Sinestra 10man?

[Deleted]

Yeah, aside clueless also hypocrit. Obvious troll as others have said before I'm done getting baited.

Running out of arguements so you decide to call me a troll? I should call YOU a troll.

Troll

[Kakera]

Just responding to him to let him know that the people that actually know what they are talking about know he's a moron. Not responding to him anymore. Moving on.

[Deleted]

I love when people refrain from answering but instead continue to go with the "I am right, you are wrong, mummy told me strategy" But I guess you are welcome.

[Chob]

Running out of arguements so you decide to call me a troll? I should call YOU a troll.

Troll

No, you ignore arguments which makes arguing with you completely pointless, and you're also using arguments that apply just as much the other way around, in other words everything you say has exactly no meaning whatsoever.

But damn you caught me, I responded to you again I promise I won't make the same mistake again.

[Deleted]

But damn you caught me, I responded to you again I promise I won't make the same mistake again.

Calling me a troll again? How amusing, I have no intention to troll this or anything, if you are going to completely ignore me because I have a DIFFERENT OPINION than you, and therefore you instead of discussing; accuse me of trolling, flaming etc you can just go ahead, I don't want to discuss with people constantly calling me troll just like this would be some kindergarden fight.

Also, the "Mummy told me I'm right tactic" again, how flawless.

Grow up, grow a pair will you

[Chob]

Must... resist....


Ahhh succesfully ignored!

[Deleted]

Just like a communist, only your opinion counts and others are nothing, but hey there you go.

Also, reported for going offtopic and harassing in multiple posts.

[Nyanmaru]

Can we now get back to a more serious discussion here?

[Téuntjûh]

Noone said 10m normals are OMFGHARD. One said they are mostly harder than 25man normals. Which is true.

I lolled....

[Deleted]

I myself have not tried Sinestra (on any raid setting) but from what I understand about the Wrack debuff which seems to be the problem on the 10man version of the fight. Wouldn't it be viable of blizzard made it so it does less damage for each increasing tick, therefore taking longer to hit an "unhealable" point. So say now you delay the first by 20 seconds then 15, 10 etc. but with a nerf you could wait until 30-40 seconds.
This would solve Raid cooldown problems, like Hand of Sacrifice being far more effective on the first. It would solve the need for a mass amount of dispellers, and you would not have your whole raid covered in Wrack, much like 25man.

[Paskgotsheal]

Can we now get back to a more serious discussion here?

Done

Fix wrack. It shouldn't be doing the same damage when you have 15 less people to spread it to. You HAVE to let the first wrack go for 20 seconds to have a chance. We through a hand of sac and personal CD (if it's our Mage or preist they get a GS)

Do you know how much wrack hits for at 20 stacks? Over 110k before resists. It's ridiculous. But you have to because you don't have 16 people to spread it to, you have 8 (using the 1-2-4-8-16 method of counting since that's how it spreads.)

I don't mind there being 2 orbs on both difficulties even if it takes 2.5x as many raid members out. I just can't stand wrack and how it doesn't work with 10 like it does with 25

[MestHoop]

I myself have not tried Sinestra (on any raid setting) but from what I understand about the Wrack debuff which seems to be the problem on the 10man version of the fight. Wouldn't it be viable of blizzard made it so it does less damage for each increasing tick, therefore taking longer to hit an "unhealable" point. So say now you delay the first by 20 seconds then 15, 10 etc. but with a nerf you could wait until 30-40 seconds.
This would solve Raid cooldown problems, like Hand of Sacrifice being far more effective on the first. It would solve the need for a mass amount of dispellers, and you would not have your whole raid covered in Wrack, much like 25man.

That sounds like the original intent for 10 mans IMO XD
The fun thing is, if this fight doesn't change in 4.1 or before that it actually becomes harder for 10 mans (spriest lose defensive dispel magic, which is what some of the korean guilds used to down her).

[Paskgotsheal]

That sounds like the original intent for 10 mans IMO XD
The fun thing is, if this fight doesn't change in 4.1 or before that it actually becomes harder for 10 mans (spriest lose defensive dispel magic, which is what some of the korean guilds used to down her).

Every guild has had a spriest for their kill.

[Chob]

Can we now get back to a more serious discussion here?

Thank you.

On the topic: As I've stated before, the fight needs to be tuned but I hope they don't 'overtune' it like they've done with valiona. I think the Wrack mechanic needs looking at, probably the only thing really but my opinion isn't worth that much since I haven't tried the fight myself. I only go by video's and what I've read from others.

[Tankor]

About the whole 10 vs 25 man tuning, there is no arguing that some/a lot of the 10 man heroic encounters were very poorly tuned/broken compared to their 25 man counterparts. After the first round of fixes it was all pretty much fine. The second round just made everything easier, but a lot of these changes weren't 10 man exclusive so who cares. Right at this moment 10 man and 25 man heroics are probably as evenly tuned as you will get them for someone starting heroic mode progress (no one cares how easy it is for people that already had it on farm before any changes). Some people are indeed overstating the difficulty of 10 man and blaming it too much on tuning when in fact it's most likely just poor play or not much effort put into it. It was bad, it's fine now. Let's hope they put just an ounce of effort into having 10 mans be close to properly tuned for 4.2.

Now about the whole korean ordeal. Koreans put as much effort and time into 10 mans as the most hardcore 25 mans do (we're talking 12 hour span between boss kills on the same day). Despite this, they barely managed to get a top 50 world ranking this tier (49). This, coupled with the fact that Ensidia started out raiding 10 man heroics for progress and falling behind before changing to 25 man and ending up with a world 3 rank, should tell you something.

Now for the on topic part of my post; Sinestra.
If it was possible to actually control the p2->p3 transition, I'd say Sinestra is perfectly fine on 10 man. Sure it's hard, but what did everyone expect. Wrack is certainly harder to deal with in 10 man than in 25 (don't even try to say otherwise), but it's nothing impossible. The biggest problem for us (except for the random dumbass wipes to orbs) is to survive a full wrack without the 100% haste, infinite mana buff. This is obviously easier in 25 man, as you have more raid cooldowns to use (aura mastery every breath, barriers/tranqs/hymns for the end of wrack, being able to actually dispel the tanks without getting your entire raid get wrack too fast etc), but shouldn't be impossible in 10 man. It's just by far the hardest/most tightly tuned (dps and healing wise) boss of the tier.

The thing that annoys me the most about Sinestra is the seemingly random drake/spitecaller spawning times from try to try. You can have them come down at the exact same time or they can spawn 20 seconds apart. Couple that with the shields of the eggs breaking in 5 seconds or 20 seconds doing the exact same thing and you have a very random p2->p3 transition. You can have Sinestra on 96% when you get the buff or she can be on 99% 5-10 seconds into the buff even though you're doing the exact same thing in p1 and p2 on both tries.

With that being said, I'm fairly confident we would've killed Sinestra this reset if we'd been able to raid 5 days a week since we killed Cho'gall compared to the 2-3 days a week we've been able to raid the past 2-3 weeks. Our best try so far is 13% with a semi-good p2->p3 transition (we get a perfect transition 1 in every 20 pulls or so, and it seems impossible to do something about) and we wiped due to wrack because the haste/mana buff had run out at around 28-29%. We're going 3 healers, if we keep getting ~10% wipes we'll try 2 healers, but it really seems doable with 3 (koreans killing it with 3 healers supports this I guess).

[ekardnah]

Natalis, Cenarius-KR killed 10 man Sinestra and uploaded WoL log.

By some error it is categorized to 25 man.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/3hf5n...=13687&e=14052

They are fifth in 10 man, because Stars and In extremis of Norgannon-KR killed it on a 25 man GDKP.

[KaPe]

Funny thing about Wrack is that they already had very similar mechanic in WotLK (hell, in TBC) and it was treated differently in 10 man. Sure, Unbound Plague didn't split in two after dispeling, but it did less damage in 10 man, so you could afford to dispel it few seconds later. With Wrack being more punishing after dispel, these "few seconds" would add up much better.