Cold snap in arena

[Swizzle]

Not every class can dispel.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:40 AM ----------

It's hard to avoid it when you are frozen in place for it to go off anyway, it is an annoying thing, it's like a rogues stun lock.

Make it so all mage snares share a diminishing return just like rogue stuns now do, it's far to have SOME opening for someone who can't dispel and avoid everything all the time.

Not every class can dispel? Pretty sure that's why Arenas and BGs let you group with 1-39 other people, hopefully you would have been smart enough to pick up someone who can cover your weaknesses.

Putting snares on DR along with the roots already on DR? Sure, give melee classes 100% up time on a clothy, I like your thinking.

[Fichek]

Not every class can dispel.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:40 AM ----------

It's hard to avoid it when you are frozen in place for it to go off anyway, it is an annoying thing, it's like a rogues stun lock.

Make it so all mage snares share a diminishing return just like rogue stuns now do, it's far to have SOME opening for someone who can't dispel and avoid everything all the time.

1v1 and 2v2 will never be balanced. And if you don't have a dispeller in 3s, i have no idea what that setup might look like :/

[Sanctify]

Mages being overpowered lol.. I recall the horrors of pvping in BC.


..........

[Minky]

Yet both have better passive damage reduction that can't be dispelled. Once Ice Barrier is gone, what does the Mage have to lower incoming damage while being focused?

If you remove Cold Snap, take out Preparation, Glyph of Preparation, and Readiness while you're at it.

3 Novas a blink mage ward and IBlock.

I'm all for the removal of Cold Snap, Prep, and Readiness. Balance the CDs on it not existing.

[Swizzle]

3 Novas a blink mage ward and IBlock.

I'm all for the removal of Cold Snap, Prep, and Readiness. Balance the CDs on it not existing.

I'm...I'm just...I don't even know what game people play anymore.

[Zamfix]

You have to realize there is a double standard when it comes to PvP: one for the developers' pet classes, and one for everyone else. Mages obviously fall into the first category, hence why they get multiple talents and abilities on short cooldowns that would be considered OP if another class had only one of them on a 3 minute cooldown. It's the reason frost mages get all their snares, roots, that none of them share a CD, that they don't have to worry about being interrupted, that they have one of the best interrupts in the game themselves, they get a pet, they get mirror images, they get all manner of shields, they have insane burst, and just when you think you've had it all, they use cold snap and start all over again.

PvP in this game is a complete joke.

Yes, because every Blizzard developer plays a mage. Not one of them play any other class, they all play a mage. And a paladin. And a DK. And a hunter. And a warrior. And a warlock. And a priest. And a shaman. And a rogue. And a druid.

[Griffmstr]

I'm...I'm just...I don't even know what game people play anymore.

I agree with the person before you. Cold snap in arenas is too much. Just the same with preparation and readiness. Almost as stupid as allowing heroism.

[Auro]

Take it you've never seen or played a moonkin in arenas.

Or an ele shaman/warlock/spriest/etc.... the list goes on. Every caster has it harder than a mage to get away from melee.

Nobody else in the game has a "get out of stun free" card except mage's blink.

[klaps_05]

double ring of frost doesnt work(although i like the fear that it creates in the opponents team thinking "O MA GOSH I CANT STEP ANYWER"). also as people mentioned mages are being trained 9 otta 10 times. considering how they are nerfing kiting even more(barier nova proc + cone / no more double rof and sheep sharing dr) id say make cold snap on a 3min cd and bring FOF proc to 3 charges.

they nerfed kiting, they nerfed the dmg, our barrier still holds CRAP dmg(like what? 14-15k ? with glyph? at level freaking 85? ice barrier is there since like....DAY ONE and it hasnt been revamped), sheep cast time bazilion seconds, gl landing cc or presure at high levels in 3s

[Swizzle]

I agree with the person before you. Cold snap in arenas is too much. Just the same with preparation and readiness. Almost as stupid as allowing heroism.

Those tools are necessary for those specs to be viable. If you remove those CD resets, then you basically have to halve the length of the CDs and compensate by buffing defenses through other means. What people don't realize is that those specs are balanced around having them, it's not like they went, "Okay, this tree is balanced as is...TOSS IN A COOLDOWN RESET CAUSE IMA HERP". No, they put those in with the design and balance intent of having them. Now, I don't remember about Readiness or Preparation, but I know that Cold Snap has been in the Frost tree since forever.

Basically, here's what would happen if folks such as yourself had their way.

Rogues:
-Vanish CD 45 seconds
-Dismantle 30 second CD

Mages
-Ice Block CD 1 minute
-Ice Barrier CD 20 seconds
-Ice Veins CD 1 minute
-Summon Water Elemental CD 1 minute (personally the CD on the thing is pretty damn stupid to begin with)
-Ice Barrier 30% dispel resist
-RoF CD 1 minute

CD resets are there for a reason and are taken into consideration when balancing.

[spandex]

have you guys ever played above 1800? without cold snap mages would be roadkill, and I like the skill involved in deciding when to pop cold snap for another ring of frost or something and leave yourself with 1 iceblock, reminds me of my warrior cooldowns (reck, retal, shieldwall) sharing icds

mages, get your act together, because saying stuff like "wat u mean u no like ring of frost, dont walk in it lololo" makes me think you just plop it down in some irrelevant location on the map and try to kite someone into it. use ring of frost around a pillar or trap someone inside one so they can wait it out or roll the dice and jump. try ROFing someone out of a sheep or your partner's cc for extra credit, the spell is definitely powerful

I'll refrain judgement about all the dispel arguments though my healer usually has a hard time keeping me out of novas and whatnot vs a mage team due to the control most teams can throw on your healer, but I imagine it would be a nightmare playing a mage vs double dispel teams where you have to cross control the dispellers or be useless

[Spurmwhale]

He guys what do you think about cold snap in arena?

i personaly think they should fix this because 2 times ring of frost in arena Cmon?
mages allready have so many ability's to freeze people and control them.

let me know what you guys think of it.

you rogue right?

any other class saying this maybe.. but rogue?

/facepalm

[Minky]

Those tools are necessary for those specs to be viable. If you remove those CD resets, then you basically have to halve the length of the CDs and compensate by buffing defenses through other means. What people don't realize is that those specs are balanced around having them, it's not like they went, "Okay, this tree is balanced as is...TOSS IN A COOLDOWN RESET CAUSE IMA HERP". No, they put those in with the design and balance intent of having them. Now, I don't remember about Readiness or Preparation, but I know that Cold Snap has been in the Frost tree since forever.

Basically, here's what would happen if folks such as yourself had their way.

Rogues:
-Vanish CD 45 seconds
-Dismantle 30 second CD

Mages
-Ice Block CD 1 minute
-Ice Barrier CD 30 seconds
-Ice Veins CD 1 minute
-Summon Water Elemental CD 1 minute (personally the CD on the thing is pretty damn stupid to begin with)
-Ice Barrier 30% dispel resist
-RoF CD 1 minute

CD resets are there for a reason and are taken into consideration when balancing.

I think the point flew waaay over your head.
I do think they should be balanced around there not being a metagamey cooldown reset cooldown for any class/spec..
Rage all you want about it being an "integral part of the game", but I think the entire mechanic needs to be reworked.

And personally, without CD resets:
Smoke Bomb:3 mins
Evasion: 3 mins; can dodge from all sides (Lol sup latency/server countering Evasion)
Dismantle:1min
Sprint:1m
Vanish:1m

Ice Block: 1.5min, not dispellable, less of a duration
Ice Barrier:30s
Icy Veins:1.5min
Ring of Frost: 3 mins

The reason CD Resets are metagamey is that they're talented and thus the spec with them are usually the dominant ones in PvP. Maybe for other reasons beside the reset, but the reset is absolutely a big reason.

[Swizzle]

Wait, you want to remove the CD reset, but increase the CD of current abilities? Don't think I like the sound of that. They've been there for a long time, and they've been balanced around already (say hello to your old friend Hypothermia). They don't make or break games, and if they are...well, then you literally got out played.

I'll speak for Mages specifically here. CS is not the reason Frost out performs Fire and Arcane, it's the efficiency and control it has over the others, same reason Affliction out performs Destro, and Disc outperforms Holy. Look at Fire: completely dispellable damage, weak peels, dispellable escape, terrible mana control. Now, look at Arcane: 3 damaging spells in its school which falls in the same school as the CC, terribly prone to lock outs, a mana hog, non-existant offense, dispellable defense. There is never a time I'm playing either spec thinking, golly, I wish I could get my CDs back.

It's a mixture of design and other class design, but that's how the metagame goes. Stealth Rock is a necessity in Ubers and OU in Pokemon, so people play around that and take it into consideration when planning and balancing, same goes here. It literally comes down to a L2P issue, and a L2stoppostingeverycomplaintthatcomestoyourmindaboutanythingthatpossiblybeatsyouontheforums .

[Deleted]

Cold Snap, just like Preparation, shouldn't exist.

Shorter cooldowns on important abilities are a better way to go.

[Swizzle]

Can someone actually give a reason as to why they shouldn't exist, other than just saying that they shouldn't?

[Deleted]

-Summon Water Elemental CD 1 minute (personally the CD on the thing is pretty damn stupid to begin with)

No way. That's the most stupid thing I ever read in quite some days.
If that thing dies, it dies. It's not like it's running around with 5hp.

[Deleted]

double disengage in arena cmon?
hunters alrdy have so many slows/roots.

[sulmith greysin]

No offense mate, but mages atm are having a lot of trouble with staying alive against melee cleaves. Nerfing them now would be stupid.

that's because the best players play what is the best at the moment, they don't stick to anything that isn't at the top of the pile, they epitomize FOTMers

[Naraga]

Mages are allready a weak class in arena, they don't need any nerfs.