Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Holy priest - Nefarian (10N) - low heal throughput and OOM in P2

    Hello,

    we are working on Nefarian 10N recently.

    Toward the end of phase two, i am running completely out of mana. But even while i am out of mana - my healing throughput (skada, world of logs) is lower than of the two other healers we have in raid and i feel its subpar.

    Can you please give me some tips, advices, whats wrong information? Also can you please tell me what should I (and if applicable what the others in raid) improve?


    Log from last night:
    sorry - cant link as a new user so please add w w w . w o r l d o f l o g s . c o m without the spaces to the begining of this:
    Code:
    /reports/inlrkyeqyn5ps07x/analyze/hd/source/?enc=bosses&boss=41376

    Profile:
    sorry cant link as a new user so please add e u . b a t t l e . n e t without spaces to the beginning of this:
    Code:
    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/wildhammer/chantico/advanced

    We use 3 healers, 2 tanks, 2 add kiters in phase one.
    In phase 1 im healing the 2 add kiters (hunter+mage, or laser-chic+mage in older log). Druid is healing DK tank (Onyxia) (warrior in older log), and paladin is healing pala tank (Nefarian).
    We kill Onyxia around Nef being 78%.

    In phase 2 i am on the platform with 3 other people (DK,hunter and laser-chic) i use lightwell there. (other platforms are hpala+lock+rogue and Rdruid+pala+mage). While we are on the platforms - my aoe heals feel not enough to keep my platform alive (stable) - forcing me to use greater heal in this phase which leaves me completely OOM at the end of the phase.

    We try to completely avoid electric crack in phase 2 - and enter phase 3 with Nef being 71%.
    At this point im almost completely out of mana (unless i get inervate in the process).

    I feel lots of my mana is lost in the p1 on the 2 cracs, and rest is lost on the platform heal. Can you give me some advices, pointers here - what to do to be able to continue healing after that point (expecting quite long p3) and to improve my healing throughput ?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Prediator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    63
    No clue why you are using two kiters in first phase. You could use just one kiter instead of two, for instance mage or dk which is way better imo.
    You should dps nefarian down to 72-71% on first phase, just watch out onyxias energy. Use aura mastery, cooldowns and other stuff on crackles.
    By myself(druid tank), I use barkskin on first crackle and survival instict on 2nd.
    Phase two, just dps adds down asap. I dont think you can afford a crackle on phase 2.
    Do not use greater heals if not needed, and make sure your platform friends are really pressing your lightwell.
    I hope this information helped a little bit at least.

  3. #3
    Make friends with your boomkin.
    Convice him to innervate you.
    Problem solved.

    'nuff joking. Remember to not stress, holy priests have the best combat regen atm. Ask your pillar friends to use cooldowns while you stand still and do what-not to get your mana going.

  4. #4
    I've been stuck solo healing a platform of a good 7-8 people myself (h pally went to the wrong one) the lightwell. make sure they use it after crackles and when first getting up there. Get everyone in a group and spamming POH will keep them up (stacking mastery and the glyph = easy)

    I attempt to go in at full, or near full, sometimes chugging a concentration pot if we've had some problems with bad turning of ony and the such, or if tank heals weren't up to par.

    I end the phase empty, but with my shadowfiend and hymn of hope and arcane torrent i'm popped right back up there and have np healing phase three.

    Good lcuk

  5. #5
    High Overlord Bombpanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Secret Factory in the Himalayan Mountains
    Posts
    164
    I holy priest this fight, and occasionally run into your same problem, but not all the time.

    Nef's Shadowflame Barrage does not hit everyone in the raid, so there is a bit of RNG involved there. The fact you are on the platform with 4 people makes things a bit more tough as well.

    During our Phase 1, I heal our Add Kiter (a Frost DK who turns on Blood Pressence) then run back in after the adds are down and I am the primary raid healer.

    During Phase 2, my Primary Heal is Binding Heal since I'm usually getting hit each and every time, Greater Heal with 2 Stacks of Serediptiy because it's a big heal with a low mana cost that way, then during the rare occasions the damage is light on my platform I use Heal. All of this is in Chakra State: Serenity and getting off one Crackle in Phase 2

    For your case, however, it may benefit you to have your RL place everyone on your platform in the same group as you so that you can take advantage of PoH and CoH more often. Depending on your current mana regen, It may benefit you to conserve any/all mana regen cooldowns you may have until mid-half way through phase 2. Shadowfiend and Jar of Ancient Remedies (if you have it) and Arcane Torrent (if you're BE) should all be used in that phase.

    If the damage on the 4-person platform is too much for your mana, You may also want to ask to be moved to a 3-person platform, if it is possible.

    Hope that helps.
    I value knowledge, logic, and deceit. At my best, I am brilliant and progressive. At my worst, I am treacherous and cold.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elune
    Posts
    996
    First off, I agree with Prediator that you do not need two kiters. Having an extra DPS will shorten Phase 1, which leaves you entering Phase 2 with more mana. Also, as a Holy Priest, you will probably usually run Chakra: Sanctuary, but with only 3-4 people on your platform, you'll probably find Chakra: Serenity more useful, particularly if you're not eating a Crackle. Being able to use that Chakra to roll Renews through everyone will help a lot with conserving your mana, allowing you to use a lot more Heals than GHs. Also make sure you keep PoM on CD and, of course, have a Lightwell out. Finally, make sure you use SF+HoH either at the end of Phase 1, which you ought to be able to do after recovering from the second Crackle and before the transition; this is particularly important since you don't have a Mana Tide as you'll definitely need it again in Phase 3.

  7. #7
    I did this as holy with only 4 or 5 epics and didn't have mana issues at all. Have you got a resto shammy? That will help.

    Regardless heres an idea;
    Phase 1 - Tank healing in Serenity using mainly heal/Gheal rolling renews, with prayer of healings on crakle
    Phase 2 - Still serenity - roll renews, keep PoM up and use CoH on cooldown if needed.
    Phase 3 - Use your SF + mana hymn here at the start - i would probably be on 30 / 40% mana by this point so this will get u to full mana for this phase. Use the AoE chakra - simple stuff - just Prayer / CoH your raid ; tank doesn't take much damage here. Don't bother with that AoE heal ground thing ( why am i so bad with spell names ) ... way too much mana for the benefit here on 10 man.

  8. #8
    I know crackles were an issue for our raid group (2 Rsham and 1 druid healing), so most of us acquired the mastery/resist trinket from Tol Barad.
    It isn't available for -every- crackle, but it sure helped our mana stay up as we were learning the fight, and even now that we've been getting it down, it's nothing to sneeze at.

  9. #9
    Have you consistently been unable to heal through this? I've had problems from time to time, but in general nobody outright dies. There also is some RNG aspects to the fight with regard to how many times your platform can get targeted by a barrage.

    Make sure your platform is getting out of the lava quickly, don't be afraid to abuse Binding Heal, use Lightwell, and make sure you know why people die if they die. If they have 10 stacks of lava, or a blast wave snuck out, it's not your fault.

  10. #10
    Glyph lightwell, throw it down immediately at the beginning of the fight by nef group and it should be up shortly into p2. If people are using it for one crackle it should help alleviate alot of your mana issues. If you are really burning alot of mana in p1 you can probably get an early SF and then have it up again shortly into p3. You can probably time a conc. potion immediately after the first crackle in p3 if you communicate it with your other healers.

    16 attempts and 2 binding heals total. After a crackle just poh each group once for full effect on mastery/glyph, coh before/after if its really needed. In 10m I didnt find the healing per mana of sanctuary to really be worth casting, especially if you're ever forced to move cause of fire (I assume you're using it in p3 though I didnt look at the log thoroughly.)

    For p2 Try to maintain the group using pom bouncing, lightwell, and chakra serenity. Heal 2 people and binding heal the third to keep all 4 renews rolling and if you practice this you shouldnt really need much filler besides maybe a poh/coh combo after a crackle in p2, or a gheal for someone who got a bad string of shadowbolts from nef. If you really are having mana issues get an innervate from the druid, but your gear seems sufficient (I'd change the zen dream emerald into a purified in your gloves though). It doesn't look like you're getting a second shadowfiend in from the logs just checking a few of the longer attempts, but I would reccomend using the first early so you're able to get a second in p3, unless you're entering p2 with full mana. Keep in mind for one of the crackles in p3 you can also have the boomkin help alleviate the damage a bit with a tranquility. Didnt look at the dps on your platform but you never used a healthrock during the fight, its small but it would be a bit of healing you can save mana from as well.
    Last edited by Docta; 2011-03-15 at 03:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Koilie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    <vodka> on Stormrage US
    Posts
    469
    Couple things I noticed after going over your logs. I looked at your best attempts. Your resto druid isn't using Barkskin enough/at all. Should be using it for every elctrocute that it's up for. 1m CD 20% DR. Same with your holy paladin. Not using Divine protection. He should have it glyphed so it reduces magic damage by 40% and be using it every Elec that its up. Also 1m CD. Your rogue seems to be using his cloak but he should be using Feint for every elec that cloak is not up. You can also try running in Inner Will stance if you are not already. Track your renew better and use HW:Serenity more. Avoid letting renew's fall as recasting it cost mana you have no need to spend. Especially in p2. Keep your group renewed and use SSerenity and Heal to keep the same renews for the whole phase. Cast bigger heals as needed.

    ANd time Lightwell so that it can be up for p2. Also train your guild mates to use the damn thing. Your healing from lightwell was horrid. You should be glyphing it and every charge should be used up before p2 ends. I have healed this fight as holy on my second priest in similar gear level to you and I spend p2 jackin my dick and casting cheap heal to roll my renews.

    Regarding p3. Someone mentioned running Sanctuary for p3. It's not entirely needed as there is no raid damage between elecs unless you let fire or adds get to nef. You can top off easily before the next one while keeping your tank up with rolling renew and cheapo heals.

    Save your Divine Hymns/Tranquility and your prot pally Divine Guardian for times in p3 where you might be pushing elecs faster than you can top off. Such as during lust.

    Again cause it's important. Train your members to click lightwell. Beat it into their dense skulls if you must. I did halfus 10 heroic a couple weeks ago as holy on my alt priest and had my shdow gear on accidentally which has about half the regen of my heal gear and spent about 1/3 of the fight oom but still did 11k+ hps cause lightwell carrried me! lol WoL

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullblod View Post
    Make friends with your boomkin.
    Convice him to innervate you.
    Problem solved.

    'nuff joking. Remember to not stress, holy priests have the best combat regen atm. Ask your pillar friends to use cooldowns while you stand still and do what-not to get your mana going.
    Holy Priest Spec has the worst mana regen of any class in the game right now it's none existent even with a 3054 Combat mana regeneration lv its totally none existent. All the other classes can regenerate their man it doesn't matter how they get the mana they can, where Priests cannot even using their totally insane 5,6 and 8 minute cool downs.

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,404
    Roll renews on everyone by using the serenity chakra, should solve most of your problems.
    When I did this fight the first time I regened mana in p2 and my gear wasn't any good at the time even.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Oathanvil View Post
    Holy Priest Spec has the worst mana regen of any class in the game right now
    80% combat regen seems to think otherwise.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Oathanvil View Post
    Holy Priest Spec has the worst mana regen of any class in the game right now it's none existent even with a 3054 Combat mana regeneration lv its totally none existent. All the other classes can regenerate their man it doesn't matter how they get the mana they can, where Priests cannot even using their totally insane 5,6 and 8 minute cool downs.
    This couldn't be further from the truth. We have insane spirit regen, shadowfiend + hymn can get you an entire bar of mana back if used properly. If you're going OOM you're doing it wrong. The only time I could see an issue would be on some of the harder heroics if you have no resto shammys at all.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    677
    Quote Originally Posted by Oathanvil View Post
    Holy Priest Spec has the worst mana regen of any class in the game right now it's none existent even with a 3054 Combat mana regeneration lv its totally none existent. All the other classes can regenerate their man it doesn't matter how they get the mana they can, where Priests cannot even using their totally insane 5,6 and 8 minute cool downs.
    Holy priest has some of the best regen in the game. You don't know what you're talking about.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Lovin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    76
    Your group has a perfect healing set up to kill Nef. In my opinion to better your mana regen and making the raid overral better with heals it should be set up a different way. It really doesn't matter if the mage and hunter are controlling the adds because by the percentages that you give Nef is going down at the right percentages. The only thing I would change would be Phase 2 ... Instead of you having 4 total people on your platform. I would switch it to 3 people total. Have the druid or paladin take the 4 people on their platform. The reason that I would do it this way is for the simple fact that they spare more mana. Not only that ... they have great short term CDs. If the paladin knows how to heal and is a great healer he will barely run out of mana during phase 1 and phase 2. My recommendation is changing the healing assignment on phase 2.
    We have killed Neferian with a resto druid, a disc priest and myself a resto shaman. I got was the one stuck with 4 people on my platform for the simple fact of my chain heals and I had a prot paladin helping me heal with his holy radiance and word of glory. By the time we went into phase 3 ALL healers were about 50% mana.
    It's a long fight that will take up your mana ... but if you play it right and make the right moves on conserving mana you should do fine. On phase 1 you should only be healing the main kiter and only when crac comes. There shouldn't be any other instance that you should be healing in phase 1. I recommend telling all the range to stand in the middle of the room since the dragons have to be 60 yards apart. If everyone stacks in the middle all of your aoe heals would be able to get everyone to 60% for the 2nd crac before phase 2. You should be entering phase 2 with atleast 50% mana. If you are not doing this you aren't conserving your mana. Don't heal tanks because they have their designated healer. Just focus on kiters which this part is very shourt and on cracs only and you will see how you perserve your mana.
    Hope this helps.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Docta View Post
    80% combat regen seems to think otherwise.

    Add in the H tee tee P & colon slash slash to make a working link and you will see otherwise! A raid kill best heals and last for mana regen. Says I have not yet posted enough to make working links sorry.

    img684.imageshack.us/i/oom1.jpg

    img848.imageshack.us/i/oom3.jpg

    Last place at 5.2% so very bad.....the other classes were frolicking in mana so much of it in fact they were able to possibly assist me in raid healing that kill....

    I am sorry but from this Priest end when you see those numbers in recount for mana regen you know you are nerfed past nerfy nerf nerf!
    Last edited by Oathanvil; 2011-03-15 at 06:06 PM.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    677
    Quote Originally Posted by Oathanvil View Post
    Add in the H tee tee P & colon slash slash to make a working link and you will see otherwise! A raid kill best heals and last for mana regen. Says I have not yet posted enough to make working links sorry.

    img684.imageshack.us/i/oom1.jpg

    img848.imageshack.us/i/oom3.jpg
    Your screenshots change nothing. Holy priests have some of the best regen in the game. Recount doesn't tell the whole story, and everyone here knows it.

    I'm guessing you're just not very good at managing your regen cooldowns.

  20. #20
    High Overlord Mikayo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    164
    1. Try to avoid using Greater/Flash heals unless they are necessary. Binding heal is a much better alternative.

    2. Drop your lightwell in a visible area of your platform; glyph lightwell; add Lightwell Renew to grid so you can see who is actually clicking on your lightwell and when; yell at anyone on vent who isn't using it.

    3. Your boomkin shouldn't need his innervate so have him use it on you. Make a macro to remind him if needed. If he's concerned about his own mana, tell him to glyph innervate.

    4. Try to go into phase 2 with full or near full mana. I use my fiend after the second crackle (I use it again in phase 3).
    (Also, as several people have said already - using 1 kiter will shorten your phase 1 which will hopefully leave you with more mana going into phase 2)

    5. I believe it possible to heal phase 2 in either chakra state, but I have only ever done it using Serenity. Roll renews, PoM on cd, CoH, HW:Serenity on cd.
    Sanctuary never made sense for me because my platform-mates were never in the same group. If they are, however, compare Sanctuary (PoH + glyph, CoH, PoM on cd) with Serenity. You may find one is easier than the other for you.

    6. Try having your hpal or rdruid heal 4 instead of 3.

    7. I usually divine hymn towards the end of phase 2 after a crackle.

    This are just things that have helped me and most people have already mentioned.
    If anyone disagrees with something I've said, I'm not perfect and I've been known to be wrong ^.^

    Sidenote: I'm a 25M disc (most of the time) priest
    Kyx | Odyssey of Mug'thol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •