2hFrostPVP Reforging for arenas and RBGs

[Deleted]

Here is my armory. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yrdus/advanced

What should i reforge, and in what priority order ?

[spitfirek]

Reforge into Matery for 2h frost pvp.

You should also get a little more spell pen, you need 195 to not get resisted.

[Deleted]

Reforge into Matery for 2h frost pvp.

You should also get a little more spell pen, you need 195 to not get resisted.

What stat should i remove/reforge into mastery ?

[Naxcis]

Although this is offtopic, you'd stand a much better chance in 3s of making progress faster and evenmoreso as UH. Just putting it out there.

And I'm guessing reforge out of haste?

[Roose]

Reforge into Matery for 2h frost pvp.

You should also get a little more spell pen, you need 195 to not get resisted.

All top DKs would say otherwise. Mastery may work out in BGs, but it is still haste for arenas at least until 4.1.

The real cap to never be resisted is 239 I believe for mages. Most just go for 220 though (cloak & 3 SP gems).

Get to 5% hit. Then reforge to haste. Do not worry about expertise.

Your spec will change for BGs and arena, but for both you want lichborne, endless winter, chillbains, and unholy command. It is not a pvp spec w/o them.

[lyxxx060]

Reforge into Matery for 2h frost pvp.

You should also get a little more spell pen, you need 195 to not get resisted.

Disregard that and reforge into Haste.

[Deleted]

well i love frost, been playing as unholy for a month and its just not me.

but haste it is....so i will reforge crit to haste....correct?! thanks

[spitfirek]

Haste is good for pve, not sure why ppl would say it is good in pvp also... how often are you going to actually be on a target long enough for haste to make a difference? Usually you are just going to get a hit or two in before they are out of range again. Hitting harder during those short bursts > hitting faster when you are able to train someone.

All my info comes from arenajunkies.com

[Roose]

Haste is good for pve, not sure why ppl would say it is good in pvp also... how often are you going to actually be on a target long enough for haste to make a difference? Usually you are just going to get a hit or two in before they are out of range again. Hitting harder during those short bursts > hitting faster when you are able to train someone.

All my info comes from arenajunkies.com

Any sources would be awesome. Of the rare frost DKs that I see on AJ, they are all reforging to haste.

I view it as you said, but it is just not what I see from the highest rankings.

[Erivaralol]

Reforge into Matery for 2h frost pvp.

You should also get a little more spell pen, you need 195 to not get resisted.

No, reforge for Haste.

Haste>Mastery, for Unholy and Frost.

[Rizendragon]

Haste is good for pve, not sure why ppl would say it is good in pvp also... how often are you going to actually be on a target long enough for haste to make a difference? Usually you are just going to get a hit or two in before they are out of range again. Hitting harder during those short bursts > hitting faster when you are able to train someone.

All my info comes from arenajunkies.com

I can see why it might still be better in PvP. You should be running in UH presence for 2H frost so you have a 1 second GCD. You also want your uptime on the target to be maximized and you want your runes back up asap. Seeing as Frost's main attack uses 2 runes instead of 1 like UH this is very dire. I know that RE procs help with this, but when RNG isn't on your side haste is a nice fall back. Your whites won't hit any softer when reforged for haste and KM procs should be used on OB devaluing crit a bit. So Haste > Mastery > Crit makes sense to me. Mastery only buffs FS FF and HB (you should have the HB glyph so IT isn't relevant) while haste (forgive the overused blizzard term) "lets you do more stuff more often."

As a side note - with Chillblains, root on CoI, and HC you have a ton of tools to keep targets in your range...

---------- Post added 2011-03-17 at 07:45 AM ----------

No, reforge for Haste.

Haste>Mastery, for Unholy and Frost.

this is only true for the 2H specs. if you want to go for DW it's mastery > crit > haste (i know this is a 2H thread, but just clarifying)

[Erivaralol]

I can see why it might still be better in PvP. You should be running in UH presence for 2H frost so you have a 1 second GCD. You also want your uptime on the target to be maximized and you want your runes back up asap. Seeing as Frost's main attack uses 2 runes instead of 1 like UH this is very dire. I know that RE procs help with this, but when RNG isn't on your side haste is a nice fall back. Your whites won't hit any softer when reforged for haste and KM procs should be used on OB devaluing crit a bit. So Haste > Mastery > Crit makes sense to me. Mastery only buffs FS FF and HB (you should have the HB glyph so IT isn't relevant) while haste (forgive the overused blizzard term) "lets you do more stuff more often."

As a side note - with Chillblains, root on CoI, and HC you have a ton of tools to keep targets in your range...

---------- Post added 2011-03-17 at 07:45 AM ----------



this is only true for the 2H specs. if you want to go for DW it's mastery > crit > haste (i know this is a 2H thread, but just clarifying)

definitely, not sure why anyone would do DW for pvp though tbh

[epLe]

Not a single good point backing up why haste > mastery for frost PvP 2h.

Those 2 stats is close, but whats better is highly debatable, what's certain though is that resilience, hit, spell penetration & strength is more important than both.

But as you pvp in uh presence, you get gcd capped, and have increased rune regen without haste.
In addition from talents you gain alot of haste. (~50%)

This really devalue what you gain from reforging into haste, and by all theorycrafts mastery will give you a higher dps increase by the point.

Snatched from AJ, Frost stat prio : Hit Rating (to cap)-> Spell Penetration (to 195)-> Strength-> Mastery-> Haste Rating-> Critical Strike Rating-> Expertise.

[lyxxx060]

@epLe

I can see why it might still be better in PvP. You should be running in UH presence for 2H frost so you have a 1 second GCD. You also want your uptime on the target to be maximized and you want your runes back up asap. Seeing as Frost's main attack uses 2 runes instead of 1 like UH this is very dire. I know that RE procs help with this, but when RNG isn't on your side haste is a nice fall back. Your whites won't hit any softer when reforged for haste and KM procs should be used on OB devaluing crit a bit. So Haste > Mastery > Crit makes sense to me. Mastery only buffs FS FF and HB (you should have the HB glyph so IT isn't relevant) while haste (forgive the overused blizzard term) "lets you do more stuff more often."

As a side note - with Chillblains, root on CoI, and HC you have a ton of tools to keep targets in your range...[COLOR="red"]

Hows that not a good enough reason? Go look at every top ladder team that has a frost player and they are reforging to haste. Haste benefits more due to every skill being useful. It's simple common sense since mastery only buffs FROST STRIKE, which if you think about it should be your 2nd priority to Obliterate with a KM proc. Mastery should only become a priority if you are a DW Frost PvE DK otherwise for 2H it still is always going to be str>hit>haste>mastery. Remember, you are using a 2H not 2 1H's. Even in PvE 2H Haste still edges out Mastery in all heroic gear but barely. I say stick with the one that gives you the edge.

[epLe]

Im saying Haste vs Mastery is still very debatable, based on : http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/17...sion-season-9/
Most 2h frosties still probably stack haste as they have been gearing for UH aswell.

i.e qoute (Gatesz #35) "Str->haste is only for unholy, str->master is the preference for frost."

Due to all the haste you get from uh presence(+ Imp Icy talons) you hardly get what you would expect from another few % from gear.
This is abit like the devaluing of crit when talents give you more than 50% crit. (albeit not to the same extent)


Just an example of a 2.9k rated 2h frost dk stacking mastery : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../ufal/advanced

Both Haste and Mastery is good, and its easier to argument for haste as it gives a multitude of effects in general.

[spitfirek]

AH, I think I see why ppl are saying haste is better... currently it looks like the haste bonus from presence and/or talents are not added correctly. I reforged out of haste as much as possible, I have 0.66% haste from gear. w/o Unholy Presence on I have 39.51% haste(it should be 35.66% haste, 0.66% from gear + 20% from Icy + 15% from imp Icy), with Unholy Presence on I have 53.46% haste(it should be 45.66%, 0.66% from gear +20% from Icy +15% from Imp Icy + 10% from presence).

Im not sure how the Icy Talons is calculated... nothing I can think of works out to those numbers.

The bonus 10% from unholy presence is actually getting calculated twice, both additive AND multiplicative. 39.51 x 1.1 = 43.46 + 10 = 53.46. This could just be a bug in the character sheet. If it is actually the way it is calculated though it greatly over values haste, as each point is actually worth MUCH more.

With 4.1 mastery will be more valuable than it is currently as our frost damage attacked are getting a buff... and if blizzard ever figures out that they screwed up on the haste calculations that will probably make mastery much more appealing than haste.

[harky]

You want Haste and Mastery after Hit cap. You can basically ignore Expertise altogether. Crit is okay, but not great.

Also going for 239 Spell Pen is pretty pointless. It only helps against Mages and the benefit is pretty small as Frost resistance doesn't work against Frost Strike as far as I know. So it's 10% off FF, which does very low damage and 10% off HB which you'll only be casting on Rime. Not all that useful. If they're in Mage Armor... well, enjoy the Obliterates. Really if you want to go for the hard cap on spell pen that's 434 anyway. After all you need to get your full damage against Mages during an AM Resistance aura, right?

[Roose]

Im saying Haste vs Mastery is still very debatable, based on : http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/17...sion-season-9/
Most 2h frosties still probably stack haste as they have been gearing for UH aswell.

i.e qoute (Gatesz #35) "Str->haste is only for unholy, str->master is the preference for frost."

Due to all the haste you get from uh presence(+ Imp Icy talons) you hardly get what you would expect from another few % from gear.
This is abit like the devaluing of crit when talents give you more than 50% crit. (albeit not to the same extent)


Just an example of a 2.9k rated 2h frost dk stacking mastery : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../ufal/advanced

Both Haste and Mastery is good, and its easier to argument for haste as it gives a multitude of effects in general.

I may be wrong, but it looks like that is a BG build. No imp strangulate and they took pale horse. Mastery is better for BGs. From what I have seen, a lot of the top DKs do have a frost spec but it is more geared towards BGs. The ones that I see with a pure arena build have haste. In BGs, I always have RP overflow. Not the case in arena.

The difference is not very noticeable at this gear level and I think that we can all agree that mastery will be preferred come 4.1.