healing increase? You get a 6 second shield every 20 seconds that absorbs some damage (if overhealed)? The frequent shield effect is highly beneficial and is a very useful talent ability for tanks, but at this point, I would actually consider not even wasting the talent point because the shield, as of now, pretty much only absorbs some damage from a single hit, not even the full hit itself.

This same ability happening only once every 20 seconds and not even absorbing a full damaging hit, is more or less a waste of a talent ability after the change. Keep in mind too that this is only the amount overhealed. with a 20 second cd, I wont use WoG unless im at low hp and absolutely need a heal to survive. There is no overhealing then...

Just something to consider, really. I think with the change in WoG, the talent itself should be changed to prove beneficial in response to the cooldown change. What do u guys think? Prot pallys?

Reply With Quote

The idea behind that talent was to provide a bonus to pally tanks to encourage them to use Word of Glory at least some. If the overhealing wasn't there, you'd be likely to take that brief moment to wonder if it's worth casting or not because if it only heals you 15k and overheals 15k, is it worth it? It's not even a question with the amount overhealed turning into absorption.

I think you're looking at that talent the wrong way. The idea isn't to wait until you're full hp so you can have an absorption bubble. The bubble is there to not penalize you for overhealing yourself.

But to answer your question, I still feel like the talent is worth it. The boost and the absorption are too great to pass up, even if it's only going to happen every 20 seconds.

Well your thread is getting closed because there's alrdy another thread on this.

Looks like you didn't bother to read the OP. He's not addressing WoG, he's addressing the prot talent Guarded By the Light.

[Felaful]

The idea behind that talent was to provide a bonus to pally tanks to encourage them to use Word of Glory at least some. If the overhealing wasn't there, you'd be likely to take that brief moment to wonder if it's worth casting or not because if it only heals you 15k and overheals 15k, is it worth it? It's not even a question with the amount overhealed turning into absorption.

I think you're looking at that talent the wrong way. The idea isn't to wait until you're full hp so you can have an absorption bubble. The bubble is there to not penalize you for overhealing yourself.

But to answer your question, I still feel like the talent is worth it. The boost and the absorption are too great to pass up, even if it's only going to happen every 20 seconds.

Thanks for clearing this up. I really didn't look at the talent this way, as most people who've written about this talent made it seem like the shield was a necessity, and that the key was to spam WoG (after u got threat with enough SotR crits) to keep a constant shield up to help with damage. It makes a lot more sense though that with the little bit it does absorb (the amount over-healed), it's clearly just a bonus in the event of you over-healing yourself. Still good, as you said, but I still think I'd personally save a WoG til the moment when I really just need that extra healing boost to not die while the healer isn't able to throw a fast enough heal off on me.

This is actually good because, like it was explained in the blue post, it allows me to focus more on my damage=threat as opposed to my trying to spam WoG while topped off to absorb part of a melee attack.

Thanks again!

[drakonblayde]

Basically the way it appears in the pretty blue Blizz text is that for retribution and protection spec, the heal will now have a 20 second cooldown, however it will be more powerful (as opposed to the instant cast low power healing we have currently). Because WoG has been instant cast, and can pretty much be used as often as chosen, the Protection talent ability "Guarded by the Light: Rank (2/2)" which offers a temporary sacred shield effect which absorbs damage equal to overhealing, is very useful and is pretty much a requirement for most prot paladins, particularly once you've gained enough threat on your target that you can simply cast WoG once you're healed to full (to achieve overhealing).

Your priorities may be a little bit different, but the reason I take Guarded by the Light is because it procs Holy Shield. This means I've been able to just chain WoG to take some pressure off of my healers and not have to work SHotR in to the rotation in order to keep Holy Shield up. The additional bubble is small enough and lasts long enough that on most raid bosses, it's gone the next hit anyway, so extending the duration doesn't really help with anything.

[Deleted]

Alright, so this is by no means a complaint or a QQ about the change (I don't see it as much of a nerf). I'm a protection/retribution paladin, but I was just trying to consider how this change effects me.

Basically the way it appears in the pretty blue Blizz text is that for retribution and protection spec, the heal will now have a 20 second cooldown, however it will be more powerful (as opposed to the instant cast low power healing we have currently). Because WoG has been instant cast, and can pretty much be used as often as chosen, the Protection talent ability "Guarded by the Light: Rank (2/2)" which offers a temporary sacred shield effect which absorbs damage equal to overhealing, is very useful and is pretty much a requirement for most prot paladins, particularly once you've gained enough threat on your target that you can simply cast WoG once you're healed to full (to achieve overhealing).

The question here is that, with this 20 second cooldown change, is there going to be a longer effect on sacred shield, or is it going to be changed to cast a shield absorbing damage equal to the amount healed period? I ask this because with a 20 second cooldown, how is this talent useful aside from the simple 10% WoG healing increase? You get a 6 second shield every 20 seconds that absorbs some damage (if overhealed)? The frequent shield effect is highly beneficial and is a very useful talent ability for tanks, but at this point, I would actually consider not even wasting the talent point because the shield, as of now, pretty much only absorbs some damage from a single hit, not even the full hit itself.

This same ability happening only once every 20 seconds and not even absorbing a full damaging hit, is more or less a waste of a talent ability after the change. Keep in mind too that this is only the amount overhealed. with a 20 second cd, I wont use WoG unless im at low hp and absolutely need a heal to survive. There is no overhealing then...

Just something to consider, really. I think with the change in WoG, the talent itself should be changed to prove beneficial in response to the cooldown change. What do u guys think? Prot pallys?

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Tbh the heals of a retri paladin are unreal. This nurf needed to happen because its fucking stupid im fed up in arena going against a retri and him healing bk to full in 10 seconds. Also you can kite 24/7.

[t3hj0j0]

Also you can kite 24/7.

wait... whaaaaaaa? We can't kite at all, we have no slow. Nor can you heal back to full in 10 seconds unless you get so lucky with procs (15% chance happening 6 or more times in a row, less than .1% chance happening). Healing partner to full is possible in that time, but that is why the change occurred (as well as "prot playstyles are stoopid" in blizzs mind).

[Ap0calypse]

Tbh the heals of a retri paladin are unreal. This nurf needed to happen because its fucking stupid im fed up in arena going against a retri and him healing bk to full in 10 seconds. Also you can kite 24/7.

Obvious Troll is Obvious. Ret cannot heal back to full in 10 seconds as it takes 12 seconds to get the holy power to do so in the 1st place.

Idiot.

Edit: Keyboard turner is exactly how I envision you playing like btw. Perfect title.

[zcks]

The guy who said ret healing was op proves he is an idiot by doing so.

Ret self healing is actually a little less then what rogues with improved recuperate are capable of (excluding extreme RNG procs) the only difference is our heals dump all of our spent up resources to heal immediately instead of over time.
This combined with all of the spec's other defensive abilities being easily dispelable by 4 classes a pet & prot warriors means the spec is completely reliant on self healing for survivability.

Our off healing is much stronger but it is only stronger because ret lacks reliable gap closers & a snare thus we have no way to peel enemies off of our teammates.

This leads to ret being good at low level pvp but being horrible at higher levels where people understand the specs weaknesses & use them against the spec.

[Tiresome]

agreed ret self healing is equal to or inferior to all the other melee, and unlike a warrior ret cant just pump out dmg and healing, its a choice HEALING OR DMG? And hey, Enhance is the same way with their maelstrom weapons, why don't they put a CD on greaterhealing wave and just nerf selfless healer? its essentially the same mechanic

[Reo]

So think the Troll won for a bit because the thread has somewhat derailed.

Back on topic I'm not going to change my spec after the patch but I think as a prot paladin I'm going to have to expect to get the overheal shield a lot less often now. I dunno how it is for everyone else but the most noticeable time for the shield to kick in is when Eternal Glory procs along side with a healer getting a good heal off.

[Deleted]

Reply with qoute

Now i have replied with a qoute.

OT: I dont think they will buff the duration. WoG is simply to OP considering the ammount healed and that its instant cast.

[Fairelight]

The only concern i have with the change is soloing, I love soloing old content and try to do it as Ret where possible, Hyjal bosses require quite a bit of self healing, and this change may force me to go as prot and take 30mins per boss

[ZeroEdgeir]

So think the Troll won for a bit because the thread has somewhat derailed.

Back on topic I'm not going to change my spec after the patch but I think as a prot paladin I'm going to have to expect to get the overheal shield a lot less often now. I dunno how it is for everyone else but the most noticeable time for the shield to kick in is when Eternal Glory procs along side with a healer getting a good heal off.

With the CD going on WoG, they need to re-think the whole Guarded by the Light talent. Talents are supposed to be powerful and impacting. When I can get off a WoG once every 20sec, and only get the talent's shield by overhealing with it, I will virtually never see said shield (unless I want my healer(s) to burn more mana keeping me topped off just so one of my talents can fully function).

If anything, I think that Guarded by the Light should be redesigned some, given this huge survival penalty Prot is taking. Perhaps making it so that, instead of the overheal shield, Shield of the Righteous can provide a smaller self-heal (say 5000 or so, roughly 1/3 of Word of Glory) on use.

[t3hj0j0]

WoG is simply to OP considering the ammount healed and that its instant cast.

On self in ret/prot with medium vengeance, WoG heals for 15-20k, crit, and it has a 9-12.5 second ramp up time, if that's op to you... you need to fix your definition of OP. Selfless healer made ret off-healing OP during zealotry, which is the only reason I support any kind of CD on WoG (10 seconds would be much more appropriate than 20).

[zcks]

Now i have replied with a qoute.

OT: I dont think they will buff the duration. WoG is simply to OP considering the ammount healed and that its instant cast.

All they needed to do was adjust the scaling it did when used on self as prot & when used on others as ret. This change completely neuters ret pvp which was already horrible at high end pvp.

Unless ret gets more self defensive potential (a on demand version of sacred shield without the + healing element but a lower Cd then 1 min) or more offensive potential (a ranged snare & more reliable gap closer) the few ret paladins there are above 2200 rating will vanish. (if you look at the ratings for ret paladins above 2300 you will notice there are less than 15 in the world, thats less then half of any other spec including any spec of shaman)

---------- Post added 2011-03-06 at 11:33 AM ----------

With the CD going on WoG, they need to re-think the whole Guarded by the Light talent. Talents are supposed to be powerful and impacting. When I can get off a WoG once every 20sec, and only get the talent's shield by overhealing with it, I will virtually never see said shield (unless I want my healer(s) to burn more mana keeping me topped off just so one of my talents can fully function).

If anything, I think that Guarded by the Light should be redesigned some, given this huge survival penalty Prot is taking. Perhaps making it so that, instead of the overheal shield, Shield of the Righteous can provide a smaller self-heal (say 5000 or so, roughly 1/3 of Word of Glory) on use.

Why not simply make guarded by the light provide a shield for a set % of the amount you heal yourself for with WOG, that would keep the absorb effect useful without increasing prots ability to heal others or themselves.