Anyone know if 359 Tier Helm and Shoulders will still require tokens after patch...

[Deleted]

Raiding gear is used so that people can complete raids. Without raiding gear, completing raids is not possible (or at least extremely difficult). Heroics can be completed in blues. If all you are doing is heroics, why is it imperative for you to get raiding gear?

Its a legitimate question to ask. Why do you want the gear? Personally, I get enjoyment from playing the game. I need the gear to play the parts of the game I enjoy effectively. Gear is a tool used to enjoy the game. I, personally, am baffled by people who seem to derive all their enjoyment from the gear they wear. It seems a very weak reason to play the game at all.

Were did i say that (notice the Bolded part)? I want the shoulders at least, to get my 4 piece set bonus (like everyone else that doesn't raid, i'm guessing), isn't that enough?

And if the content is "old" why so srss about it? If you raid and get gear, good for you. I don't raid and i want to get gear aswell (and since it's "old", who cares anyways?).

You guys take the game too serious, relax.

[Sobegreen]

It'll likely be available in non heroic form costing JP. The heroic form will cost VP and a new tier up will be created costing VP + Token. Might not be 4.2 but its possible. The same thing was done with T9. I'm all for it because it helps people coming in late in the game to get decent gear. More decent geared players makes the game a lot more fun. Raids are for the challenge of beating boss mechanics not getting drops.

[nilnar]

Were did i say that (notice the Bolded part)? I want the shoulders at least, to get my 4 piece set bonus (like everyone else that doesn't raid, i'm guessing), isn't that enough?

And if the content is "old" why so srss about it? If you raid and get gear, good for you. I don't raid and i want to get gear aswell (and since it's "old", who cares anyways?).

You guys take the game too serious, relax.

I'm not responding any more seriously than you are. You still aren't answering the question though. Why do you need the 4set bonus? I genuinely can't figure out why you would play a game just to get gear in said game.

[Quag]

Just a thought to consider.

Forget about deserving or not deserving gear and remove all the elitest arguments. One of the reasons, I think that Blizz has changed its philosophy about gear and obtaining it over the years is that they realise that only a very small proportion of their playerbase actually sees all the content, and they want to make it more accessable to people as they progress the story on.

They will never allow you to simply purchase all raiding gear, for example when firelands hits they wont suddenly add Lady Sinestra's loot table to the points vender or anything like that, and its because they still like the idea of people raiding older content.

As has been pointed out, people who dont raid have extrememly easy access to current raiding gear, two weeks of dailies and you will have a piece of T12, maybe even less. However i like the idea that blizz at least forces players to actually see some bosses to get some gear. Regardless if someone is a good raider, bad raider, casual or hardcore, if you see someone wearing T11 shoulders you know they have seen cho gal, their helm Nef etc.

Even tho it would be nice in one sense to reroll a new toon, powerlevel it to 85 in a week and grind heroics for a few days and be fully raid geared! that isnt how blizz designs the game and they dont want that sort of thing to happen. Its ok to get nice entry raiding gear on new toons but if you want a full raiding set you should at some point be required to step into a raid imo.

[phungui]

Raiding gear is used so that people can complete raids. Without raiding gear, completing raids is not possible (or at least extremely difficult). Heroics can be completed in blues. If all you are doing is heroics, why is it imperative for you to get raiding gear?

Its a legitimate question to ask. Why do you want the gear? Personally, I get enjoyment from playing the game. I need the gear to play the parts of the game I enjoy effectively. Gear is a tool used to enjoy the game. I, personally, am baffled by people who seem to derive all their enjoyment from the gear they wear. It seems a very weak reason to play the game at all.

Many folks like to collect gear, like they collect pets, or other such nonsense, if one were enjoying the content, I don't see why they would be bothered to worry about why others want gear. : \ stwange..

This whole thread is borderline communism, people suck

[Deleted]

I'm not responding any more seriously than you are. You still aren't answering the question though. Why do you need the 4set bonus? I genuinely can't figure out why you would play a game just to get gear in said game.

So, saying that i want the set bonus isn't answering? Hmm, something is not right on your side mate.

I want the set bonus, well... Because i do? I don't need to justify myself to you, i want the set bonus and that's it.

I like to be good on what i do, and just because i dont raid, doesn't mean i dont diserve gear. Even though i only run Heroic Dungeons and the weekly Baradin Hold, i like to be on top of my game and have the best gear available for me, enchants, gems, etc.

You can check my armory and bash my gems and enchant choices if you like. And yes, i want T11 to be free of Tokens, just because i think i diserve it, i pay the game like you.

And like i said before, the gear is "old", get over it, you will get shinny new purples to overcome the casuals with free epix, don't worry.

[Deleted]

After the badge changes in 4.2 it will be pretty much like that hakai. Especially after nerfing heroics like they did. I think they should include some indication when someone got tier gear before such changes. Like put a star next to the name or something. So people can be recognized for getting it the legit way.

you elitist prick, who gives a fuck if someone gets T11 easy, you'll be on T12 by then...

[Deleted]

I'm not responding any more seriously than you are. You still aren't answering the question though. Why do you need the 4set bonus? I genuinely can't figure out why you would play a game just to get gear in said game.

Also, i never said i was playing WoW to get gear.

L2read.

On a side trolling note: UMAD?

[Fornaw]

Were did i say that (notice the Bolded part)? I want the shoulders at least, to get my 4 piece set bonus (like everyone else that doesn't raid, i'm guessing), isn't that enough?

And if the content is "old" why so srss about it? If you raid and get gear, good for you. I don't raid and i want to get gear aswell (and since it's "old", who cares anyways?).

You guys take the game too serious, relax.

The reason tier sets were originally created was to make collecting them fun. The challenge was killing the bosses where the piece you needed dropped, the reward was activating that new set bonus. Up until ToC having a 4 set meant you were nearly clearing the content associated to that tier. I personally hope Blizzard leaves the tokens alone.

Why should anyone care about an old 4-set? Why do you care about an old 4-set? You think it would be cool to get, but the cool things in this game require effort. There's no argument that the 4-set is overkill for someone who isn't intending to raid, the 2-set is overkill for someone who isn't intending to raid. How much overkill is enough, where should the line be drawn? Can't the people who put in the effort get something lasting to show for it?

[Silentshank]

i can see why ppl will want to be able to get the 4 set but at the same time you will be able to get epics with the 2 new 5 mans and if u think about it. when ppl started with the current raids they didnt have 2 sets or 4 sets.

[Deleted]

imo they need to make a new server type, raiding, and put vendors in all the normal server that sell ALL gear for a reasonable gold price. make raiding servers devoid of the welfare systems and designed to accommodate the old school players and the new school ones who have the same mind set. it would be the best of all worlds, all the qq its to hard ppl will have there wotlk back and the rest of us can have our bc back =)

Why would you want the gear if you are not raiding? and people who raid wont go to the raiding server because no matter what they say mostly everyone is lazy and will take the gear for gold. Raiding isnt about the gear its about being in a huge fight with 9/24 other people and feeling the accomplishment of finally after lots of tries downing a boss. If you are raiding for gear to show off then you are doing it wrong.

[nilnar]

Also, i never said i was playing WoW to get gear.

L2read.

"I want the set bonus, well... Because i do"

Sure seems like you are. I'm not sure why you're taking it so personally, I really don't care if you get it or not. I was just asking why you want it (Because you do. Right), because, as I said, it baffles me.

[Kalcheus]

I don't have time to raid regularly, and I want to look like I'm wearing a dead murloc, dammit!

It's not my fault Blizzard made T11 Hunter gear so awesome.

(Seriously. I'm a-keeping my T11 forevah)

[Exera]

Yeah, I have my 4set, was just hoping not to see a repeated of T9, T10.

Not because I'm some elitist ass or anything, it's just I disliked how Tier became free to everyone really. They also had Sanc Tokens though etc, so Idk o.o

You cant compare it to T10 though, if you remember T10 had 3 different version 251(which was for badges), 264(which was for tokens and stayed that way all through ICC) and 277(which was also from tokens only and also stayed like that all through ICC).

Actually so was it with T9 the best version was only obtainable through doing the actual raids.

[Sprinky]

Personally I hope they do bring the helm and shoulders to the justice vendor. I can understand why top tier raiders dont understand us non raiders wanting to gear up, but that doesnt mean we dont need to. For me gearing up characters is the only thing that keeps me playing, I dont raid anymore but I would like to get my characters to full non raid BiS because its enjoyable. I also dont want to fall too far behind in gear level incase one day I decide to start raiding again.

As correctly stated it makes absolutely no difference to people who will be raiding firelands anyway as they will have firelands epics to stand around feeling special in. If anything its actually beneficial to the top raiding guilds as it means if they want to they can gear up their alts easier if they want to bring in extras of a certain class for a boss.

People have a funny way of looking at things on one hand saying that people should earn their epics by raiding, then on the other hand saying how easy it will be to steamroll said raids (Easier than farming 5 mans for hours? Yes I think so)

[EddingtonLol]

Uhh..In wrath they made the tokens purchasable too, remember?

[TheOne]

"Some people don't care about the glory. Some people just want to watch the world burn."

This is how I play the game. What it means to me is, some people don't care about how you did something or when you did something. Some people just want to destroy stuff. Anything beyond that (achievements, gear, etc.), is just a bonus. To me. Before the flamefest erupts, I will say I am a full time raider (5 nights a week, 4 hours a night). Have been for a number of years now. I have my "Defender of a Shattered World" title. Even done a couple of hard mode fights (which I care nothing about and skip out on most of the time).

Having said that I am in support of people getting tokens a couple of patches down the road. Who cares if they do when you're 2 tiers of gear down the road.

The elitism in this thread (and others), along with the awful, horrible, terrible community that WoW has are the reasons I only log in at raid time and log out as soon as raid is over. Just bought my last WoW time card ever.

[Cute Chen]

After the badge changes in 4.2 it will be pretty much like that hakai. Especially after nerfing heroics like they did. I think they should include some indication when someone got tier gear before such changes. Like put a star next to the name or something. So people can be recognized for getting it the legit way.

Ya, it would be awesome to feel like you're in kindergarten again, wouldn't it?

I think the issue here is whether or not the game designers want new players or new characters to visit old raids to get geared up for whatever new content there is. All actions they have made in the past 2-3 years indicate no. They have already decided to make current heroic farming obsolete with the re-release of Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman. I don't doubt for a minute that they will add a heroic or two along with Firelands so we can get entry level epics for Tier 12.

[Fendris Malarky]

But T9 and T10 were Frost/triumph badges only, you didnt need tokens at all until heroic versions if I am remembering correctly.

You do not remember correctly, there were three tiers of gear in tier 9 and 10. 232/245/259 tierc9 and 251/264/277 tier 10. Only the 232 tier 9 and 251 tier 10 were available through badges alone and it took quite some time to get them.

You could only obtain 251 tier 10 outside of ICC by weeks of dungeon grinding. Most people obtained it by raiding ICC anyways until the content was pointless at the very end of wrath after 4.0 pre patch hit.

Tier 9 also required you to actually raid for the most part before ICC was released. For one, it took quite a while to get a piece of 232 tier 9 at first and another it was more worth it to spend your first badges on the non-tier badge gear (same with ICC in fact) and save up for your 245 tier 9. TOTC was also easy as hell. So if you were gearing up with 232 tier 9 by dungeons alone you must have really sucked.