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  1. #41
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Fetishists and orientalists need to stop using real life tragedies to stoke their obsessions.
    Seriously, people need to listen to this guy. Stop making Japan out to be some holier-than-thou nation, they've got problems just like the rest of the world.

  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Seriously, people need to listen to this guy. Stop making Japan out to be some holier-than-thou nation, they've got problems just like the rest of the world.
    I'm often irritated by the rampant japanophilia myself, but in the end people can do what they want. Sure, people usually don't know what they're talking about when they rave about Japan - conveniently forgetting things like the Nanking massacre when they refer to the whole nation as some kind of symbol of ancient honour. However the culture definitely does have its merits, and they definitely did react with far more discipline and rationality than some of our western rabble who would climb over eachother in some blind panic to leave the city. There are a lot of respectable aspects of Japanese culture, but because of things like anime and such people just go batshit crazy for Japan and speak about it as the promised land without ever having stepped foot in the country.

    I hear it's almost the other way round in some parts of Asia though, where a lot of western stuff is copied etc. Then again I haven't got a clue what people in Asia generally think of the west, not that there would be a single unifying opinion for that subject.

  3. #43
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I hear it's almost the other way round in some parts of Asia though, where a lot of western stuff is copied etc. Then again I haven't got a clue what people in Asia generally think of the west, not that there would be a single unifying opinion for that subject.
    People are people everywhere. The disaster in Japan simply wasn't big enough to make them show it. Every nation will devolve to an "every man for themselves" attitude with the proper amount of danger. Its simply easier for the US to go that direction because American culture is much more individual-centric.

    Western values aren't being "copied" or "overwriting" traditional values. People are animals, it just takes different levels of pressure for us to admit it.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    People are people everywhere. The disaster in Japan simply wasn't big enough to make them show it. Every nation will devolve to an "every man for themselves" attitude with the proper amount of danger. Its simply easier for the US to go that direction because American culture is much more individual-centric.

    Western values aren't being "copied" or "overwriting" traditional values. People are animals, it just takes different levels of pressure for us to admit it.
    Whoa, I was talking about things like western fashion and food etc :P

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Yiskitt View Post
    My theory on that is that the people commit suicide because they feel they are unfit to live in society because their flaws have caused them to do something frowned upon. It seems like this society is just trying to make people as perfect as they possibly can, which has good intentions considering if everyone became selfless the world would progress so much faster. The big draw back is that when people make a significant mistake they feel like it is unredeemable. That is the only major flaw in Japanese society that I at least see.

    If people were "selfless" progress would grind to a halt. It is only through rational selfishness (called Objectivism) does the human race ever really get anywhere or become happy. Go and read some Ayn Rand. Japanese culture is about pushing people to be as good as they can be as fast as they can be. Individual successes are treasured because they give pride to the nation as a whole. But everyone is expected to pull their weight. America it seems, is losing sight of that quickly. Were all about entitlement, not actually working to get what we want.
    Parts of japanese culture are rough and too extreme but they are not nearly the same country they were 70 years ago when the slaughtering of Asia was happening. Am i a racist bigot because I am white and live in America? Are you going to say the slavery that happened 150 years ago is still on my shoulders and Im responsible for it? Of course not. Every country changes and the sins of our fathers do not become our sins.
    Last edited by Nightcloak; 2011-03-17 at 04:57 PM.

  6. #46
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    Whoa, I was talking about things like western fashion and food etc :P
    My mistake, I was under the impression you were saying that areas were copying western values and therefore they were closer to the US in times of great trouble than Japan.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    People are people everywhere. The disaster in Japan simply wasn't big enough to make them show it. Every nation will devolve to an "every man for themselves" attitude with the proper amount of danger. Its simply easier for the US to go that direction because American culture is much more individual-centric.

    Western values aren't being "copied" or "overwriting" traditional values. People are animals, it just takes different levels of pressure for us to admit it.
    People are not animals. You can take that idea back to the garbage where it belongs. We all have choices, which is what seperates us from the very animals you want to lump us in with. Dont make a broad generalization about all of humanity just to make yourself feel better about what you would choose to do in a situation like that.
    "I cant help it, were all just animals."
    Thats some of the same rationalization mass murderers, dictators, and all the rest of the world's garbage make.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightcloak View Post
    People are not animals. You can take that idea back to the garbage where it belongs. We all have choices, which is what seperates us from the very animals you want to lump us in with. Dont make a broad generalization about all of humanity just to make yourself feel better about what you would choose to do in a situation like that.
    "I cant help it, were all just animals."
    Thats some of the same rationalization mass murderers, dictators, and all the rest of the world's garbage make.
    So, are we minerals then?

    Just because we organize ourselves differently from other animal species, doesn't mean we are not animals ourselves. If it weren't for our animal natures, many of the ills you mention wouldn't happen. The only "difference" between us and the beasts is the fact that we like to sit around and act as tho we are better then the other life forms.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx View Post
    Blizzard is a conglomerate that through lower sub numbers has raised revenue. They're not stupid, they're just not catering to you.
    Yes yes, I know, the sky just bonked you on the head, casuals are taking over the government, and some baddie just got a raid drop... I think you'll live.

    http://darisdroppings.wordpress.com

  9. #49
    Dreadlord ryoukthebloodelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    I know Japanophiles have no real grasp of Japanese history, of the atrocities they've brought on their neighbors for centuries, but watching a bit of manga and having some hentai comics hidden under your mattress does not make you have anything near an educated view regarding the much-vaunted Japanese superiority.

    To this day they still treat Koreans and untouchables like dogs in Japan.

    In the aftermath of the 1923 Kanto earthquake, Japanese civilians banded together honorably and diligently....to slaughter Koreans who they blamed for bringing bad fortune and earthquakes to Japan. Between 2,500 and 6000 Koreans and Chinese were murdered.

    but don't mind me, this is a culture superior to every other one.

    ---------- Post added 2011-03-16 at 08:36 PM ----------

    At the end of the day, the fact there is no looting and order prevails has nothing to do with a pseudo-mythical Japanese superiority. It has to do with economics.

    Japan is homogeneous and wealthy. Hurricane Katrina turned into a quagmire because it hit a racially mixed region that was economically disadvantaged. This is even more true of Haiti. The people saying the Japanese are somehow better for their behavior are no different than those who point out Katrina and Haiti as a polemic against blacks.

    Race has nothing to do with it. Culture is only nominally related. There was a serious earthquake in New Zealand last month. Was there widespread chaos and looting? No.

    Fetishists and orientalists need to stop using real life tragedies to stoke their obsessions.
    I've read Flyboys i know exactly what they did in ww2 and i think most ppl just like the 1960's and on japan
    Ben Kenobi "This isn't the signature you are looking for."

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dariela View Post
    So, are we minerals then?

    Just because we organize ourselves differently from other animal species, doesn't mean we are not animals ourselves. If it weren't for our animal natures, many of the ills you mention wouldn't happen. The only "difference" between us and the beasts is the fact that we like to sit around and act as tho we are better then the other life forms.
    Act like it? I guess all of our technology and superior intellect and ability to reason and societal values are just a giant facade? Damn, youre right. Guess its alright to do whatever the hell I want since were all just animals, reasoning be damned.

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral Blackspur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koodledrum View Post
    Plus the whole Japanese way of life is built around honour, respect & manners. They have etiquette for absolutely everything so as to avoid appearing above their station or demeaning to others to the point where there's guidelines for paying for stuff at the store - that just doesn't sail anywhere else. I swear if half the civilised world took a page out of Japan's book the world would be a much better place for it.
    Jesus Christ, we arnt living the 1600's here people despite what you may think Japan is much like other developed countries, the reason they do not go bat shit crazy when disasters occur is the fact that they are used to them, definitely not on the scale but the principle is the same, you are all acting like the Japanese are in some way much "simpler" than the rest of the world.
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  12. #52
    Bloodsail Admiral Miss Unify's Avatar
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    I love Japan. Poor country :<

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightcloak View Post
    Act like it? I guess all of our technology and superior intellect and ability to reason and societal values are just a giant facade? Damn, youre right. Guess its alright to do whatever the hell I want since were all just animals, reasoning be damned.
    You assume that other animals do not have societal values, that our intellect is superior, and that our technology is a good thing.

    For all of our values, intellect, and technology, it seems that *WE* are the biggest problem this planet is facing. Hardly superior to the other species we share our DNA with by my counting.

    You can choose to ignore the obvious, that we are beasts like the rest of them, but realize that if you ignore it, you are far more likely to fall prey to it's pitfalls. Embrace the truth of what you are and you can make it work for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx View Post
    Blizzard is a conglomerate that through lower sub numbers has raised revenue. They're not stupid, they're just not catering to you.
    Yes yes, I know, the sky just bonked you on the head, casuals are taking over the government, and some baddie just got a raid drop... I think you'll live.

    http://darisdroppings.wordpress.com

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dariela View Post
    You assume that other animals do not have societal values, that our intellect is superior, and that our technology is a good thing.
    .
    How is his assumption wrong?

    And if our technology wasn't this advanced we'd be unable to f.ex. sustain as high population as we currently have. And if you really believed otherwise you wouldn't be sitting on a computer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    'Hardcore' raiders remind me of my two-year-old. "Yes, I put it down and I'm not playing with it anymore, but YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT MINE MINE MINE MINE!"

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariela View Post
    You assume that other animals do not have societal values, that our intellect is superior, and that our technology is a good thing.

    For all of our values, intellect, and technology, it seems that *WE* are the biggest problem this planet is facing. Hardly superior to the other species we share our DNA with by my counting.

    You can choose to ignore the obvious, that we are beasts like the rest of them, but realize that if you ignore it, you are far more likely to fall prey to it's pitfalls. Embrace the truth of what you are and you can make it work for you.
    I wasn't going to say anything, but you've kind of got me hooked in now. If you really think this way, go out and rape the first attractive girl you see, it doesn't even matter if she's underage as long as she can bear a child. That's nature's biological imperative, and as an animal you have no control over your own actions. After that, murder your adversaries, and claim their wealth as your own.

    Enough of this cop out bullshit, where we try to shed the responsibility we have for our own actions with excuses like "we're animals" and the oh-so overused phrase of "human nature". You have the power of choice, and while people who make bad choices come across as animals - that is the shortcoming of the individual and not a reflection of our mental capabilities. I'll quote Spiderman again, with power comes responsibility. The power to choose means you are responsible for making a bad choice, whereas an animal is not. You don't go out and try to forcefully mate with every sexy bitch you see because you make the choice not to even though your dick is telling you to bang everything in sight. Why? Well hopefully it's because you understand the pain you would bring to your victims, and so you deprive yourself of that sexual pleasure to spare them that pain. That is humanity. We may not be perfect or amazing, but we are above animals in the way that we can make decisions that aren't neessarily in our self-interest.

    Yeah, most people are worthless wretches (I love you nefarian) who are so goddamn self-centred they fail to see the mutual benefits of good conduct and will towards others, but everyone has the power to. If you fail to act properly, it's because you were too goddamned weak and selfish to make a good decision, not because you were bound by some human nature/animal instinct bullshit.

    Oh, and IB the inevitable lock, despite how interesting I find this topic, the fact that it's a slight deviation (I would call it a conversational development however - what a concept eh?) from the original topic dooms this thread to closure if this is kept up.
    Last edited by Tuvok; 2011-03-16 at 10:18 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Haldurion View Post
    How is his assumption wrong?

    And if our technology wasn't this advanced we'd be unable to f.ex. sustain as high population as we currently have. And if you really believed otherwise you wouldn't be sitting on a computer.

    We assume we are the most intellegent, but since we cannot communicate with our peers, we cannot hope to prove it. Chances are there are a great many species with more brains than us, and simply aren't telling us. At the very least, the beasts haven't managed to damage our ecosystem to anywhere near the degree we have. Seems pretty damned smart to me.

    Should we *BE* sustaining such a high population? I most certainly think not. In fact, were there about a 3rd of us around instead of the absurd amount we have now, much of our modern problems wouldn't even exist.

    And I never claimed to be Jesus. Yes, I'm using a computer. I'm a human. But in admitting this, I also admit I am an animal. It comes with the territory. We are not better then our peers, just different. Like cats, dogs, fish and birds are all animals.

    Or, if you would really like, I could refer to you as a vegetable. You'd have to be pretty brain dead to think a human somehow isn't an animal.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx View Post
    Blizzard is a conglomerate that through lower sub numbers has raised revenue. They're not stupid, they're just not catering to you.
    Yes yes, I know, the sky just bonked you on the head, casuals are taking over the government, and some baddie just got a raid drop... I think you'll live.

    http://darisdroppings.wordpress.com

  17. #57
    Wow.. the first topic on any forum where the Japan Earthquake wasn't blaimed as "Karma for Pearl harbour."

    USA and Europe panic whenever something as unexpected as a natural disaster occurs. Countries like Japan, New Sealand panic as well, but they get their shit together and start solving it. We (Europeans) and USA rather find someone to blaim and then bicker about it and leave the victims rotting somewhere.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    I wasn't going to say anything, but you've kind of got me hooked in now. If you really think this way, go out and rape the first attractive girl you see, it doesn't even matter if she's underage as long as she can bear a child. That's nature's biological imperative, and as an animal you have no control over your own actions. After that, murder your adversaries, and claim their wealth as your own.

    Enough of this cop out bullshit, where we try to shed the responsibility we have for our own actions with excuses like "we're animals" and the oh-so overused phrase of "human nature". You have the power of choice, and while people who make bad choices come across as animals - that is the shortcoming of the individual and not a reflection of our mental capabilities. I'll quote Spiderman again, with power comes responsibility. The power to choose means you are responsible for making a bad choice, whereas an animal is not. You don't go out and try to forcefully mate with every sexy bitch you see because you make the choice not to even though your dick is telling you to bang everything in sight. Why? Well hopefully it's because you understand the pain you would bring to your victims, and so you deprive yourself of that sexual pleasure to spare them that pain. That is humanity. We may not be perfect or amazing, but we are above animals in the way that we can make decisions that aren't neessarily in our self-interest.

    Yeah, most people are worthless wretches (I love you nefarian) who are so goddamn self-centred they fail to see the mutual benefits of good conduct and will towards others, but everyone has the power to. If you fail to act properly, it's because you were too goddamned weak and selfish to make a good decision, not because you were bound by some human nature/animal instinct bullshit.

    Oh, and IB the inevitable lock, despite how interesting I find this topic, the fact that it's a slight deviation (I would call it a conversational development however - what a concept eh?) from the original topic dooms this thread to closure if this is kept up.

    And now you go assuming that because I know I am an animal, I should act like a psychopath. Contrary to popular belief, animals in fact can control their behavior. We do it every day. Our pets do it every day. Even the wild animals do it every day.

    Just because they have a different set of social rules doesn't mean they don't follow them. It seems to be your definition of animal that is lacking.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx View Post
    Blizzard is a conglomerate that through lower sub numbers has raised revenue. They're not stupid, they're just not catering to you.
    Yes yes, I know, the sky just bonked you on the head, casuals are taking over the government, and some baddie just got a raid drop... I think you'll live.

    http://darisdroppings.wordpress.com

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Xpace View Post
    The Japanese trust their government. Americans don't.
    WHAT ? .....their are people on this planet who actually trust and place faith in those who govern them.
    Hell the only people I trust in this world is blood relatives and I have even found some of them to be undeserving.

    Even with such a philosophy I will still give a helping hand to any English speaking countryman who has no prior history of backstabbing me but as for the rest of the world I show indifference.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    WHAT ? .....their are people on this planet who actually trust and place faith in those who govern them.
    Hell the only people I trust in this world is blood relatives and I have even found some of them to be undeserving.

    Even with such a philosophy I will still give a helping hand to any English speaking countryman who has no prior history of backstabbing me but as for the rest of the world I show indifference.
    I refuse to draw my lines at "English speaking" and "countryman", as tho some how being born on one side of an imaginary line makes the people less worthy of care.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx View Post
    Blizzard is a conglomerate that through lower sub numbers has raised revenue. They're not stupid, they're just not catering to you.
    Yes yes, I know, the sky just bonked you on the head, casuals are taking over the government, and some baddie just got a raid drop... I think you'll live.

    http://darisdroppings.wordpress.com

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