IS hit REALLY worth it?

[Phraun]

If a haunt misses for affliction warlocks they are screwed, VERY screwed. Idk what shadow priests have, but I'm sure you have something similar.

This. This is why I go for hit cap over everything else, simcraft be damned. Nothing is worse than hardcasting a soul fire only to have it miss. All of a sudden dots are falling off, conflag goes grey, etc. and you're casting soul fire again. The effects go far beyond that of simply "Oh noes, I missed a spell D:"

[Skarrd]

I've been saying this since Ulduar. Hit is a STAT. it has a STAT WEIGHT just like ANY other STAT.

The only way not being hit capped can be more detrimental than the sims are telling you is if you have a specific job that not being capped can fuck up (dispels, interrupts, etc). The argument "well what if I miss big cooldown spell X?" Well, that sucks, but the probability of that happening every pull is just shy of impossible. You'll have "lucky" pulls and "unlucky" pulls if you aren't hit capped. Neither will be THAT big of a gap from the other.

I suppose another relevant time where being hit capped could be short burns like green phase maloriak, where one miss sets you back on dps for about 10% of the phase since it is so brief. I doubt that's a huge deal unless you're incredibly low on hit, though.

TBH from those stat weights up there it sounds like being hit capped is actually a detriment to shadow dps unless you simply can't avoid it (seems impossible with reforging). It sucks in the realm of security of rotation (which is what makes people like the hit cap, it allows you to feel comfortable with the reliability of it), but hit is not good. Ever found yourself saying "lol crit is such a garbage spriest stat, d/e that piece" throughout any of your wow career? Well, sub in the word hit, same story. Stats are stats are stats are stats.

[Aica]

If a haunt misses for affliction warlocks they are screwed, VERY screwed. Idk what shadow priests have, but I'm sure you have something similar.

We don't, but the addition of movement makes missing dots more detrimental.

---------- Post added 2011-03-07 at 01:56 PM ----------

I've been saying this since Ulduar. Hit is a STAT. it has a STAT WEIGHT just like ANY other STAT.

The only way not being hit capped can be more detrimental than the sims are telling you is if you have a specific job that not being capped can fuck up (dispels, interrupts, etc). The argument "well what if I miss big cooldown spell X?" Well, that sucks, but the probability of that happening every pull is just shy of impossible. You'll have "lucky" pulls and "unlucky" pulls if you aren't hit capped. Neither will be THAT big of a gap from the other.

I suppose another relevant time where being hit capped could be short burns like green phase maloriak, where one miss sets you back on dps for about 10% of the phase since it is so brief. I doubt that's a huge deal unless you're incredibly low on hit, though.

TBH from those stat weights up there it sounds like being hit capped is actually a detriment to shadow dps unless you simply can't avoid it (seems impossible with reforging). It sucks in the realm of security of rotation (which is what makes people like the hit cap, it allows you to feel comfortable with the reliability of it), but hit is not good. Ever found yourself saying "lol crit is such a garbage spriest stat, d/e that piece" throughout any of your wow career? Well, sub in the word hit, same story. Stats are stats are stats are stats.

... no. Read the whole thread, not just the first couple posts.

[Shadowspawn115]

Ok. To clarify.
Most classes Hit cap is the first thing you need for various reasons. A single hit missing is very detrimental for some classes (i.e. the warlock and Haunt)
However, SP have no such mechanic. Empowered shadow will proc from a mind blast cast even if it misses. The only thing is if a cast of VT that may need redone or a channel of MF that needs started again.

For all the people citing that you need hit cap because my hunter/dk/warlock needs it, this is irrelevant.

[HeatM1ser]

I;'ve missed a few times with VT, DP and mind flay when I was at 10.5% hit. It was easy to recognize because of how I have my power auras set up, and the mind flay simply doesnt show the spell animation---so I just rechannel it. So I think hit is very overrated for players who are used to raiding---especially ones who can quickly recognize when one of their spells misses and adjust quickly. Again, my miss rate in raids has been about 1.7% at 10.5% hit, and maxed out at 2.3% one time....SO despite being 6.5% under the hit cap, the numbers dont mirror my hit rating when I check out the logs.

[underdogba]

you can have 30% crit chance and still go on a 10spell attack noncrit streak. the less hit you have the bigger chance it is to fail an attack.
Not being hitcapped is like having a "proc" to miss on all your attacks.
Hitcap> (expertice melee) > pure stat > secondary stat
^will allways be the proper way to gear up, wont change ever.

That's a good rule of thumb generally speaking, but this is a very popular misconception. You could just as easily argue that not being "crit-capped" is like a having a proc to only do normal damage on all your attacks. When hit is valued most among all secondary stats until cap, it is always because it produces the most dps per stat point. If the numbers work out in such a way that a different secondary stat produces more dps per point, then hit would no longer be in that position.

[Arlee]

I;'ve missed a few times with VT, DP and mind flay when I was at 10.5% hit. It was easy to recognize because of how I have my power auras set up, and the mind flay simply doesnt show the spell animation---so I just rechannel it. So I think hit is very overrated for players who are used to raiding---especially ones who can quickly recognize when one of their spells misses and adjust quickly. Again, my miss rate in raids has been about 1.7% at 10.5% hit, and maxed out at 2.3% one time....SO despite being 6.5% under the hit cap, the numbers dont mirror my hit rating when I check out the logs.

If you are raiding with 10.5% you are pushing this debate the extreme edges about what people are talking about when discussing the need for hit. Also, being a certain % under hit does not mean in every fight your miss rate will be that %. It means in all your fights put together it would even out to that % miss.

Also keep in mind Imp DP can miss but the dot will still apply. How much you can up your dps by ditching hit depends on how well you can react to a miss which is why this boils down to a personal preference debate. One person might be able to put out more dps at very low hit if the are really good a noticing misses and do not have much lag. Someone playing with more lag, or who doesn't notice so much when one of their spells miss would not benefit from this method.

[kaijyuu]

Being hit capped is not necessary for shadow priests. Its value is dependent on your reaction time; if you don't notice VP fell off for 2+ GCDs, yes hit's going to be above crit and mastery. If you do notice though, hit is a SP's weakest stat. Not to say it's bad; just not as good as the others.

[Noradin]

The value of hit is also dependant on how much annoyance you can tolerate and how much concentration you want to spent on making sure your spells really applied after you cast them. While it might not be as valuable for shadows in terms of damage potential because of the way dots work it is more valuable for us in terms of concentration taken than for classes that might just use the same spell again anyway instead of really reacting to misses.
Simulations used to determine the relative worth of stats normally don't take this part into account and just assume ideal concentration without any possible distractions.

[scandalis]

I run about 2% under hit and it has its disadvantages... Those things i tend to miss are a 3 orb MB during wings at a crucial time... I still top meters but i could top even more if i was hit capped. Don't gem for straight hit, reforge as much of it as possible. I'm not a theorycrafter by any means but i cringe each time I see something miss especially if its a 3 orb MB. Being a little under is not a terrible thing, being grossly under is however. Try to get to the 17% as close as you can without gimping your other stats.

[Vook]

IMO being hit capped or not is up to you. Me? I like not having to worry about missing and having to re-cast DoTs if they miss, losing DPS. I mean, hitcap isn't hard, you don't even need all-spirit pieces to do it. I'd rather be sure that I'm not going to miss and have steady DPS, than miss sometimes and have slightly higher DPS only IF I get lucky and don't miss. I'm not in a bleeding-edge progression guild, so I don't need to utterly maximize my DPS in every way shape and form.

[HeatM1ser]

If you are raiding with 10.5% you are pushing this debate the extreme edges about what people are talking about when discussing the need for hit. Also, being a certain % under hit does not mean in every fight your miss rate will be that %. It means in all your fights put together it would even out to that % miss.

Also keep in mind Imp DP can miss but the dot will still apply. How much you can up your dps by ditching hit depends on how well you can react to a miss which is why this boils down to a personal preference debate. One person might be able to put out more dps at very low hit if the are really good a noticing misses and do not have much lag. Someone playing with more lag, or who doesn't notice so much when one of their spells miss would not benefit from this method.

I typically have a fast reaction time,since I know that I'm not capped and I can quickly recognize if my spells or DoTs miss. Also, I have a leet computer and no lag at all. The highest my latency has been in the last 2 months in raids was 20ms. It usually hovers around 12-16ms. SO maybe the faster computer and low latency has worked to my advantage...but maybe my results would differ if I had a mediocre computer and an average latency of say 80-100ms. Even with everything turned up to ultra, I neve drop below 160FPS, and usually stay above 200FPS and my latency doesnt go up.

[Haotududis]

Crit = Hit/Spirit > Mastery basically at the moment.

But as many other people have been saying in this thread, it really depends on how/if you can react to a miss ASAP. If you can recognize a miss as soon as it happens, then reapply the DOT straight after, being under hit cap is perfectly fine. However, if you have problems with this and cannot follow raid mechanics on top of this, it is not the ideal thing to do and you'll be losing more DPS by being under cap.

This does not mean that hit is a completely useless stat, but the cap is not necessary for any raiding shadow priest.

[Deleted]

You shouldn't really be sacrificing haste nor intellect for the gain of hit as a shadow priest. Nothing crucial can affect you if you aren't hit capped. Sure you can miss with a nice mind blast or a shadow word: death, but that's just as RNGish as criting with sh:d instead of mind blast. If a DoT miss, you should refresh it as soon as you can, it's all about awareness. I usually miss with around 2-6 spells during a fight, and I am running around with 15 % hit chance I think.

[Fojos]

Only thing it proves is that simulations are good and players are bad.

[Kugel]

What people keep overlooking and I don't think understanding... and it's been said before... is yes you can be under hit capped and be fine, but you have to notice you missed... if you didn't notice, like you had to move outta fire, or do something else you're going to lose out on dps... thus a dps loss because things didn't happen when they did... so while yes, int is a better stat, hit will give you better leeway to if you have to pay attention to your surroundings/

[bayi]

Dont go for hit cap if you can live with the following:
- if MB misses it still refreshes / applies ES
- SWD missing hurts but its not a big deal
- if you miss a dot reaplly it , im using Forte Exorcist which has a nice sound for miss
- Int/Haste is more dps gain than hit/crit/mastery

in thre rare case where u must interrupt ( and a SP with a 45sec int isnt a good interrupter either ) then u need hit cap, but there are no other reasons going for it.

Im raiding ( 12/12 Normal modes ) with around 14-15 % hit, i rarely miss a spell ( on chimeraon i miss a lot, but with hit cap too, thanx to the debuff ) and i do more dps than before with hit cap.

[Deleted]

Situation : Neferion is lower then 1% enrage hits, whole raid wipes, you the fierce priest remain, that last mindblast that you're casting is gonna kill it and end the countless wipes you had that day, and give you epics.....you cast......cast bar is nearly full....neferion is focusing on you.......cast bar is full, you Cast the spell...and you MISS...

[soulyouth]

If your not hit capped, cause a sim said you will do higher dps you need to be beaten with a stick.

[Arborus]

Theorcrafting can never account for how a miss can affect your rotation/ priority system and therefore your DPS. Reason being, the timing of when a miss happens can have such a profound effect that one miss can have arguable zero affacte on your DPS whereas another miss 2-3 seconds later could destroy your rotation and therefore you DPS.

Example, I'll use Frost DK cuz that's what I know.

1) You start attacking your target and load up your diseases using either Outbreak or Plague Strike and Icy Touch. The next thing you should be doing is using your BS to create Death Runes.

A) Frost doesn't use Icy Touch. Ever. Glyphed Howling Blast applies Frost Fever is and hits almost 2-3 times as much as Icy Touch.
B) Missed attacks refund runes, simply redo blood strikes, as you can see that they've missed prior to the GCD finishing.
C) Misses only create a significant dps loss when you miss with a KM'd OB or FS.