1. #1

    Shadowpriest Simcraft/Stat Weighs

    I was doing some simcrafts on my shadow priest (Cascade - Windrunner) and was getting some surprising results.

    My stat weighs were as follows:
    Intellect: 1
    Crit: 0.39
    Haste: 0.315
    Mastery: 0.305

    I found this strange, seeing as how only several days ago haste and crit were in the opposite positions. Is anyone else at high gear levels simming crit well above haste?
    Follow up question, has anyone tested reforging/enchanting to a crit build?

    Thanks!!

    Edit: I also was selecting 1 add and helter skelter fight style since I felt this was more in keeping with the current raid bosses
    Last edited by cascade1; 2011-03-14 at 10:09 AM. Reason: additional info

  2. #2
    i don't see how this could be correct

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Morv View Post
    i don't see how this could be correct
    I provided my toons name and server so people could verify it with simulationcraft

  4. #4
    Just tossed it into maxdps.com for a quick check and there you get the following, where haste is still over crit:

    (+) 10 Intellect: 13.76
    (+) 10 Spirit: 8.60
    (+) 10 Hit Rating: 8.60
    (+) 10 Crit Rating: 5.27
    (+) 10 Haste Rating: 5.84
    (+) 10 Mastery Rating: 4.79
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  5. #5
    Have you tried to set infinitemana=1 ? - Perhaps crit is simming higher due to the fact it's a manaresource

  6. #6
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.
    A lightbulb went off in my head from this comment. The haste plateaus for VT are at 10%, 30%, 50%, etc. As I gazed at my character screen I realized I was sitting at 30.1% haste. And, as the next major haste plateau is unachievable would it be safe to say I should stop stacking haste for now?

    Even without reaching a haste plateau, haste is certainly not a worthless stat. Moreover, Im wondering is my simcraft accurate that I should prioritize crit now over haste

  8. #8
    Haste is still your best secondary stat until GCD capped. Dont gem/gear for a "haste plateau"

  9. #9
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.
    There is no such thing as a haste plateau for Shadow Priest. The only class that has a haste plateau they want to reach, is Destro locks (gaining another Immolate increases Conflagrate dmg by A LOT).

    Haste works exactly how u explain mastery. THe more u have, the better. Every single point of haste u have, decreases the time between your dot ticks, decreases the time between your mind flay ticks, and decreases your MB/VT cast time. Getting one additional tick doesn't matter for Shadow priests, as u are refreshing your dots anyway (resets the duration of the DoT, but DOES NOT reset the tick interval). The only time when one additional tick matters for Shadow, is when u are Multidotting so many mobs that u dont have time to refresh all of them before they expire, which is usually only on trash. The only boss where this can happen, is Ascendant Council phase 2.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.
    Tosh.

    SC figures more movement in a helter skelter fight, therefore you're haste has slighty less value in terms of faster casting MF's & GCD's reset.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.

    Veeeery wrong. "Haste plateaus" are a very minor DPS increase, haste is powerful regardless of them. Whether extra 200 haste gets you 1 more tick or not is not important at all, what is important is that it will make all your dots tick faster. Crit sims higher because it's a mana stat due to Shadow fiend - but tell me, are you even close to going oom on any fights? Only fight that can even remotely put me in the realm of possibility of having mana issues is Magmaw, everything else is completely stable on my mana bar. You can safely add infinite_mana=1 into overrides and sim again for real values.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for it is that it's not illegal to express."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    Haste wins in value but only in plateaus, which is its only valuable to have enough haste to reach an extra tick on a certain dot, but between those specific numbers it has almost no value. This could explain your stat weights moving around.

    I dont have hard numbers but for explanations sake lets say at every 200 haste rating all your dots get one extra tick. Its only beneficial to have 200, or 400. Having 399 would have the same value as having 200. Mastery benefits linearly though, so its just a flat out 'the more you have the better' pretty much the same for crit but only until you reach a certain level.
    This is almost exactly the opposite while haste gains are non linear and do fluctate below and above haste "plateaus" it will still always out weigh every other secondary stat (mastery/crit)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Veeeery wrong. "Haste plateaus" are a very minor DPS increase, haste is powerful regardless of them. Whether extra 200 haste gets you 1 more tick or not is not important at all, what is important is that it will make all your dots tick faster. Crit sims higher because it's a mana stat due to Shadow fiend - but tell me, are you even close to going oom on any fights? Only fight that can even remotely put me in the realm of possibility of having mana issues is Magmaw, everything else is completely stable on my mana bar. You can safely add infinite_mana=1 into overrides and sim again for real values.
    You tried Heroic Maloriak yet? Yea, multidotting 5 targets for about 3 minutes (over 2 black phases) hurts your mana.

    Otherwise, the haste "plateaus" are larger dps increases over other random amounts of haste, but all haste is valuble and worth going for. The plateaus are not insignificant, but they aren't worth stopping gearing for haste after you reach one.

    Shadow Priest Main
    Originally Posted by Zarhym
    Your post is so drenched in frustration and sarcasm that it's really ruining my salad.

  14. #14
    Are mastery gains completely linear or do you have to reach a new point of mastery? Im asking because when I gain a small amount of mastery the percentage my dot damage increases is still shown on the tooltip to be unchanged. Although maybe they just don't show the decimals.

    Thanks

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Abb View Post
    You tried Heroic Maloriak yet? Yea, multidotting 5 targets for about 3 minutes (over 2 black phases) hurts your mana.

    Otherwise, the haste "plateaus" are larger dps increases over other random amounts of haste, but all haste is valuble and worth going for. The plateaus are not insignificant, but they aren't worth stopping gearing for haste after you reach one.
    We all know haste is valuable by now. I don't think the issue is so much if there is a point where we stop stacking it (there shouldn't be at the moment) but if we should or shouldn't be sacrificing other stats for haste.

    Take me for example:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oulia/advanced
    (nevermind the 2p pvp gear setup I have that I was testing last night vs blue pve gear)

    My neck choice here I based on reaching the next VT plateau (2589) so I used http://www.wowhead.com/item=56300 or http://www.wowhead.com/item=68176 over the rep neck http://www.wowhead.com/item=62416.

    If there was no consideration for the haste plateau, then I made the wrong choice as the 359 neck has more Int and the secondary stats are (presumably higher PP then ilvl the 346 haste necks.) But because I value the time gained between having to refresh VT (I think it's ~2 GCDs) which allows for higher DPS (due to being able to fit another spell or two in) I feel the sacrifice in stats make up for it. This, imo, is the what haste plateaus are really about.
    Last edited by Solia; 2011-03-14 at 05:14 PM.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abb View Post
    You tried Heroic Maloriak yet? Yea, multidotting 5 targets for about 3 minutes (over 2 black phases) hurts your mana.

    Otherwise, the haste "plateaus" are larger dps increases over other random amounts of haste, but all haste is valuble and worth going for. The plateaus are not insignificant, but they aren't worth stopping gearing for haste after you reach one.
    Yes, I did - tho I had to heal it so no expertise from shadow PoV so far. Hopefully out healers will attend tonight and that will change. ;P

    I agree on the point tho, as do all shadows with a spoonful of experience I guess.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for it is that it's not illegal to express."

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