Shadow AoE Suggestion

[Deleted]

I haven't played shadow for very long. I'm relativley new the spec as a whole but I understand it very well. I have had a history playing Elemental Shaman's, Doomchicken, Kitty and more recently Fury Warrior.

Overall the spec is in a very goosd place at the moment. We deal competetive DPS (although having to blow a warlock for Dark Intent isn't my favourite thing), fights such as Nefarians End, Al'Akir and Valiona and Theralion are simply god-like for Shadow. However, the are certain fights in game that I am finding most distressing.

These fights are fights like Cho'Gall or Maloriak. Were you HAVE to AoE. In easier fights such as Magmaw you can get away with not AoE'ing (only 1 of our spells has an animation that shows what target your targetting olol) but on fights such as Maloriak where you have a set time to kill a lot of adds it's becoming clear to me that Shadow needs an AoE boost. On Maloriak tonight, I had the option of: 1. Mind Sear spam the tank (very poor DPS) or 2. take 10 seconds out of MB/MF on Maloriak and start to cast DoT's (VT&SW:P) on as many adds as possible and then Mind Sear spam causing me to then take more time out of my movement rotation using Dispersion until I am in place then canceling it.

I don't know where I would like to see this, but personally I think its horrible to see; for example Fire Mages (Another DoT spec, although not so much) with a chance to proc an ability/effect that allows them to spread dots giving them 40-50k DPS for the add phase while maintaining a solid DPS single target. I don't know wether mind sear needs a damage buff or wether we need an ability that allows us to spread DoT's or even something completely original which is what I am suggesting.

I would suggest something along the lines of:

Bewitching Shadows
3sec cast
1minuite Cooldown
<Mana Cost Debatable>
You begin muttering words of unspeakable evil, casing all targets within a 15 yard radius of your target to gain Shadow Word: Pain for full duration. Also increases the chance to proc a Shadowy Appartition by 25% and increases the number of Shadowy Apparitions able to be up at one time to 10 for 15 seconds.

To explain this, we could target a mob which is in close proximity of other mobs and cast this. Then we could target swap and Mind Sear the tank if it's really needed to be burnt, or continue to DPS the boss as normal. We could then have up to 10 shadowy apparitions up at any one time and not having to move to proc them meaning we can continue to cast our painfully underpowered AoE ability. Most Shadow's are currently DoT'ing adds when appropriate, otherwise we have basically no AoE. Also, without this burst, Mind Sear can oom you quickly, which in turn forces you to use your mana batteries (SW or Dispersion) both of which are DPS losses.

This is similar to a warlocks soulsharded SoC I know but I feel it is the most appropriate. This would give us a nice ability to help on AoE burn phases which we currently didn't have. Also, it would make the 4piece teir bonus more attractive as currently on a movement heavy fight Shadowy Appartions are dealing about 5% of my total damage.

Anyhoo, discuss please. Any suggestions or improvements or even your own ideas. I just feel that "buff this abilites damage" is not the way forward.

[Vook]

Or...

Mind Sear damage has been doubled.

Just go with what Blizz is doing already in 4.1?

Too many classes have the whole "spread dots" thing, it's...getting kinda old.

[Deleted]

Or, we could try to be original instead of just buffing spells. I'd still DoT adds, which in my opinion would make shadow AoE too OP. With DoT's and a newly doubled Mind Sear we would hurt.

A spell like I suggested would make our AoE more bursty, which would be better suited to current raid content. I can't think of a fight where you have to AoE constantly. Plus, I still think we need a AoE CD. AA and SF are useless for this. I am yet to think of a class/spec that doesn't have a CD that buffs their AoE. Maybe not by buffing the damage of their AoE but certainly an ability that is used outside of their "normal" AoE to add that extra bit of damage.

If you could suggest something that would be a AoE cooldown that isn't spread DoT's I would be more than happy to hear it

[Deleted]

mind sear learnable at level 30 and redesigned: no longer channeled, no longer usable on friendly targets. when cast on an enemy target, every enemy target within 10 yards takes damage equal to half of 1 tick of every shadow damage over time effect on the original target every time a damage over time effect ticks and halfway between ticks. these ticks can trigger shadowy apparitions, but only 1 apparition can be active per affected target at any given time, overriding the 4 apparition limit if more apparitions would appear. targets that are damaged by mindsear cannot be targeted by any damage over time debuffs from the casting priest (but mind flay, mind spike, shadow word: death and mind blast are eligible). this effect is magic dispellable and lasts for 10 seconds.

mind melt redesigned: in addition to its current effect, this talent also allows mind sear to spread 25/50% of your mind spike, mind flay and mind blast damage to nearby targets.

examples: assume your shadow word: pain does 2000 damage every 2.5 seconds, your devouring plague 3000 every 2.5 seconds and your vampiric touch for 4000 every 2.5 seconds (numbers might be a bit low, but just for explanation). you have 9 targets clumped up (say halfus and his 8 whelps). you throw your 3 DoTs on halfus: SW:P at 0, DP at 1:5, VT at 3. then you throw mind sear on halfus. what happens then is that every whelp within 8 yards of halfus (and any drakes up) take 1K damage every 1.25 seconds from SW:P, 1.5K every 1.25 seconds from DP and 2K every 1.25 seconds from vampiric touch, but without the debuffs on them. in addition, every one of these ticks have a 12% base chance to trigger an apparition.

FAQ:
Q: isn't this tremendously OP DPS wise?
remember that fire mages have something similar, where they have flame strike, living bomb, the pyroblast DoT, ignite and possibly combustion that they can spread to nearby targets. and even if this would provide too much DPS, the numbers are easily tweaked. you can, for example, tweak what DoTs are affected, how often the ticks happen and the damage of the ticks themselves.

Q: does this mean we have a rampup time for our AoE?
every class has some sort of a rampup time for AoE and for burst. ours might be longer than others, but the only place where that rampup time actually poses is cho'gall and possibly magmaw, and on those bosses, you can use mind spike and mind blast. on all other bosses, you can nearly always apply your DoT's before you need to AoE them down. knowing when you will need to apply your DoT's and when to use mind sear will be the mark of a good shadowpriest.
bosses with AoE and how to work this in:
halfus: throw your DoTs on halfus, apply mind sear when the whelps are active.
cho'gall: mind sear on an add, then mind spike and mind blast.
magmaw: same as cho'gall, mind sear on a parasite and than mind spike and mind blast.
maloriak: most guilds tank maloriak right next to the adds on green phase, so he takes damage alongside the adds. you can safely keep your DoTs on maloriak.

none of the other bosses have an AoE phase.

Q) what about AoE trash? what about heroics?
you're concerned about your trash and heroic DPS? also, on most trash, if you are AoE'ing, you're doing it wrong.

so, what do you think about it?

[Deleted]

i like it very much! It will be like the new ele shammy aoe changes to fire nova. Post it on official forum as well if you havent done it yet!

[Deleted]

the problem is that if some classes have shitty AoE, taking them on bosses where AoE is vital (like maloriak, cho'gall, halfus or magmaw) is a liability. why should you take a shadowpriest if a fire mage has just as high DPS, but higher AoE damage?

[Deleted]

the problem is that if some classes have shitty AoE, taking them on bosses where AoE is vital (like maloriak, cho'gall, halfus or magmaw) is a liability. why should you take a shadowpriest if a fire mage has just as high DPS, but higher AoE damage?

I was going to reply something similar. Blizzard is sticking to bring the player not the class so this change would be in line with that.

[Deleted]

thread has been created on the EU forums, at http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1874669475

[Brusalk]

You might want to simplify that tooltip a tad. Hard to read through the first time. I didn't actually get what you meant until I started reading the example.


Example Simplification:
Mind Sear: Spreads all active DoTs applied by the caster to all enemies within 10 yards of the target for 10 seconds each ticking twice as fast as the original DoT.

Mind Melt: Mind Sear also takes into account 25/50% of all direct damage spells cast by the shadow priest.

Shadowy Apparitions: In addition to its current effect, Mind Sear now has a chance to trigger Shadowy Apparitions and the maximum number of Shadowy Apparitions is limited to the number of enemy targets affected by Mind Sear with a minimum of 4.

[Deleted]

Mind Sear - While channeling on the target, all enemy targets within 10 yards take shadow damage equal to 50% of the periodic damage taken by the primary target.

Could work ^^

[Deleted]

Mind Sear - While channeling on the target, all enemy targets within 10 yards take shadow damage equal to 50% of the periodic damage taken by the primary target.

Could work ^^

this incarnation is not a channel. it's a magic dispellable debuff on the target.

You might want to simplify that tooltip a tad. Hard to read through the first time. I didn't actually get what you meant until I started reading the example.


Example Simplification:
Mind Sear: Spreads all active DoTs applied by the caster to all enemies within 10 yards of the target for 10 seconds each ticking twice as fast as the original DoT.

Mind Melt: Mind Sear also takes into account 25/50% of all direct damage spells cast by the shadow priest.

Shadowy Apparitions: In addition to its current effect, Mind Sear now has a chance to trigger Shadowy Apparitions and the maximum number of Shadowy Apparitions is limited to the number of enemy targets affected by Mind Sear with a minimum of 4.

it doesn't spread DoTs. that's the point, else it's just a modified pestilence. basically, you throw your DoTs on the main target (if there is one), and then the mind sear debuff, and then you get free damage procs every DoT tick and halfway between ticks, on all targets within 10 yards, for 10 seconds.
also, shadowy apparitions triggered by mind sear don't have a minimum amount of 4. if you're unlucky, you'll only proc 2 or 3. remember that the apparition trigger chance for the ticks isn't affected by movement.

[Deleted]

I get that your idea isn't a channel, but that kind of shit is just fire-and-forget passive aoe, which is boring.

Also, why would you make it tick every half-tick for damage too? There is no real benefit except reducing extremely short term burst and it makes the whole thing a hell of a lot more complicated to explain.

[Kelesti]

Mind Sear - While channeling on the target, all enemy targets within 10 yards take shadow damage equal to 50% of the periodic damage taken by the primary target.

Could work ^^

Too complicated and having a startup for AoE.

Having to wind up a fell setup of DoTs to actually do decent Area Effect damage on things that you're AoE'ing and not single-target kinda goes against the point, doesn't it? I mean, they're supposed to be dying. What happens when you're fully DoT'd up add dies? It's worse than the current Mind Sear, because you can't just target someone else and begin anew.

And the problem, with your idea, nzall, is that your damage becomes balanced around that multi-target ability. Blizzard doesn't like AoE abilities to be used in a single-target rotation, or even Wandering Plague, because the second you start having multiple adds damage skyrockets. Under Wrath, no one cared, but this would basically cause shadow's single target to be nerfed, simply because they're now an "AoE spec", and hypothetically if targets lived long enough they could do big damage (which never happens).

But you're also trying to balance single target abilities into an AoE rotation, and the justification it's not "OP" is that fire mages have a bunch of multi-target tools? You're going to have to try better than that.

[Kalti]

What about... wait for it... make mind sear do more damage?

[Ieft]

What about... wait for it... make mind sear do more damage?

Already coming! Anyone know what the numbers from ptr are?

[Icecx]

IMO give us Black Hole and Shadow Crash.

[MoanaLisa]

Pardon me for being a bit contrary but I think I'd prefer to still get Shadowform at 30(ish).

[Siri]

Personally I like it the way it is, mind sear just blows damage wise, which is hopefully being decently rectified in 4.1

[Töasty]

What about... wait for it... make mind sear do more damage?

LOL, I chuckled. Seriously, we don't need some crazy 5 step mechanic that requires all this crap ahead of time just to do decent AoE. That's exactly what I hate about my fire mage, if I want to do serious AoE I have to make sure I have Living Bomb up on the main target, have a pyroblast dot, an ignite dot, and just happen to have impact proc, so I can pop combustion and fire blast to spread the combustion.

Just buff Mind Sear's damage, otherwise leave it a lone. I like being able to cast it on the tank. The only cool thing they could do with mind sear would be to allow us to cast it while moving, and make it hit harder on targets affected by shadow word pain. Basically you tab dot shadow word pain, and pop mind sear and run around like a madman while your shadow apparitions wreck havoc.

[Zeuq]

As Kelesti points out, I think it would cause some serious balance issues. AOE damage needs to be distinct from single-target damage, or else Shadow Priests will either be highly desired in some fights, or nerfed to compensate, and thus making them worthless in fights that don't make use of it.

That said, I do think some kind of a void zone would make for an interesting mechanic. Give it a cooldown, make only one possible at a time, or make it some kind of a deliberate proc (eg, Eflorescence), and have its actual damage be fairly low (akin to the ground-based AOE heals), and instead make it slow movement slightly or something. Still sounds difficult to balance, so it's more just a "neat idea" sort of thing; not worth holding my breath for.