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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BhozEoI-Bloodhoof View Post
    • (Holy) Priest(s) are designed around a full uptime of the chakra states.
    I do believe we, as a class(specà, are balanced around always having a Chakra up for our total healing. But I don't think each individual spell is. A Prayer of Healing in Serenity (or no Chakra) is the baseline. In Sanctuary the extra healing is a bonus.
    And I like having Chakra be able to fall off. It leads to interesting moments where you can't cast the right spell to refresh it and need to make choices, and this feels (to me) more meaningful than other choices we have to make. I know this is personal opinion, but the Chakra mechanic as it works right now (or the 30/30 one) was one of the things that I thought made Holy Priests fun and unique.
    Retired Holy Priest
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  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral nevermore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    It leads to interesting moments where you can't cast the right spell
    That's roughly as interesting as sticking a fork in my eye to be fair. No offense inteded.

    Being a raiding resto druid throughout TBC, this was basically the mantra of the whole specc and oh boy it was "fun"!

  3. #43
    I'm not understanding all the hate for the new change to Chakra either. You still can, and have to, select the proper Chakra state you want to be in. There is no change there. If anything, I think this change will make it more interesting and engaging for me because now I will remove my '/cast Chakra' line from my PoH mouseover macro. I would guess many priests macroed "Chakra" to their PoM and PoH spells in order to maximize uptime and deal with the annoying refresh requirement. Now I can go back to simply activating the one I want, when I want, and the silly refresh requirement is eliminated. Not sure how this ruins anyones challenge of healing as a holy priest.

  4. #44
    Because, Aliahna, most of us actually stretched out the cooldown to see if we needed to change or not, a by-product of the 30/30 implementation and it shows who actually spec'd state of mind, instead of "omg, 30 sec cooldown 30 sec duration why would I want to waste talent points?"

    9 times out of ten these were the same people that said it's too clunky and they need/deserve a stance mechanic.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Because, Aliahna, most of us actually stretched out the cooldown to see if we needed to change or not, a by-product of the 30/30 implementation and it shows who actually spec'd state of mind, instead of "omg, 30 sec cooldown 30 sec duration why would I want to waste talent points?"

    9 times out of ten these were the same people that said it's too clunky and they need/deserve a stance mechanic.
    I will readily admit that I have at most ever had one talent point in State of Mind, and since the latest change have none. I just didn't find the need to change Chakras more frequently that often. Also, it could be that I am 100% of the time assigned to raid healing when I'm holy in my 25 man raids and it's a given that I want to be in Sanctuary so the refresh requirement was just something I "dealt" with not something that I actually enjoyed. If you enjoyed having to make a choice between staying in AoE chakra and switching every 30 seconds that's cool, it just wasn't something I felt added to my enjoyment of the spec.

    P.S. In 5 mans I used to really enjoy the original Chakra iteration, and I've never called it clunky for the record.
    Last edited by Aliahna; 2011-03-10 at 05:32 PM.

  6. #46
    The added duration of State of Mind helped the original iteration, so you didn't have to force a refresh. No one here is really calling the 60/30 any good, because it was absolutely terrible (okay, at least the added trigger spells were cool). We're calling Blizzard caving in on good design, and now just giving up... more or less.

    60/30 is terrible and we were hoping they'd come to realize and fix it. Instead, they just gave up. Granted, it's better than 60/30, but... you know?
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  7. #47
    Every cloud has a silver lining. Moving away from the original 30/30 chakra has allowed us to free up 2 points from state of mind. These two extra points combined with the excess mana regen from 4 piece and 372 gear have made a Holy Archangel build feel a lot more viable for me.

    Holy Archangel is definitely still situational, but for fights where there is are periods of light damage mixed in with periods of very heavy damage, and you have time to smite, it is great (For example, I find that it is really good on Maloriak, but not good on Al'Akir). +15% healing for every 18 seconds / 30 seconds on top of Holy's passive +15% healing and AOE chakra's +15% AOE healing is just really powerful.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    9 times out of ten these were the same people that said it's too clunky and they need/deserve a stance mechanic.
    Not quite. saying something is 9 times out of 10 doesn't make it so just because you say it. When stating things like this you should really have some kind of factual representation of what you're saying.

    Some of us spec'd into the old state of mind because we could sustain a chakra state as long as we so chose (sounds like a stance to me). With the new change why spec into it? I have other places to put those talent points for my playstyle.

    The stance system makes a lot of sense to me personally. Pick a stance... if you pick the wrong one you have to wait for the cooldown to switch again (or go to a non-chakra state by canceling the state). Nothing has changed there. There is still cost involved with picking the wrong "state"

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Evrx View Post
    Every cloud has a silver lining. Moving away from the original 30/30 chakra has allowed us to free up 2 points from state of mind. These two extra points combined with the excess mana regen from 4 piece and 372 gear have made a Holy Archangel build feel a lot more viable for me.
    After playing around a bit, and writing a few different macro's to play around with how to Smite as Holy, I can say that this could potentially be a "good" thing. I'll give you that.

    Archangel is really the best cooldown we as a class have.
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  10. #50
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    The 30/30 was only better in the sense that with 2 points in State of Mind, you could control Chakra a little better. But how often could you not predict what type of damage was incoming? The thing is, if you are in Sanctuary, and a tank healer dies, are you really gimped in tank healing? Sure, a little. Serenity is nice, the crit bonuses are nice. But are you telling me that a priest couldn't keep a tank up for, at worst, 30 seconds in the Sanctuary chakra?

    No, thats not the case. The reality is, 30/30 did allow a priest a wee bit more flexibilty. But even then, if you finally decided to just go ahead refresh chakra, and then the tank died--or you needed to raid heal, whatever--you were still fucked.

    My point is, 30/30 was really no better than the unlimited state we are getting now. In fact, if anything, you no longer have to worry about squeezing out those extra heals sometimes at the sake of extending your chakra. Now you can rest easy that if you have to switch chakras, you can, all the while still healing in whatever state is best at the moment. The mere fact that we don't have to refresh chakra actually benefits us more in that chakra will always be ready to switch into...unless, of course, the aforementioned scenario occurs where you switched chakras and then unexpected things happened to the raid. You would be fucked either way.

    In conclusion, 30/30 was probably a tad bit funner, but only from the sense that it made healing a bit more of a challenge. Overall, however, the unlimited state allows me to shift that tiny part of my focus elsewhere, and squeeze an extra GCD every so often. I don't see what the big fuss is about.

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Because, Aliahna, most of us actually stretched out the cooldown to see if we needed to change or not, a by-product of the 30/30 implementation and it shows who actually spec'd state of mind, instead of "omg, 30 sec cooldown 30 sec duration why would I want to waste talent points?"

    9 times out of ten these were the same people that said it's too clunky and they need/deserve a stance mechanic.
    But we haven't been able to stretch the bufftime for quite some time now. I remember when that implementation first came out and it was buggy. My PoH would get extended by 4 secs for every player it hit (nice). That was great but then it was "fixed" and instead of me choosing to cast the most appropriate spell for the situation I had to spam the "extender" spells in a losing game where the seconds would always tick down faster than I could keep refreshing them with a piddly little 2 or 4 seconds using a spell that takes 2.5-3 to cast. And of course that was back when I was barely in gear that qualified me to enter heroic dungeons and I had no spare mana to just "extend" unless it was Serenity and all I did was heal 1 target. No, I didn't enjoy those days. They are long gone. I seriously doubt that mechanic will ever come back, and I don't think it belongs in a discussion of the 4.1 Holy Priest any way (respectfully speaking).

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I'm sad about this change (and even the 1min addition) due to the unique nature that Chakra was. I enjoyed the 30/30 with SoM.

    P.S. Kel, I miss the stickys

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    P.S. Kel, I miss the stickys
    Yeah, me too
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  14. #54
    High Overlord Hybred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post

    Archangel is really the best cooldown we as a class have.
    Key missing note: Situational.
    Last edited by Hybred; 2011-03-11 at 10:13 AM.

  15. #55
    So I was fiddling around with the 4.1 PTR, trying to see if there were any other changes, when I noticed that I couldn't target the Lightwell with /tar Lightwell. Sure we lost the ability to *Left* click the Lightwell a patch or so ago to "target" it, probably due to more complaints of accidentally targeting it by baddies. But that was the only way to see how many "charges" were left on the Lightwell. I also sometimes forced my target to Lightwell so I could just hit my "interact" button to get a charge or to focus it so I could easily track it via my focus target. Now there is no way of knowing how many charges are left, and a lot of the tricks to making Lightwell easier to use by targeting it and adding it to your raid frames or favorite add-on (Healbot) don't seem to work. Not liking this change.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybred View Post
    Key missing note: Situational.
    That's true. But I mean, the only other cooldowns we have are Lightwell (which I'm not sure you can count as a "cooldown" per se), Guardian Spirit, and Divine lolHymn.

    And in the raid healing paradigm, that "situational" cooldown of Archangel has a more significant impact in those "Oh shit" moments than Divine Hymn does... if you can use it.
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  17. #57
    Hey, maybe they will change State of Mind to read: "Reduces the cooldown on Divine Hymn by 2.5/5 minutes"?

    It would finally be worth speccing into.

  18. #58
    And unlike Tranquility, they won't have to nerf Divine Hymn to be balanced around its 3 minute cooldown!

    Except... Discipline could use it more than Holy could.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    And unlike Tranquility, they won't have to nerf Divine Hymn to be balanced around its 3 minute cooldown!

    Except... Discipline could use it more than Holy could.
    Or how about this, leave disc with the 8 minute cooldown but let all ticks of Divine Hymn proc Divine Aegis (like PoH). That could be interesting.

  20. #60
    Make it a 5 minute cooldown for Discipline if the aegis base is 30%.

    If the tech could potentially allow a 50% base Aegis, double dipping on crit of course, I could potentially see it sticking with its 8 minute iteration.
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