Fixing WoW's Social Problem

[Rockmanzero]

Ok solution for a social problem is most times, let people meet each other face to face and talk.....
But that would take the whole purpose of meeting people from all over Europe/US/any other part meet each other ......
I think WoW is a social problem when it comes to real life.
Nothing offensive just saying what is on my mind

[madyrn]

You actually can force community. It was done in vanilla up to when the random heroic system was put into place.
When a well known player stated they were going to do a raid or instance people jumped at the chance.
Now the well known players have become just random people you pass at the AH.

Wait times would be put back into the players hands. Don't want to wait? Find people in server. Low population server got you down? Move. From vanilla to now they have bent and bent to the lazy population who didn't want to travel to the instance, so they put up stones. Now you don't even have to use the stones you just hit random and wait. Wait times are a piss poor excuse. Tanks and healers never had to wait for a group from vanilla to the end of wrath. And for that matter neither did well known DPS. If you are known for being good in your server or guild there shouldn't be a problem finding a group.

So the people that don't complain, do play well but only play at off-peak hours should be screwed? Whether you can see it or not, the LFD tool was a great thing for the game. The social aspect of it is only affected by those who are not social. I don't care to be in a huge guild but I like meeting people while I'm out and about and also when I'm doing randoms. The social obligation that comes with a guild is more than I care to deal with while the LFD allows me to still enjoy the game and do it on my schedule. It does not affect you either way if you're in a guild or have friends you play with so why care about it?

[Knirps]

Erm...

I agree with some of the other posters... You can't force community.

If the quality of players has gone downhill, that's just as much a problem with people as it is with Blizzard.

On these forums, we might only hear about the bad PUG stories and the bad server disconnect stories, but the truth is we barely see a percent of the population of WoW, not only because this is a sub-fansite, but because it's mainly people who can type or read English.

It really doesn't take that much to just connect with people on your server. The simplest thing from saying something in general to seeking out a guild can help improve you chances of finding a social-friend. If no one replies...isn't that a problem on their end? There's no way Blizzard can force people to talk more just because it's people on your server.

If this is purely from a social aspect, then the LFD tool is incredibly useful. You are exposed, for an amount of time, to people you otherwise would have never met. You are put in a different social situation in every group. Social interaction does not come solely from instances/raids, as can easily be seen by the fact that we can whisper and type outside instances. Suddenly forcing people to be randomly selected to group with random people from your own server does not instantly mean you will find some hidden connection and ever lasting friendship.

It's still random, and if you never talked in instances before, you still aren't going to.

The thing that made people talk before, and still does, was the wait time. If we used your system, we'd still be in the same place because all of the waiting is done solo. Instances aren't exactly there to be a social time anyway, and if you'll notice, people only talk during down time or, again, wait time while requeuing or whatnot.

I don't know why people rush to the LFD tool as the downfall of all social activity in WoW. If anything, the only reason people socialize less now is because there are more people in the game, and the LFD tool provided previously un-social people (for whatever reason) with a means to actually participate in the game.

You can still make your own groups, you can still force the wait time on yourself or others with single-server groupings, as is done with raids. You can still get a guild, talk to people, be social, and put yourself in social enviroments, which, honestly, an instance is not. You might need to collaborate or strategize with other players, but unlike people seem to imagine in their heads, there is no need for small-talk and polite banter to sucessfully overcome a 5-man. And people who don't make that small talk or don't respond to the polite banter are not terrible people.


Anyway, I wouldn't support a change like this and I doubt many other people would, either. You want to force another wait time on people who are already waiting upwards of 45 minutes just to fuel a social experiment of sorts.

People who want to chat will find people to chat with.

People who want to do an instance will join LFD and expect to down some bosses and get some loot with no expectations of having to front some social facade. If they choose to talk, so be it. But shoving 'server loyalty' down their throats isn't going to make anyone talk more, and it isn't going to make WoW as a whole any more sociable than it already is.

[aaron210]

blizzard doesnt give a crap about this all they want is our monaaayyy

[grandpab]

I don't think there is a way to fix it at this point. The games been out for too long.

The community in Asherons Call was my favorite out of any game I've played. It used a monarch system with patrons and vassals, and it was the shit. Your patron that you would end up swearing allegiance to would end up being one of your best friends in the game, it was usually the person that helped you out the most and played with the most.

Vassals (the people who have allegiance sworn to someone) would pass up a certain percent of experience to their patron when they earned experience, so a lot of times you'd also be hunting with your patron, or he'd be pling you, helping you level the easier way.

Then there was the monarchy, all the people that were in that allegiance, and group activities and quests would usually be done with the allegiance. There was also player housing, you could have your personal house and then mansions were for allegiances, and usually you could find a decent number of your allegiance hanging out at the mansion.

There was also this place people called subway, and it's where the majority of the server would be if you had nothing to do, and it made that the trade central. There was no AH, you had to talk to people, say you WTB or WTS, and then work out a deal with the person. That was another thing I liked in that game, there was more currency than just gold, certain stackable keys that opened chests with good loot was a form of payment people would accept.

[zingar]

I agree with some of the other posters... You can't force community.

im sorry but thats just wrong.

its like high school i guess. you dont go there to make friends, you actually go because you have to, but of course while being there youll make friends. if there was no such thing such as high school i cant even think where else to get friends from. yes there are other places but the most important one to me (by a long shot) is high school.

same with dungeons, you dont go there to make friends but youll probably make some in the long run (i used to have plenty, of course mostly not really friends some but at least people you could talk to and count on to get stuff done).
how else do you say we get friends. by posting in general chat "hello im looking for friends?" that is just pathetic and unlikely to work. yes theres guilds but i always loved being in my own 1 man guild and besides how would you know which guild to join if your just looking to "socialize"?
also another important thing back then is that you KNEW people, even if you didnt care about them at least youd get to know your server a little bit and feel more immersed in the game.

im sure every one of you that said that you cant force community is because they started to play with the LFD tool.

[Crispin]

You can't force community. If you want to improve the community you need to start with yourself instead of expecting blizzard to wave a magic wand that will suddenly make people nice to each other. Your suggestion does nothing but punish people and extend the already long wait times on the LFD tool.

Wrong, you can enforce community, be forcing players to INTERACT with other players on the same server.


The communities were far better and working well before cross server LFD, heck I've recruited a good amount of players in pug's, and meet friends there.

[kortin]

Wrong, you can enforce community, be forcing players to INTERACT with other players on the same server.


The communities were far better and working well before cross server LFD, heck I've recruited a good amount of players in pug's, and meet friends there.

You have obviously forgotten all of the idiots you met as well, because I can promise, they outnumber the good players on every server. I promise also, that you don't want cross server lfd gone.

[Taeverity]

I think that most of the problems have to do with a lack of accountability based on the anonymous nature of the random system. You wanna insult someone for your wipe? Go ahead, the worst they can do is try to kick you from the group.

If groups were found on realm, no way most of the social problems would occur. Blacklists would be made and friend lists would be used more often for finding groups.

For fixing the current finder, perhaps you could fill out a quick rating for certain members to help matchmaking. You could state what type of wow player you are (casual, raider etc) and you would be grouped with other people of the same brand. The ranking could be used to match you in the future with people of your similar rating.

Just a quick thought.

[Knuffelbert]

You have obviously forgotten all of the idiots you met as well, because I can promise, they outnumber the good players on every server. I promise also, that you don't want cross server lfd gone.

I'm sure he hasn't. But I've gotten to know players (and join guilds over the years) due to building reputation when going instances/randomraids, which led to more frequent play with a (larger) group of people while in TS and things just go from there. Sure, only 1/100 of players you come across are interesting enough to get to know better, but at least it was 1/100 and the chances you come across them again are relatively high. Now you get cross realm (reducing the chance by how many players are on other realms compared to yours and reduces chance of coming across them again to pretty much 0) and finding people while spamming in trade to do a random is pretty hard compared to the olden days.

I enjoy the LFG tool, and don't want to miss it. But I also met a few nice people (who I met IRL as well) as well as a former girl friend, which I can't really see happening again. Wish the LFG had an option to force same realm (the current prioritization is never working on my server)

[smrund]

Condensed re-post using ideas and criticism from a previous post. This is how I would fix the loss of socialization server wide. Many people are attracted to WoW as a social game. Playing with people you WANT to play with makes the game more fun.


Problem:

Server socialization has vanished.

Why?:

Cross server random dungeon/heroics.

Guilt by association is not a valid argument. The WoW community has issues for a number of reasons, all of which are entirely unrelated to the LFD, though possibly exacerbated by it.

"Special snowflake" syndrome is a big one, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that everyone wants to feel special and unique in a game, but only a few people can accomplish that. Because of the rapid inflation of numbers, this leads people to the belief that because they (may) be better players, that makes them better people. This is an issue in any game with any form of progression. It is entirely unavoidable though it can be mitigated though some means.

Disrespect for the needs of others, it's not unique to WoW, and it's a major issue in the real world as much as it is in WoW. You get into a dungeon only to find out that the players are only there to farm one boss, they don't care why you're there or what you need, only what they need. See: Halls of Origination. You can't really fix this in the game, either the player(s) who need X bitch fit until they're kicked, or they give in. There's no room for compromise, notably, this is exacerbated by RNG loot. If all relevant loot was purchasable, then it wouldn't matter which bosses you down because in the end they still reward the necessary points to get what you need.

The only thing that the LFD has made worse is the anonymity that already existed in the game. Those who were disrespected can now take out their frustrations on others, thanks to the ability to almost NEVER see the people you piss off ever again. LFD isn't the only problem here. Server transfers, name/race/faction changes also exacerbate this problem. likestokillnoobs raid you guild bank? Oh well now he's FranktheTank on another server and the people there will never know he's a bank raider.

LFD only made the existing problems more obvious. I've gotten all-my-server Zul'Pugs who were amazing. I've gotten all-my-server pugs who were complete assholes. You can't force community, and just because someone is on your server doesn't mean they have any obligation to give a shit about you. Making LFD favor pugs from your own server first may help you make friends, but it isn't going to stop people from being assholes, even if everyone on your server ignores you, you can still LFD and pug with everyone else on the battlegroup and be just as big an asshole, then server/faction change and start all over.

If you want to improve the community, you need to give people more carrot and less stick to be kind to their fellow WoW players, and the current direction of WoW, that is, unforgiving instances that create high levels of stress and quickly separate people into the "haves" and "have nots" is not going to make the situation better.

[Timethief]

Ah... community.

Everquest was my first MMO, Mech 2 was my first real online game (That community was so small everyone knew each other). EQ was not as successful, content wise, as WoW. Its content was sorely lacking in comparison, but what EQ did succeed at end-game player quality and community. If you played EQ then you already know you couldnt get anywhere unless you knew how to play the game (Especially as a Bard), so the general skill level of Raiding guilds was significantly higher than WoW. The primary reason behind this was the leveling system: Grind. Quests didnt exist in EQ as a type of leveling, they were primarily Lore based. You had to be a specific class and really good to solo anything in that game, requiring the majority of players to group-grind in camps for hours upon hours - I recall many times i camped with others for 6-8hours, but I was like 15 at the time hence no obligations. Six people confined to one place relying on one another to do their job well for long periods of time lead to some of the most intriguing conversations and intricate friendships i've ever taken part in. EQ literally forced player communities... Even if you didnt like someone, there was still a sense of respect in the very least.

WoW on the otherhand allows players to go 1-85 Solo every step of the way, doing little in the way of forcing players to learn their class, much less encourage interacting with others. The less reliant people are on each other the less desire they have to form any kind of relationship or respect for their fellow players. Player communities go hand in hand with interaction... So if there isnt any interaction, you wont have a community.

There's a few things that create/inhibit interaction:

1. Isolation - Restricting people either by location or size of player pools encourages a more social and respectable atmosphere.
2. Leveling - A system that does not encourage or require people working together discourages player interaction.
3. Rewards - When the rewards for solo endeavors are equal to that of group-based game play, especially during the most critical phases of a gamer's evolution (the pre-endgame levels), a player is not enticed to interact with others, leaving them sorely lacking in friends and social graces when they finally reach end-game content.

Animosity takes the place of Friendship, Angst replaces Respect and a sense of Entitlement snuffs out Common Courtesy. Why care about others, you obviously dont need them if you got this far on your own. I look back and see i was a nicer, more decent person in EQ than i am in WoW. In EQ i started a group with strangers, spent the next 3+ hours with them and left the group with more friends than i started with. In WoW PuGs i sit silently in the background doing my job counting the minutes until it's over praying someone doesnt screw up so i dont have to resist the urge to be a complete douchebag to them... I'm not an elitist, i believe everyone should know their class by the time they hit 85. Sadly, many do not. I dont like treating people in such a way, but i find myself in that situation on a daily basis nearly every PuG in WoW and my patience does eventually wear out... whereas it was a far between rarity in EQ, and EQ has an LFD tool as well.

Can you blame the LFD tool for this? Certainly. Would that be a good idea? No. The LFD tool creates opportunities for a player to expand their social network. It doesnt do much good, though, if a person isnt taught to respect and depend on their fellow player. I would place the blame solely on Warcraft's progression system. In allowing people the opportunity to 'go it alone', they remove the a player's dependence on his fellow man, which is the best way if ever there was one to form bonds and solidify budding relationships. Just look at the american military; you would be hard pressed to find a group of people with more respect for, and dedication to, one another. Why? Because they rely and depend on each other.

[Kangodo]

Wrong, you can enforce community, be forcing players to INTERACT with other players on the same server.


The communities were far better and working well before cross server LFD, heck I've recruited a good amount of players in pug's, and meet friends there.

So they implement a system that you ONLY get Valor Points after you typed X lines in party chat?
That is the only way you can enfore community and force them to interact.

What you are saying is this: "The community was far more social before WotLK, seeing as LFD happened at that time I will blame that!"
But this social misbehavior is directly connected to the player-attitude.

[Rhys]

Blizzard would never do this, while it could help the community, it would cost them far too many subs and God forbid they lose money just to greatly improve their game's atmosphere.

But, there is one sure fire way to fix Warcraft's in game community, make it an RTS again.

[Knirps]

im sorry but thats just wrong.

its like high school i guess. you dont go there to make friends, you actually go because you have to, but of course while being there youll make friends. if there was no such thing such as high school i cant even think where else to get friends from. yes there are other places but the most important one to me (by a long shot) is high school.

same with dungeons, you dont go there to make friends but youll probably make some in the long run (i used to have plenty, of course mostly not really friends some but at least people you could talk to and count on to get stuff done).
how else do you say we get friends. by posting in general chat "hello im looking for friends?" that is just pathetic and unlikely to work. yes theres guilds but i always loved being in my own 1 man guild and besides how would you know which guild to join if your just looking to "socialize"?
also another important thing back then is that you KNEW people, even if you didnt care about them at least youd get to know your server a little bit and feel more immersed in the game.

im sure every one of you that said that you cant force community is because they started to play with the LFD tool.

You completely ignore my entire post or any reason I posted and just flat out say the original idea is wrong.

Going to school isn't forcing community, school is there FOR the community. One of the main reasons kids are put in school in the first place is to interact with other people and to learn how to socialize, it's something you learn at school. It's just not there SOLELY for social interaction. Just like none of WoW is SOLELY for social interaction, it's a game to play WITH social interaction. You could easily play a solo console game and you could easily be homeschooled and not exposed to any other kids, and even, you could play WoW without socializing.

I actually started back in vanilla, and I know there were days you wanted to just go into an instance and instead, have to wait 4 hours with two other DPS and the occasional tank/healer rotated through your group. The LFD tool made it so when I wanted to do instances and do them sometime relatively soon with no obligation to sit and find people, I could. Just like I can easily go into town and say to myself, 'Hey, I'd like to do an instance with my guildies.' or 'Hey, I'd like a server only group, I wonder if anyone else is up for it.' Only now, I also have the option to grab the first 2 people to say 'Me!' along with joining LFD to make my job easier.

Now, how is Ctrl-V'ing 'Excuse me, would you like to tank/heal/DPS H SV?' and pasting it into the chat frame for every single character of the appropriate level in any zone in any way more 'social'? In your example, it might be related to saying 'here' for roll-call. It is solely social in that someone might respond but in no way does it explicitly involve long, socialish activities.

Maybe you try to sweeten the deal, maybe you throw in a bribe, say summons are ready, etc, but that isn't more socializing, that's just more advertising, which, happens to be in a 'social' form, whispers and typing, but isn't exactly creating bonds and conversations.

If anything, school is more akin to WoW itself. You go to a place or game to learn or play. You are surrounded by people. There are bad people and good people and a wave of seemingly hundreds of them pass by you daily. If someone drops their books or asks for help on a quest, you might start talking to them. When you are in a class or in an instance you might pass a note or whisper someone who seems to be on the same page as you as to the difficulty or patheticness of the class or other people in the instance. It's a chance you take to find someone similar to you. I still do it cross server and there's absolutely no reason for anyone else not to, either. Yes, sometimes I find someone of a similar mind and we can make fun of class/the instance together, but normally, I'll talk about the class/instance afterwards, in more depth, and with more conversation AFTER the class/instance with friends/the guild I already had.

Also, no one is saying to sit in general and say 'hi im 12 i want freinds plz' because yeah, it does look sorta pathetic. But you put that exact example there specifically to look pathetic. At any time, pre or post-LFD tool, I randomly say things in general chat. Most of the time I actually make a totally off-the-wall comment about the show I'm watching, the same as I do in guild and strangely enough, the same as I'd do in school.

It's incredible the amount of people you meet by literally just posting/saying something random. 'NOOOO DANIEL JACKSON!! DON'T DIE! WHHYYY??!!!' And upon that general chat entry, in Stormpeaks, 5 days ago, I sat and talked to 5 different people for an hour about Stargate SG-1.

And do you know why I didn't say instance in that example? Because I wouldn't shout or try to make friends in an instance by telling them I'm watching TV at the time. Why? Because I'm there to do an instance, not find a love connection and not to find a shoulder to cry on because Carter's dad just fucking died. I mean, he did it to himself and he was happy with his decision, but STILL! Ugh, now there's no way SGC will have a viable link to create another alliance with the Tok'ra.

Maybe I'm weird, maybe I'm different, but in my opinion...you can't force a community on people who are using a tool specifically to, not exactly avoid because they hate it, but to get around the forced 'community making' of spamming 345 level 85s who might be able to tank or heal the instance they want to go to.

People are social creatures, just because not all of them are social with you doesn't mean there is no community.

[Rylas]

blue post, patch notes...

LFG Tool will now try to first fill the group with players from the same server.

[Knirps]

blue post, patch notes...

LFG Tool will now try to first fill the group with players from the same server.

See, now, that's not a bad thing and it isn't pretending to end all social problems in the game.
The addition is simple and right to the point, it'll scan players for the same realm and go with that first. From the post, it isn't saying it'll make you sit for 10 minutes while it waits for people from your own realm. As long as there isn't an addition that says it will force you to wait extra time for this addition to LFD, I think it's a good addition to LFD.

Hopefully the supporters for the change in this thread will take this as a win and not as a cop-out.