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  1. #1

    Fix disc absorb issue, not the damage healing...

    Ok first of I am not dissing those who like the deal damage and do autohealing aspect of disc.
    If you like it then fine.

    I however thinks it's stupid and boring. I play disc as an healing spec with lots of absorb and mitigation tools and that is also what the spec has been about traditionally for the last few years.
    So why oh why Blizzard do you work on the bloody attonement/evengelism stuff when PW:S mechanics is what really need some love and fixing

    Maybe I am just frustrated but I can't be the only one feeling this.

  2. #2
    While I too think, that the absorb mechanics need some work I really like atonement and I don't see why people think the changes done to atoment took time away from changing the absorb mechanics.

    I think they generally aren't sure yet what to do with absorbs. The poblem is that absorbs are very strong, IF they get used before they expire which makes them very difficult to balance with classic healing.
    Take PoH for example. If we get to use the shielding and the healing part of the spell at the same time it is very stong. If we only get use out of one of them it is weak. If we had the option to convert shields into direct healing if we so wish difference would be smaller.

    Lately I think it would be interesting to have PoH convert all previous DA into additional direct healing (leaving the DA of the last PoH on the targets), With this change we would be able to adequately heal groups back up and not waste as much potential if we do it directly after the damage instead of waiting and trying to get the DA last until the next big AoE hits (which would normally result in uneasienes and healing from other healers before the time is right for us to use PoH).

  3. #3
    Go to World of Logs and check out 25m heroic healing meters. Multiple discs are in the top 10 on almost every single boss. Nearly all of them just spammed PW:Shield the entire time and did 2x more healing then the other healers in raid. That's a problem.

    Gotta remember too...most of these healers doing this are in the top 25m heroic progression guilds. They often have GMs watching them raid. When the GMs see these types of crazy numbers, they make note of it and call for the nerfs.

  4. #4
    I thought they'd all be going OOM from doing that by now. Didn't they try to nerf shield spam with higher mana cost?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by noctoz View Post
    Ok first of I am not dissing those who like the deal damage and do autohealing aspect of disc.
    If you like it then fine.

    I however thinks it's stupid and boring. I play disc as an healing spec with lots of absorb and mitigation tools and that is also what the spec has been about traditionally for the last few years.
    So why oh why Blizzard do you work on the bloody attonement/evengelism stuff when PW:S mechanics is what really need some love and fixing

    Maybe I am just frustrated but I can't be the only one feeling this.
    I for one hope they work on both. It's really fun to mix up shields with smites and such, and with the work on attonement/evangelism, it should be even more fun.

    PS.: when doing some dungeons and spamming smite and nothing else pretty much all the time is definitely not much fun (spamming 1 spell never is), but when you have to mix it up it really becomes interesting.
    Last edited by zox; 2011-03-10 at 03:58 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Diabeetus View Post
    I thought they'd all be going OOM from doing that by now. Didn't they try to nerf shield spam with higher mana cost?
    Exactly! I don´t get how they still manage to keep that up, and even more so, I hate the fact that it´s us so called "casual" Raiders, who cant get a billion Innervates and MTT, that obviously suffer the most from these changes

    Sorry, I entered a QQ mode there, luckily I get 540 Spirit for 10 seconds everytime I do it! Sadly my QQ has a 12 second Cooldown when not Glyphed! If only there was some way, maybe a...State? I could be in, for the entire time to get 540 Spirit untill cancelled!

    Again, I apologize!

  7. #7
    If you look at those log dates, however, most of them are from before the hotfix, and hell even Maloriak still has TiduZ's Holy Bubble Spam (from the Body and Soul hotfix) as #2-3.

    Discipline's capability to bubble-spam isn't up to the point it was before. And they don't want it to be. 1-button spam breaks their ideology of what healing should be like, in Cataclysm.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  8. #8
    People already have been saying it over and over again that one of the core problems with the Disc absorb style is that our mastery only affects two spells: DA and PW:S. And not counting PoH DA, we only got 1 spell that's not subject to RNG which makes it unreliable since absorption relies on being able to predict incoming damage.

    I think that the best way to fix Disc absorb-healing (since they keep on nerfing PW:S and PW:B on ptr) is to make another damage prevention spell. On that note, it got me thinking, shields aren't the only way to prevent damage--there's also straight up damage reduction (Inspiration, Pain Suppression, PW:B). So, how about putting that concept to our signature healing spell - Penance?

    My idea is as follows: Making Penance apply a stacking damage reduction buff for a maximum of 3 stacks and lasts 10 seconds (in line with Penance cd for non Atonement+ToT builds). The buff would then reduce the next incoming damage by a %, and further increased by out mastery. With each damage taken, it consumes 1 stack of the buff. So ideally, this would mean that Disc Priests would have to think about how to use this spell. Since any next hit would consume a stack, it would be wasted when applied against DoTs, damage aura mechanics, etc. On the other hand, it would be a life saver against burst damage such as Magmatron flamethrower, etc.

  9. #9
    I think there is a "easy" way to solve this. Make PW:S 50% Absorb, 50% Healing. No more pre-shielding, it will have much less HPS if the target is already at full health. It fixes the "problem" about shields only having a 15 seconds duration (with raid-healing in mind), and doesn't fuck up tank-healing, since we always overheal tanks anyway. (Much like the current Glyph works, but instead replace that with something that boosts the Absorb or Healing part.) Now give a PoH/CoH-like absorb ability with a 10-15 second cooldown, and we're good to go.

    Edit: As I read my suggestion again, I really liked the idea of a PoH/CoH-like absorb ability. It'll remove the problem of carpet-bombing the raid with shields too. Limit it too 3-6 targets, with the same amount of absorb as a CoH/PoH?
    Last edited by Zealic; 2011-03-10 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #10
    I really think that they need to rework mastery completely for the spec, maybe something like holy's mastery. But instead of a hot, it could be an absorb.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tomehere View Post
    I really think that they need to rework mastery completely for the spec, maybe something like holy's mastery. But instead of a hot, it could be an absorb.
    They already have one of those; it's called Illuminated Healing, and it belongs to Holy Paladins.
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  12. #12
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    disc is kind of like the red headed step child your neighbor adopted...everyone says they love it, but everyone knows its not theirs
    Posts like this aren't helping anything -- Kel
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-03-10 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #13
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    Spec around atonement then. I don't spec into atonement or arch-angel for my Disc spec. There are ways around it and you just have to be creative.

    Also, you're complaining about them fixing Disc but you can't honestly say that not having HF be hit capped when they want you to use it for extra healing isn't broken. Discipline, non-atonement, is just fine right now. If you care to elaborate on how you thing Disc isn't good right now that would be helpful.
    Retired Holy/Disc Priest: Summer of 2011

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmealpoet View Post
    Go to World of Logs and check out 25m heroic healing meters. Multiple discs are in the top 10 on almost every single boss. Nearly all of them just spammed PW:Shield the entire time and did 2x more healing then the other healers in raid. That's a problem.

    Gotta remember too...most of these healers doing this are in the top 25m heroic progression guilds. They often have GMs watching them raid. When the GMs see these types of crazy numbers, they make note of it and call for the nerfs.
    Shield spam is for idiots and requires zero knowledge of the class. It needs to go away forever.

  15. #15
    I feel like we need a bubble on cooldown that we want to use as soon as it comes up. Penance is our only heal on a short cooldown at the moment and doesn't feel all that gamebreaking, we need something like circle of healing or holy shock that we want to keep on cooldown 95% of the time.

  16. #16
    Wonderful idea to throw out there. As fun as Penance may be, I've always liked to keep it handy for pocket heals and not something I would keep on cooldown all the time. This is one of the reasons I'm disappointed that our 4pc t11 set basically forces us to keep Penance on cooldown.

  17. #17
    I remember a blue post when they announced the new talent trees, that atonement healing was not intended to be raid viable except maybe on a few encounters.
    But this change is only natural, since HF and Smite both are the only real difference of single target DPS spells from shadow single target DPS spells. It is well deserved for the players that use this kind of healing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesco View Post
    I remember a blue post when they announced the new talent trees, that atonement healing was not intended to be raid viable except maybe on a few encounters.
    But this change is only natural, since HF and Smite both are the only real difference of single target DPS spells from shadow single target DPS spells. It is well deserved for the players that use this kind of healing.
    With the exception of Mind Soothe (lol) and Mind Control, each spell in our spellbook is used for one reason or another in raid content.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    With the exception of Mind Soothe (lol) and Mind Control, each spell in our spellbook is used for one reason or another in raid content.
    You forgot Mind Vision. I've never used that one in a raid. Hell, I think I only used that a few times while leveling just to see what it did. LOL

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliahna View Post
    You forgot Mind Vision. I've never used that one in a raid. Hell, I think I only used that a few times while leveling just to see what it did. LOL
    Nah, when we were still doing normal Halfus (before we had the "What drakes are up this week" thread idea), we could use Mind Vision to cheat and figure it out ahead of time.

    But, it's still useful for "Where the hell is <x person who just zoned in from death>" Great way to cure boredom, waiting for the slow pokes to get back to the group.

    I use it in PvP too, but that's beyond context.
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