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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Toho's Avatar
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    do animals really want freedom?

    ok lets think of this logically do animals really want to be out there and risk getting killed for the sake of having more space to move around in? provided that we humans give them the space they need, feed them and let them have sex i am pretty sure that animal would be happy and would flip off any PETA activists demanding it to be "freed"

    so do you guys agree or disagree?

    Edit:im talking about wild and endangered animals.
    who cares about the domestic ones? we got many.
    Last edited by Toho; 2011-03-05 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Myeah agree, I'd be happy with that situation for myself at least

  3. #3
    The Patient ComradeNorton's Avatar
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    Would depend on both the animal in question and the species of the animal. I think most domesticated animals would like to live with someone as long they aren't treating them badly.
    Last edited by ComradeNorton; 2011-03-04 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Typo
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  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Toho's Avatar
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    im talking about wild and endangered animals.
    who cares about the domestic ones? we got many.

  5. #5
    Animals don't "want" anything. They simply do what comes naturally when given the proper habitat. The issue about having large natural spaces is more related to not destroying local ecosystems in my opinion. The minute you start removing species from any given ecosystem you begin destroying others up and down the chain. The outcome of this is often not known for generations and generations. Recent talk has been that we're in the midst of an extinction level event as it is right now. (If I can't link URLs yet, check on google's news site for extinction.)

    Huffington Post link here.... =/

    By placing animals in captivity you begin to alter them in ways that hinder their ability to be natural. Is that always a bad thing? No, of course not.

    I think some of the PETA folks are idiots that try to release animals in the wrong locations and for the wrong reasons. For instance, releasing lobsters into waters in cities that mean certain death for the lobster, often in a slow and painful way because the salinity is not correct or the temperatures are completely wrong. Other animals have never been loose in the wild and have no idea how to fend for themselves or feed themselves because they've been in captivity or bred into captivity thus suppressing their natural instincts.

    There should be something in the middle between the two extremes, more natural is better in my opinion unless there's reason for specific animals not to be in natural areas.

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten eternalwhitemoon's Avatar
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    Yeah, it really depends on the critter. Some aren't meant to be with humans and some refuse to breed in captivity.

    Also, I love animals, but I don't like PETA. Too extremist for my taste.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    That's the way of life mate. the world outside your basement is full of amazing yet horrible things caused by nature.
    But....the real question should be:" Do we, the Homo Sapiens Sapiens, have freedom?"

    Nature has a way to balance stuff. But by our doing (yeah, bla bla, superior begins ftl) they might not be needing freedom because they would get killed by us. A zoo is just a way to show 'prisoners' to the public, while the rest of the animals are being killed every second. I'm not saying they abuse the animals in a Zoo....
    How would you feel to be in a cage, presented butt-naked in a Mall? Exactly.
    Last edited by Alceus; 2011-03-04 at 11:21 PM.
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  8. #8
    Animals desire what everyone else wants...Sexual satisfaction!
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  9. #9
    The Patient ComradeNorton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    im talking about wild and endangered animals.
    who cares about the domestic ones? we got many.
    Oh, thought you might be talking about domesticated animals because some animal rights crazies have done some shit like burning down pet stores which is just completely stupid.
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  10. #10
    I think there is a certain symbiosis among animals. You can break them down into two camps.

    1. Those who follow the crowd or run with the pack. They are driven by fear, reliant on each other, and don't fare as well on their own.
    2. Those that hunt the pack. They are more cunning, and drive fear into the hearts of the pack runners.

    Predators and prey. Lions vs a herd of gazelles.

    Sometimes I see a bit of it reflect in human behavior. You have the pack runners, those are your overwhelming majority. And then you have the strange loners, who are off to themselves quietly observing, close but not too close. The loners cause the pack runners to feel a bit unsettled, like they are a flock of gazelles noticing this quiet lion casually watching them from the tall grass.

    Do they value freedom? Its likely the predators do more than the prey. The prey value safety first.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2011-03-04 at 11:45 PM.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    I have three cats and all but one is afraid of the front door. the one not afraid has no fear and likes to take showers. 0.o yes I have a cat that will come into the shower with me.

  12. #12
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    do they really want anything?

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  13. #13
    Don´t think even humans satisfy with just freedom in the end.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixor View Post
    Don´t think even humans satisfy with just freedom in the end.
    I think there might be a cycle with regards to human behavior based on scarcity. Let's say you start with freedom. Freedom brings prosperity. And with that prosperity, people begin to demand entitlements. The entitlements undermine the prosperity, and you enter decline. Decline sows the seeds of revolt, and then a dictator assumes power to rule with an iron fist. Eventually, the dictator dies and power is handed down to the next dictator. Sooner or later, a weak and inept person becomes dictator, and his lieutenants begin to siphon power from him and emerge as a nobility. Eventually, the dictatorship falls as the nobility assumes control. The nobility, seeking their own prosperity, morph into captains of industry, and a free society emerges. And now you are back to freedom, and the cycle begins again.

    This cycle will continue until the scarcity problem is resolved.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome galaxiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    im talking about wild and endangered animals.
    You should put this in your OP, people are getting off topic on domestic animals.

    Like people have stated, it depends on the species. Some species are in captivity to preserve the species or to re populate them. Then there are animals in sanctuaries who most of the time were animals who were bought as exotic pets and were abused or given away as they got older and wilder. These animals can't live in the wild, due to the fact that most like lions, monkeys, and apes, live in packs are are usually born into that pack and would never be accepted by one just releasing them in the wild and would die of not knowing how to hunt or most likely be killed. So yeah youre right.

    Do not ever listen to PETA. Do research on them, dont just go to their site, google the truth about peta and you'll find some shocking information. I am all for animal activists and people with a passion for saving animals but this "organization" does more harm then good. They are extremists, and extremists are usually stupid. Think of them as the KKK of the animal activist world.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    -snip-
    Making a rule everyone agrees to.

    Kill and torture anyone who gives orders to anyone.

  17. #17
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuxO-C2IzE

    I think the animal consciousness and its wants and needs are far more complex than we think they are.

  18. #18
    well as a human we can understand and comprehend an animals though processes, and unless something is developed which can allow us to understand what they're thinking we won't know.

    From what i can gather from my cat the thought process is basically i want food, now i want sleep, rinse and repeat.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    If someone:
    1. Put excercise shit in my house and give me some space to move around in.
    2. Put some nice lady in my house for me to fuck with.
    3. Gave me unlimited acces to food.
    4. Tok care of my kids if i simply just threw them away.

    On the one sole condition that i could NOT leave the house and people could peak in. Then i would flip off any organisation trying to free me.

    Im sorry but that sounds like heaven to me. Also people is not in the Zoo during night time so i could do my private business then =D.
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    provided that we humans give them the space they need, feed them and let them have sex
    You say 'have sex' like animals do it like us humans. The only other type of animal that has sex like us - that is to say, for fun - is the dolphin. Every other species mates for the sole purpose of perpetuating their bloodlines and their specie. They suffer no ill effects from us not 'letting them have sex' whatsoever, because they only do it out of instinctual necessity in the first place.

    That said, wild animals belong in the wild, yes, but because we humans are terrible creatures, these animals are probably safer in zoos and sanctuaries. I have no issues with zoos and sanctuaries, but people that are keeping tigers and alligators for pets are fucking stupid. Provided the animals are given adequate space, a proper diet, and the social interaction they need to stay sane, it can be a fine situation for them. The more naturally they are allowed to live in captivity, the better.

    It's important to remember that most of these animals do not think like we humans. They will not think 'wow this is a great life, don't have to worry about food, don't have to worry about predators, got some laydeez to keep me busy, etc.' All most of them know is their basic needs and how their surroundings will accomodate them.

    I detest PETA.

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