1. #1

    Help with Ret valor priority

    So I am having a little trouble choosing what I should get next with my valor points. My first item was the LtS just for a quick dps boost. So now I can either go the Tier route or get something like both the Ring/Relic. So I was wondering how important the 2set/4set is.

    My guild is 7/12 currently so if the Tier is bonus it worth getting what should I get first.

    I appreciate any criticism to my gear/reforge/gems.

    Thank you,

    Traphik - Borean Tundra

  2. #2
    2 set first, legs and chest is prob the best choice

    do pvp, in 2 weeks u can get teh vicious gloves which is quite a nice boost in damage since cs is one of ur top 3 damage, if possible, try getting 4 set w/o using the gloves but depends on ur guild progression, but yeah, 4 set is good to get

  3. #3
    Tier is your best bet. Legs/Chest/Hands are your priority. Buy the chest first, followed by legs, and then hands. Urge your guild to gogogo so you can get shoulders/head to to get 4 piece.

    There is a serious lack of plate DPS helms so the helm is going to be the hardest bit to replace without going tier. There is one boss that drops a helm that is TECHNICALLY a tanking helm, but ONLY because the socket bonus is 45 stamina. That is the only reason. It is totally acceptable to use it for DPS, otherwise. But if you're like me (an obsessive compulsion to have matching gear), then getting the shoulders WILL NOT HURT. Having BOTH shoulders AND helm will NOT hurt. In fact, I recommend it in case you need to trade out trinkets for certain fights.

    You can get non-tier shoulders from Halfius and a ring from V&T. Heart of Rage is a super nice trinket that drops off Chimaeron. A really nice weapon drops from Magmaw and he should be on farm anyway. Don't buy the little things until you have tier because that is a bigger upgrade and a better solution rather than going for quick DPS boosts. As a ret paladin, I can promise you that if your DPS is lacking it is not gear, it is you. You should still be doing fairly fucking well after that 2 piece tier.

    Don't waste your time buying PvP gear for PvE.
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  4. #4
    well not entirely true

    helm + gloves pvp (365) is quite good if u dont have access to a lot of bosses
    tier chest and legs from vendor and halfus shoulders would be a good setup

  5. #5
    The Patient monkeyelf's Avatar
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    Chest and leg tier gear is your priority. At the moment, you should not worry about the tier gloves, and instead try and get the vicious gloves from pvp. The pvp gloves are BiS pre heroic raid gear because of the 5% increase to CS. You won't replace them until you get the 372 tier gloves while having the heroic halfus shoulders to switch out as your offset piece (assuming you don't waste too much of the expertise at which point the crit/haste dps helm 372 version is the best offset piece). Point being, ignore Willelm telling you to not "waste your time" getting PvP gear for PvE, as it's the best option out there for you atm.

    After getting chest and legs it really depends on what your other slots look like. The relic isn't a bad choice; it's BiS, it's just a matter of whether or not other things are larger upgrades. Potentially the trinket, but again it depends on what your current trinkets are.

  6. #6
    Thanks for all of the advice I would love some more opinions. The reason I asked about Tier is I currently have the 359 Crafted Chest pl8 and I just got 359 Terrastra Legs but currently have 346 helm, shoulders, and hands. We are at chogall but lack a class to slow and dps the adds. we should be downing *artramedes* tonight. I have the dps usually im comepeting for top dmg with our guild mage who is in tier. I have an annoying habit with numbers and things being perfect so that is why im seeking the advice. Thank you to everyone who posted.

    *Spell check*

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-13 at 07:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyelf View Post
    Chest and leg tier gear is your priority. At the moment, you should not worry about the tier gloves, and instead try and get the vicious gloves from pvp. The pvp gloves are BiS pre heroic raid gear because of the 5% increase to CS. You won't replace them until you get the 372 tier gloves while having the heroic halfus shoulders to switch out as your offset piece (assuming you don't waste too much of the expertise at which point the crit/haste dps helm 372 version is the best offset piece). Point being, ignore Willelm telling you to not "waste your time" getting PvP gear for PvE, as it's the best option out there for you atm.



    After getting chest and legs it really depends on what your other slots look like. The relic isn't a bad choice; it's BiS, it's just a matter of whether or not other things are larger upgrades. Potentially the trinket, but again it depends on what your current trinkets are.
    I have LtS and the TB trink I was thinking about the valor ring and possibly buying the epic 359 ring but since I have alot of suggestions to make Tier my priority I guess that will be first.

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-13 at 07:08 AM ----------

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/borean-tundra/traphik/advanced

    If you could take a look at my gear i'm still hesitant because I have the 359 non-tier chest/legs and the tier 2set bonus wouldn't be in "effect" right away. I would need 4400 valor for both legs an chest. I have enough for 1 now at like 2400

  7. #7
    The Patient monkeyelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
    Hurricane vs. Avalanche
    I received some definitive data on what can proc Hurricane (thank you, kilroggphara). Modeling it as a PPM mechanic where the melee and spell versions can proc separately (and simultaneously) I get the equivalent of a bit more than 55% effective uptime on a single buff (slightly above Redcape's current model of 50%). This is higher than the 44% actually provided by the single 9 minute run kilroggphara provided.

    So, quite probably overvaluing it to about a 55% up time we wind up with an average of about 250 haste for Hurricane.

    Avalanche is around 260 DPS in my spreadsheet, but only about 230 DPS to Redcape. I'll use his lower value.

    So with Hurricane at 250 Haste (or less) and Avalanche at 230 DPS (or more) you would need each point of haste to be worth .92 DPS for them to break even. Also using Redcape to give haste the most valuation, in his estimated average raiding gear a single point of haste is worth about .38 DPS. This leaves Hurricane at 95 DPS to Avalanche's 230 DPS.

    The OP is updated with this DPS comparison evaluation.

    Result: Hurricane is worth about 1/2 the DPS of Avalanche. Until crystals become readily available and Landslide becomes more reasonable for the price, Avalanche is the go-to interim enchant.
    You said you'd take comments about gear; the above quoted post explains how avalanche > hurricane for dps. Other than that, keep doing what you're doing.

    And it's gotta hurt to have everyone telling you to replace some of your best pieces of gear, but I promise you it will be worth it in the end .

  8. #8
    I suppose it really depends if you're looking towards a BiS set. If your intention is to aim for the 4pc bonus(which it's still very debateable if it's worth it), then you'll be going for helm/chest/gloves/legs with the shoulders from Halfus. If you're not concerned with 4pc and you don't foresee Nef coming down anytime soon, there is a helm from Cho'gall that's pretty nice(Helm of Maddening Whispers).

    I'll save you the wall of text on details of things that aren't directly pertaining to what you're asking. For valor points spend, do chest/legs/gloves. I'd even try holding off on legs/gloves as long as possible and run BH every week. 25m is possible, with no other Ret Paladins =) 6 pieces per 25 > 2 pieces per 10.
    D3 - Aggs 60 Barbarian | Paladin | Warlock | Shaman | Death Knight | Warrior |

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyelf View Post
    You said you'd take comments about gear; the above quoted post explains how avalanche > hurricane for dps. Other than that, keep doing what you're doing.

    And it's gotta hurt to have everyone telling you to replace some of your best pieces of gear, but I promise you it will be worth it in the end .
    Already got the mats will have when the guild enchanter gets on. I have Hurricane because one of the EliJerks ret pally guides said Hurr>Ava and that was all I could find number wise (It listed dps for both but he did say they needed to be checked).

    Thank you

  10. #10
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaj View Post
    well not entirely true

    helm + gloves pvp (365) is quite good if u dont have access to a lot of bosses
    tier chest and legs from vendor and halfus shoulders would be a good setup
    The 365 PvP helm is crap, actually. The 346 helm from Vanessa Vancleef in heroic Deadmines is considerably better using current stat weights, and that's BEFORE reforging any of the haste to mastery. The gloves are saved purely by the 5% increase to Crusader Strike damage, don't think for a second that the additional strength on the helm makes up for the wasted resilience.

    And, just to make this abundantly clear:

    Relevant stat weights:
    Strength = 227
    Mastery = 101
    Crit = 96
    Haste = 80
    Hit = 174

    Stonemason's Helm (Deadmines heroic - Vanessa Vancleef):
    242 strength + 20 from gem + 30 from socket bonus = 292 strength * 227 = 66284
    142 Crit * 96 = 13632
    202 Haste * 80 = 16160
    20 Hit * 174 = 3480
    Total = 66284 + 13632 + 16160 + 3480 = 99556

    Anomuran Helm:
    242 Strength + 40 from gem = 282 Strength * 227 = 64014
    162 Crit * 96 = 15552
    182 Mastery * 101 = 18382
    Total = 64014 + 15552 + 18382 = 97948

    Vicious Gladiator's Scaled Helm:
    301 Strength + 40 from gem = 341 Strength * 227 = 77407
    181 Mastery * 101 = 18281
    Total = 77407 + 18281 = 95668

    As you can see, the PvP helm comes out worst of all. The helm from Vanessa Vancleef comes out top, and because it has our two worst ratings (haste and crit) also gains considerably more through reforging than the other two.

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-13 at 02:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grissym View Post
    I suppose it really depends if you're looking towards a BiS set. If your intention is to aim for the 4pc bonus(which it's still very debateable if it's worth it), then you'll be going for helm/chest/gloves/legs with the shoulders from Halfus.
    There's no debate as to whether or not 4T11 is worth it that I know of. The last estimate for its worth is somewhere in the region of a 3.5% DPS gain - I highly doubt you'll get more than that by trading one T11 item for a non-set item.

    Also, depending on trinkets (ie. Heart of Rage) and weapon (ie. anything other than Ashkandi), the T11 shoulders and the helm from Cho'gall may be the better choice, depending on exactly how much expertise you have on other items of gear. That's very much a digression from the point of this thread, though.

  11. #11
    The Patient monkeyelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardolan View Post
    The 365 PvP helm is crap, actually. The 346 helm from Vanessa Vancleef in heroic Deadmines is considerably better using current stat weights, and that's BEFORE reforging any of the haste to mastery. The gloves are saved purely by the 5% increase to Crusader Strike damage, don't think for a second that the additional strength on the helm makes up for the wasted resilience.

    And, just to make this abundantly clear:

    Relevant stat weights:
    Strength = 227
    Mastery = 101
    Crit = 96
    Haste = 80
    Hit = 174

    Stonemason's Helm (Deadmines heroic - Vanessa Vancleef):
    242 strength + 20 from gem + 30 from socket bonus = 292 strength * 227 = 66284
    142 Crit * 96 = 13632
    202 Haste * 80 = 16160
    20 Hit * 174 = 3480
    Total = 66284 + 13632 + 16160 + 3480 = 99556

    Anomuran Helm:
    242 Strength + 40 from gem = 282 Strength * 227 = 64014
    162 Crit * 96 = 15552
    182 Mastery * 101 = 18382
    Total = 64014 + 15552 + 18382 = 97948

    Vicious Gladiator's Scaled Helm:
    301 Strength + 40 from gem = 341 Strength * 227 = 77407
    181 Mastery * 101 = 18281
    Total = 77407 + 18281 = 95668

    As you can see, the PvP helm comes out worst of all. The helm from Vanessa Vancleef comes out top, and because it has our two worst ratings (haste and crit) also gains considerably more through reforging than the other two.
    Except since you're already using the PvP gloves because of the 5% crusader strike damage, you have to add another 70 str to the helm because of the two piece set bonus. 70*227=15890 putting the 365 PvP helm at 111558; ahead by a very wide margin.

    Edit: I'm not going to try and argue that PvP helm > tier helm with 4 piece bonus, because it's not; however it is better than any heroic dungeon helm while you're using the gloves, which you should be.
    Last edited by monkeyelf; 2011-03-13 at 02:58 PM.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyelf View Post
    Except since you're already using the PvP gloves because of the 5% crusader strike damage, you have to add another 70 str to the helm because of the two piece set bonus. 70*227=15890 putting the 365 PvP helm at 111558; ahead by a very wide margin.

    Edit: I'm not going to try and argue that PvP helm > tier helm with 4 piece bonus, because it's not; however it is better than any heroic dungeon helm while you're using the gloves, which you should be.
    Good point, I'd forgotten about the new bonuses on PvP gear. In that case, buy the gloves first, then the helm since that only becomes better when it's the second piece. Whenever you drop the gloves, also drop the helm, because almost any 346+ PvE DPS helm should be superior.

    So, when should you stop using the gloves? Whenever you can make either of the T11 bonuses only by using the T11 gloves - without buying them in the case of 2T11, but including buying them in the case of 4T11.

  13. #13
    The Patient monkeyelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardolan View Post
    So, when should you stop using the gloves? Whenever you can make either of the T11 bonuses only by using the T11 gloves - without buying them in the case of 2T11, but including buying them in the case of 4T11.
    4 piece tier bonus > gloves; use them if you don't have access to both shoulders/helm, but they are the best offset piece in the 5 slots. You stop using them when you have 372 gloves and offset pieces available. At that point, your offset piece should be either shoulders from halfus, or if too much of that exp is wasted (which it isn't too hard to not waste much due to reforging) the crit/haste helm off of Cho becomes the best offset piece. Note that this isn't the mastery/expertise helm from maloriak because it runs into the same problem as the shoulders; expertise rating.

    Edit: If you picked up gloves in say BH, and they'll give you 2 piece bonus, only use them until you can get the third piece from VP or BH; once you have both legs and chest, switch back to PvP gloves.

  14. #14
    One thing is I have never pvp'd arena wise before so I have no way of getting the conquest unless I did the bg daily which would take weeks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Traphik View Post
    One thing is I have never pvp'd arena wise before so I have no way of getting the conquest unless I did the bg daily which would take weeks.
    you only need 5 wins per week for the conquest cap;
    just get a 2nd dd, pop wings and try to burst someone down, there will always be 0 resil teams <500 rating

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozzna View Post
    you only need 5 wins per week for the conquest cap;
    just get a 2nd dd, pop wings and try to burst someone down, there will always be 0 resil teams <500 rating
    its really funny how some team are terrible.. My partner at the start was only using the pvp blue pants (now has 2 piece and the pvp staff), but people were focusing me when was clearly in pve gear when i was in 4 pieces we did not have a pvp trinket either. We won 8 match in a row against those kind of player until we ended up on some mage/priest team in full epic gear (wth). I did not have my spec made up too, i was using the normal pve one lol..

    At this point its starting to be hard though :/
    Last edited by Nienniora; 2011-03-14 at 10:20 AM.

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